The "Striker vs Wrestler" Narrative Always Ends The Same Way

[tramendous]

The convenient switching between the words "grappler" and "wrestler" is convenient. Vettori is clearly not a wrestler, but if you frame it as "grappler", he's probably still not that but he's closer to that. While Volk is actually a wrestler and Ortega is a grappler, so Volk winning is not sur.


The rules are already wildly discriminatory against wrestlers so no, this is not necessary.

There are no (1) knees to a downed opponent, (2) 12-6 elbows, (3) headbutts, (4) targeted head slams, (5) strikes to the back of the head.

If the rules were actually fair, it would be closer to "Ultimate Wrestling Championship" than it is today.

I dont agree but even if true (huge if true? Lol) At least wrestlers would be way more exciting. There are some rules that favor wrestling like having a cage to pin someone against, the top control bias, no upkicks to down opponent, no royce gracie style heel kicks to the kidney when theyre in your guard. No knees or kicks to downed opponent when they mess up a takedown.

 

[TheTickG]

But that's why we watch MMA
For the chance of that 1 out of 10

This thread got knocked out faster than Askren.

 

[tramendous]

If this fight was scored as a boxing (or Kick-boxing) contest...Colby would still be the winner.

Too many points taken away for clinching lol

 

[GeneTunney7]

A bit hyperbolic, but I hear your point. It is more about the level of the striker and wrestler - for example, Izzy is one of the best strikers in MMA ever and Brunson is a very mid wrestler, where as Colby is an incredibly complete fighter/world champion no gi grappler (should be the champ and #1 p4p in many people's eyes) and Masvidal is essentially Artem Lobov of welterweight. The sport is much more well rounded than it once was and there are not really many one dimensional guys anymore, but wrestling is so important as it allows you to take the fight to a place of low risk/high reward (hence Khamzat getting hit by one punch in 4 fights).

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Who the hell was excited?

In my Tap picks I will always take the wrestler for that type of fight. Especially if they have any chin at all.

I actually nailed all 5 main card fights last night with the last 4 being perfect picks. I saw all of the last 3 fights going the distance with a clear winner in each fight. It’s not a perfect system or I’d gamble on this shit show.

But did anybody pick those last 3 fights wrong?

 

[bowened]

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Five main events within the past year say otherwise

Volk is just as good of a grappler as Ortega tho.

 

[gspieler]

Hughes was toast by that fight. He outwrestled BJ in their 2nd and got submitted in their 1st, which are both more more telling.

He got subbed in the first fight because he got dropped with a punch first. BJ was winning the second fight too, with mostly striking, up until the 3rd round IIRC.

 

[StonedLemur]

Because we might also be rooting for the grappler?

That never crossed his mind for sure.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

The convenient switching between the words "grappler" and "wrestler" is convenient. Vettori is clearly not a wrestler, but if you frame it as "grappler", he's probably still not that but he's closer to that. While Volk is actually a wrestler and Ortega is a grappler, so Volk winning is not sur.


The rules are already wildly discriminatory against wrestlers so no, this is not necessary.

There are no (1) knees to a downed opponent, (2) 12-6 elbows, (3) headbutts, (4) targeted head slams, (5) strikes to the back of the head.

If the rules were actually fair, it would be closer to "Ultimate Wrestling Championship" than it is today.

Those rules just sound designed to prevent very serious injury, I don't see why it's discriminatory to wrestlers that you're not allowed to crack someone's head open like a walnut.

 

[JKS]

For every time a example is brought up of a wrestler beating a striker, you can contradict that with the an example of a striker beating a wrestler. So no, it doesn't always end up the same way. To get a conclusive idea of this you'd have to take a span of a 3 years and count all the match up results.

From what I gather, it's usually 50/50.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

McGregor vs Mendes

Izzy vs Brunson

Ortega vs Holloway

WB vs Hendricks

 

[kenji goh]

That's why Aldo is the goat. An exceptional striker who wrestlers couldn't put his game off like they do with Street Jesus.
Yan follows on his steps and he's more or less equally skilled with peak Aldo.

