Thoughts on training smart in grappling to minimize wear longterm or when returning from injury

[TheMaster]

Anyone have experience with grapppling coming back from back or other injuries, and any adjustments you made in training or technique for minimizing wear especially things like disc herniation?

Very interesting article here discussing the stress on the back in the main grappling arts.

https://www.bjjee.com/articles/does-grappling-increase-risk-of-disc-herniation/

Apparently specific Judo throws like uchimata shiuld be avoided for stressing discs c5-c6.

Rickson as an example has had multiple surgeries for 8 hernias
Most injuries in wrestling from defending the takedown, I would say same for trying to resist the throw too much if it is already in motion, and same holds true for trying to fight a submission too long if it is already locked in.

And appatently tall lanky types are prone to injury, and for unknown reasons love the guard probably because long limbs benefits them the most there.

It is inevitable there will be injury, the flexibility of youth lasts only a short period and if your a martial artist for life you need to train smart.

 

[CFGroup]

3 months @ 40% 3 months @ 60% and then see how it feels to jump to 100%

That's with hip resurfacing July 2017 6 months PT almost a year running riding and 2 hours stretching and solo Uchikomi(Butsukari) drilling.

Even Randori with a Yodan this week was a fucking blast at 40%! I got his back but lost a hook and everyone's like "You train BJJ?" LOL!

The young turks training for a comp next weekend I just worked my grips avoided the obvious setups and practiced good clean Ukemi. One low rank HS and collage wrestler crabing kid was like "It seems like you're jumping into your break fall" I wanted to say "damn straight son, low ranks are the worst at hurting people, I'm taking no chances with you" but I just said "Okay" and countered him the whole next round cause he was so bent over all I could do at 40% was kick his ankles and cycle through offensive grips.

Just so fucking happy....and sore....to be back on the mat.

Take the time man, take the time to sit back enjoy the opportunity to be on the mat and take it easy so you can work back up to 100%. I think the 40% is a good starting point, so like me 3 years off the mat, all the minutia ligaments, tendons and my fucking sore ass rib cage muscles, need to re condition.

No sense in getting surgery and blowing out something else do to mat rust and atrophy of your overall art specific physicality.

 

[OldTimey]

Neck injuries and concussion from BJJ. Protect your head. Like assume they are trying to smack you. This is especially true if you play any type of guard. Most of my issues could've been avoided if I kept my hands up.

Tap if you're stacked. Train standup but avoid people who dont know what they're doing.

Also, dont roll with white belts if you're injured.

 

[asian-glow]

1. Neck
Wish I had taken OldTimey's advice. I used to let people settle in on me, which is not good, particularly if they are large of like to use large amounts of force. You don't need to be strong to grab someones neck and just start wrenching. I don't ever let people control my head now and if I do I have my hand halfway up ready to tap if they have my head at a weird angle. I just have too much wear there to tolerate anymore.

To try to counteract this I use a cable machine with a neck harness to work it out in 4 directions, something that DirtyHolt recommended to me.

2.Knees
On another note I heard my knee snap a few years ago while messing around in bfly guard. I didn't do anything but escape out of side control for 2-3 months. After that I did and continue to do pistol squats and RFESS to stabilize my knees. I still do bfly guard but I refrain from any guards that involve binding my knee around cloth.

3. Tennis/golfer's elbow.
Cranked armbars and just general wear and tear.
I do bicep hypertrophy for tendon/ligament strength and to strengthen the surrounding musculature. Have to be careful with this as all my other strength movements + BJJ + extra bicep work can do more harm than good.

4. Shoulders
These are jacked from general wear and tear as well.
I do a lot of shoulder isolation as I find these to injure most easily along with my elbows.

There are other strengh movements I do as well, as well as mobility/flexbility and foam rolling.

These threads are always super sobering and depressing. They always make me wonder if I should get my black belt and cash out. The older posters on here give me hope though.

 

[Fla graplr]

You took 3 years to recover from injury? And you still came back?!!!! Way more balls than me.

My only advice I follow is to not engage in live takedowns with new or inexperienced guys. That is where injuries happen. Slamming into things or emphasizing power in the wrong portion of the move.

 

[asian-glow]

You took 3 years to recover from injury? And you still came back?!!!! Way more balls than me.

My only advice I follow is to not engage in live takedowns with new or inexperienced guys. That is where injuries happen. Slamming into things or emphasizing power in the wrong portion of the move.

