Economy The US has given Zelensky's govt $129 million PER DAY since the war started !

[7even]

That's true that not everything is old, but a lot of it is. The Bradleys, Strykers and transport vehicles are all old. The Abrams tanks are not the most upgraded newer versions.

And we have not pledged any F-16's to them yet.

My whole point is the "We're sending them 129 million per day!" is completely false.

I don’t think it is. The Annual GDP of Ukraine is much higher than that before the War. They need money to support their government and infrastructure. It’s Russia that is playing the long game, not Ukraine.

 

[AWilder]

So, the billions in financial aid was just lying around and was about to be scrapped?

literally yes.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Give him everything he wants, apparently.

Also, that same guy said this:



So you know...

Yeah all that's true. And?

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

I don’t think it is. The Annual GDP of Ukraine is much higher than that before the War. They need money to support their government and infrastructure. It’s Russia that is playing the long game, not Ukraine.

The Ukrainian government is literally selling their farmland out from under it's farmers who are currently on the front lines getting their legs blown off.

The Ukranian people might be the 'good guys' in all this even though a lot of them are actual Nazis, but their corrupt government, our MIC and our investment capital firms stealing their land are certainly not.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

jeez fcuking christ turn off the TVs folks. This is more of the neocons same old "we need more wars for peace" bullshit propaganda

If we kill everyone first, there will be no one left left for the Chinese and Russians to kill.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Good deal, we gave Afghanistan $300 daily over 21 years. So this is much less and a better investment in regional security.

A 'better investment' than what? We literally failed in Afghanistan and only managed to get a shit load of people killed and actually ended up arming our ENEMIES.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

You missed only one thing there, dude.

Russians are getting decimated. Russian people, many conscripted, are dying face down in the muck on foreign soil.

Why did you omit that detail? It's one thing saying "Russian citizens are losing", but fair's fair. They're getting fucked just as bad as any Ukrainian.

The crazy thing is you think that's a positive.

You're not just utterly clueless politically, you're also a psychopath.

 

[7even]

The Ukrainian government is literally selling their farmland out from under it's farmers who are currently on the front lines getting their legs blown off.

The Ukranian people might be the 'good guys' in all this even though a lot of them are actual Nazis, but their corrupt government, our MIC and our investment capital firms stealing their land are certainly not.

The American government are opportunists than altruists. I sometimes wonder why we continue to fund Israel’s military with billions of American taxpayers money when that small country has a very high GDP for such a small country. They can afford to support themselves now.

 

[Fluffernutter]

I saw this thread yesterday and assumed it would be merged

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Isn't it strange that the supporters of the President that was the knowing, willing, and sole benefactor of Russian election interference (mainly through targeted propaganda) also support Russia's war of aggression.

It's almost like they were subverted by Russian propaganda or something like we said they were.

Straw men like this only serve to reveal that you don't actually believe the shit you are saying deep down.

 

[BForrester]

Pretty simple....You take a city that is under financial distress with a severe homeless problem of its own. Then you add in 100k plus migrants that have crossed the border illegally. They have nothing but the clothes on their backs. They get food, shelter, medical care. They empty prisons because of the cost to house and feed inmates. So why wouldn't a Migrant have the same? And we pay for the transportation, the security, the revamping of facilities to house them. Not to mention using Hotels like The Roosevelt in the middle of NYC. NONE of this was budgeted for. So they take money not available and throw at this crisis. Sound like a good financial move? They step over homeless and walk right in.

Just in NYC, 1 Hotel room in the Roosevelt is costing the city $200 a night for 250 families. This is just the room, not including food, medical, security. This deal is for 36 months. 300million annually.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e313...tbWlncmFudHMtYW1pZC1vbmdvaW5nLXN1cmdlLw&ntb=1

Millions of immigrants cross illegally every year. They pay into the tax system and the overwhelming majority get nothing out of it. You think 250 families getting hotel rooms in NYC offsets the net positive that immigrants bring?

 

[jx820]

So Ukraine a country that just a decade ago, had a violent coup and overthrew their democratically elected pro-Russian government and replaced it with a corrupt pro-US government will lose sovereignty?

Yes. There is a difference between the people deciding to change their own government (whether or not they had assistance) and a foreign military invading. I suspect you know that.

And the rest of that is just fear mongering.

US 'world police' style foreign policy has been an unmitigated disaster. Letting Russia take part of Georgia didn't destroy the world. Neither will it taking the Eastern part of Ukraine.

If you want to claim that my concerns over Putins land grabbing are just "fear mongering", then you citing that he's already done this before is not a great debate strategy. You've just pointed out that this is part of a larger patern of behaviour.

Also most of it is not just fear mongering. Large parts of it have already started. A worse outcome for the west won't make it calmer.

• There are already Russian bases in Ukrainian territroy.
• The arms race in europe has already started
• Hostilities between unrelated european parties are already on the rise with Belarus already threatening nuclear war.
• The grain thing is just a straight up certainty. It's not speculative it's a known outcome of western sanctions.

You can't just declare things that are factually knowable to be fear mongering. You can say... "no people would be more chill in a worst case scenario for the west", or "once Ukraine is captured NATO will know they can't stop Russia and will see the clear folley in any attempts at containing their further expansion".

But don't come at me with "don't believe your lying eyes". Who are you even trying to convince with that? Me or you?

 

[Rational Poster]

Straw men like this only serve to reveal that you don't actually believe the shit you are saying deep down.

If you're against US support to Ukraine then you're in favor of Russia's war of aggression.

It's not a strawman, it's reality.

 

[AWilder]

If you're against US support to Ukraine then you're in favor of Russia's war of aggression.

It's not a strawman, it's reality.

really sad that these dorks thinking opposing a genocidal invasion is a left/right issue.

 

[MeatheadMike]

jeez fcuking christ turn off the TVs folks. This is more of the neocons same old "we need more wars for peace" bullshit propaganda

Except it's not one of our "neocon wars for peace" because Russia started this war, and we are not fighting in it.

Also it should be obvious that the bullshit propaganda being pedaled here is coming from the Russia.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yeah all that's true. And?

Might feel emotionally true to you as a Putin follower, but it didn't actually happen.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Might feel emotionally true to you as a Putin follower, but it didn't actually happen.

Let me guess, Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction too, huh?

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

If you're against US support to Ukraine then you're in favor of Russia's war of aggression.

It's not a strawman, it's reality.

Nope.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Yes. There is a difference between the people deciding to change their own government (whether or not they had assistance) and a foreign military invading. I suspect you know that.



If you want to claim that my concerns over Putins land grabbing are just "fear mongering", then you citing that he's already done this before is not a great debate strategy. You've just pointed out that this is part of a larger patern of behaviour.

Also most of it is not just fear mongering. Large parts of it have already started. A worse outcome for the west won't make it calmer.

• There are already Russian bases in Ukrainian territroy.
• The arms race in europe has already started
• Hostilities between unrelated european parties are already on the rise with Belarus already threatening nuclear war.
• The grain thing is just a straight up certainty. It's not speculative it's a known outcome of western sanctions.

You can't just declare things that are factually knowable to be fear mongering. You can say... "no people would be more chill in a worst case scenario for the west", or "once Ukraine is captured NATO will know they can't stop Russia and will see the clear folley in any attempts at containing their further expansion".

But don't come at me with "don't believe your lying eyes". Who are you even trying to convince with that? Me or you?

So what happened when Russia took a slice of Georgia? Did China invade Taiwan?

 

[Ichibanner]

I sure as heck can't think of anything better to spend it on....

This breaks my heart