 

[HeDidn'tWantTheFight]

Volk is just as good of a grappler as Ortega tho.

Comparing their grappling is kind of apples and oranges since he's more of a wrestler and Ortega's a submission artist, but in terms of their fighting identities, Volk's known for his acumen on the feet, and Ortega's known for the danger he presents on the ground.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

I dont agree but even if true (huge if true? Lol) At least wrestlers would be way more exciting. There are some rules that favor wrestling like having a cage to pin someone against, the top control bias, no upkicks to down opponent, no royce gracie style heel kicks to the kidney when theyre in your guard. No knees or kicks to downed opponent when they mess up a takedown.

Having a cage is not weird though. Unless you live in the countryside, there are walls everywhere.

Most of these things you're mentioning arent really relevant. Upkicks to a downed opponent require a lot of space between you and your opponent, space that you wouldn't get in 99.9% of ground situations.

 

[Post 2 Decision]

Selective memory

Just the other week we saw Said Nurmagomedov starch Matt Stamann

 

[WhosTheBoss]

Izzy vs Vettori and Brunson. Cannonier vs Brunson. Martins vs Makhachev, Rumble vs Bader, Rumble vs Glover, Conor vs Mendes, Silva vs Sonnen, Aldo vs every wrestler he's ever fought, Ngannou vs Cain, Ngannou vs Stipe 2 , Wonderboy vs Hendricks, Joanna vs Esparza, Lawler vs Hendricks 2 and so on and so forth. Not even trying to think here, I could name hundreds more probably if you want me to.

I want 100 more.

 

[dmwalking]

...with the striker getting grapple-fucked

why do we continue to get excited for these matchups?

unless that striker pulls some miracle out of his ass (like Anderson against Sonnen), the striker loses 9 times out of 10

wolf tickets bro <{chips}>

Always? How long have you been watching MMA? LMAO

 

[Blayt7hh]

Five main events within the past year say otherwise

/thread

 

[Snowblindlove]

...with the striker getting grapple-fucked

why do we continue to get excited for these matchups?

unless that striker pulls some miracle out of his ass (like Anderson against Sonnen), the striker loses 9 times out of 10

wolf tickets bro <{chips}>

The strikers who do well have 1 thing in common (an amazing clinch game) Anderson, Adesanya, Overeem, Gane, if a striker has a solid clinch game he can neutralize often the clinch of judo guys, or greco roman style takedowns. Where the striker will struggle is the sprawl, and in freestyle type takedowns.

In the case of Overeem though becoming big and heavy and strong and years of grappling made him near impossible once he was Ubereem to take him down. Lesnar couldnt for god sake nor could Big Foot or Werdum. Out of prime shot Reem did lose to Blaydes but that wasnt a prime. Similarly Anderson later developed improved takedown defense but early on and mid term in his career his main counter to the grappling was footwork and clinch work. The clinch saved him from many takedowns he got Hendo in the clinch.

In addition, if full knees to the head were allowed, soccer kicks, and strikes to the back of the head were legal then it would do a lot to neutralize grapplers. For example when working a takedown against the cage against an opponent the back of your head is exposed in the days of value tudo with no rules minus biting and eye gouging, you would see opponents get KO or harmed much more easily from back of the head strikes I recall Wanderlei doing this a few times. For instance Colby had many takedowns last night he had to work against Jorge but Jorge if he was allowed could of slammed his elbow down on Colby´s back of the neck and soft part of the head and it would of KO Colby. Similarly during scrambles that grapplers fail takedowns they often leave themselves exposed to a knee or soccer kick not allowing knees to the head is the biggest fault.

At minimum we need full knees to head, 12 to 6 elbows, and upkicks. Upkicks will make the guard more dangerous for the person in someones guard. 12 to 6 elbows can better be utilized against the head of a grappler or a grappler on top of an opponent. And full knees to head are the best for strikers or someone scrambling similarly a grappler who gains north south can win with it easily.