New guys in general are just bad to roll with, particularly if they are really strong and have just enough strength to hurt you.

I didn't really appreciate how nice it is to roll with black belts until recently when I got to roll with a lot of new ones. There were a few times where I would ask "why didn't you do this"; people would forgo techniques that had a reasonable probability of hurting me. Much more live today fight tomorrow mentality. By the time normal people make it to black belt they have jobs and families and everyone does their part to take care of each other. There's none of this if "he doesn't tap or protect himself it's his own fault" bullshit. Even going hard with black belts is way safer.

 

[ZeeTV]

For a few months I tried just doing bjj, but I learned that wasn’t enough. I delevoped a groin injury on my right leg. After every class it would keep flaring up, getting worse and worse. I took a week off and started lifting weights twice a week and slowly; it stopped flaring.

Now I lift at least twice a week, 40 minutes of yoga 3 times a week, and core and lower back at least once a week. So far I’ve found that’s enough to reverse a lot of little injuries. I train 5-7 times a week and my body holds up fine now. Also doesn’t hurt to gain muscle and improve balance and flexibility.

I know it sucks but you have to work out to work out. Like having any relationship with something you love, it takes work to do it right. Can’t just show up and hop in the sack.

 

[Kbits]

Yeah; I lost about 6 weeks to low back stuff this year, including the week of @Bluesbreaker wedding, where I had to hobble off home. I lost another 12 or so weeks from being practice dummy for omoplatas (light ones at that) but I was able to train through / around that.

Somewhere past 40, there seems to be a gray zone where - if you push it - you can move like you did when you were younger...but not without next day penalty. What's worse is that things will just "give out" doing nothing things. Eg: I strained my low back getting off the floor...then a few weeks later picking up a light box (knees bent, correct form).

Concurrently, my knees and shoulders are up to shit now, so lots of stuff that I like to do I can no longer pull off. Even something simple like a stomp step kosoto causes flare up. I find myself having to play small - ankle picks, sacrifice throws etc - if and when I do stand up.

Injury recovery is a cyclical thing; get better, flare up, get worse, get better, get better, flare up ... it takes time.

Anyway, sat down today and finally grokked that I need to have a 1:1 work to recovery schedule...maybe even more recovery than work. That for every training session I needed an equal recoup session. That I needed to lift weights, watch my diet, stretch, hit the sauna, sleep, schedule weeks off etc. That I needed to treat recovery just as seriously as training (and actually consider it a form OF training) if I wanted to do this for life.

As someone who's never done that, I feel both annoyed and bemused. That I have to do all this extra work just to coast along in third gear. It's annoying.

Definitely the training mix and approach changes as you get injured or older; it's not something that I've ever seen anyone properly discuss, beyond that interview with Firas.

 

[DatCutman]

As someone who's never done that, I feel both annoyed and bemused. That I have to do all this extra work just to coast along in third gear. It's annoying.

Well said, puts a weird sense of ennui I've been feeling into words.

 

[Kbits]

Well said, puts a weird sense of ennui I've been feeling into words.

"One day the sword will break...but today is not that day"

 

[rmongler]

 

[freakroor]

i think its important to take periodic breaks to give your body time to heal. hard training is taxing on the central nervous system as well as joints/tendons and taking a break from bjj every few months can be the difference between burning out in a few years versus training for decades.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Anyone have experience with grapppling coming back from back or other injuries...

Yes, everyone.

It would depend on the injury, but go with smaller people until you feel comfortable. If you are small then just be sure your training partners know what's up and running only 1-2 times per class.

 

[imarayda]

Why train? just being athletic=being able to stop the take down and blast Bjj BB on the feet.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Definitely the training mix and approach changes as you get injured or older; it's not something that I've ever seen anyone properly discuss, beyond that interview with Firas.

Those issues are widely studied, analyzed and published over the last 40-50 years, in Olympic grappling styles (wrestling and judo).
Hence the protocols and specific training methods they use.
Apparently the vast majority in BJJ knows better and thinks proper warm ups, such as gymnastics, all sort of cart wheels and partner carrying are just a waste of time, when in reality, they are the best injury prevention method in a long term.
If combined with weights and LSD (not the drug ), people can stay active and perform very well in their 40s, 50s.
That been said, one needs to know that at that point, visiting hot, mineral springs and massage sessions should be a monthly routine.

 

[Cash Bill 52]

Those issues are widely studied, analyzed and published over the last 40-50 years, in Olympic grappling styles (wrestling and judo).
Hence the protocols and specific training methods they use.
Apparently the vast majority in BJJ knows better and thinks proper warm ups, such as gymnastics, all sort of cart wheels and partner carrying are just a waste of time, when in reality, they are the best injury prevention method in a long term.
If combined with weights and LSD (not the drug ), people can stay active and perform very well in their 40s, 50s.
That been said, one needs to know that at that point, visiting hot, mineral springs and massage sessions should be a monthly routine.

Another plug for a hot mineral spring. I’m due for sure.

 

[method115]

Tap if you're stacked.

So true. I used to love walking up my shoulders when someone would stand in my guard but didn't have good posture. I'd walk the soldiers\armbar. Now when I try it my neck hurts for days after. In fact my neck still hurts from just doing it last Friday. It's such a hard instinct to stop cause I did it with no problems for so long.

A factor I think might be warming up my neck. At my old school we always warmed up the neck. At my new one we don't and it's been since then that my neck gets hurt doing that armbar. Then again I was also 5 years younger at my old school.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Those issues are widely studied, analyzed and published over the last 40-50 years, in Olympic grappling styles (wrestling and judo).
Hence the protocols and specific training methods they use.
Apparently the vast majority in BJJ knows better and thinks proper warm ups, such as gymnastics, all sort of cart wheels and partner carrying are just a waste of time, when in reality, they are the best injury prevention method in a long term.
If combined with weights and LSD (not the drug ), people can stay active and perform very well in their 40s, 50s.
That been said, one needs to know that at that point, visiting hot, mineral springs and massage sessions should be a monthly routine.

Well it goes both ways.
The weird cartweels / partner carrying / gymnastics we do at judo as warmups can also hurt you.

However, ironically, I am seeing less back injuries in judo than in BJJ.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Well it goes both ways.
The weird cartweels / partner carrying / gymnastics we do at judo as warmups can also hurt you.

However, ironically, I am seeing less back injuries in judo than in BJJ.

There is a gradual implementation of such gymnastic drills, untill the student is capable to perform ones, such as neck spring, for example.
If someone is getting injured from cartwheel, imagine what will happen to him, when he is on the receiving part of a big uchimata.
Those kind of drills have also psychological purpose. To overcome fear of falling in all directions, develop much needed skills to move on the ground, the strength to lift and carry a partner (useful in all grappling styles), the absolute need to get ised to breakfalls, to strenghtst grappling specific bodybparts, such as neck, shoulders, back, legs...
Quite frankly, the only reason people wouldnt use those warm up drills is just pure laziness and thats why they get hurt in a long term.
I have sustained several injuries, due to poor warm ups and for a few years now, I would
straight up refuse to do poorly designed warm ups and just do my own routine, because Im 42 and cannot afford stupid injuries to keep me long time off the mat.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

There is a gradual implementation of such gymnastic drills, untill the student is capable to perform ones, such as neck spring, for example.
If someone is getting injured from cartwheel, imagine what will happen to him, when he is on the receiving part of a big uchimata.
Those kind of drills have also psychological purpose. To overcome fear of falling in all directions, develop much needed skills to move on the ground, the strength to lift and carry a partner (useful in all grappling styles), the absolute need to get ised to breakfalls, to strenghtst grappling specific bodybparts, such as neck, shoulders, back, legs...
Quite frankly, the only reason people wouldnt use those warm up drills is just pure laziness and thats why they get hurt in a long term.
I have sustained several injuries, due to poor warm ups and for a few years now, Ib
straight up refuse to do poorly designed warm ups and just do my own routine, because Im 42 and cannot afford stupid injuries to keep me long time off the mat.

I train in Germany and for weird reasons, they get very creative here for warmups. Like they are not creative in any other areas of every day life but they go nuts during judo warmups.

From making teams where we need to ride eachother in some sort of race, to playing some weird tag games, to memory games like if instructor claps 2 times we do jumping jacks, if je claps 4 times we do pushups, all sorts of weird shit.

The only problem is that they also neglect breakfalls and often newaza as well.

It can be pretty unbearable tbh.

Oh and everyonce in a while we ll get the taking a partner in a kata guruma and start squatting, after like 2 mn of warmups when everybody is still cold.

No, I have seen this trash everywhere in Germany. That's just what they do. P4P worst warm-up nation on earth.