To Gi, or not to Gi?

[KnightTemplar]

First and foremost, I'm a hobbyist; I've never had any serious desire to compete, beyond a few point Karate tournaments back when dinosaurs walked the earth

Most of my training has been in striking/weapon based styles, for example Thai Boxing and Kali. I've only recently started training BJJ, with the Gi, and I was(before Lockdown)training just for fitness and self-defence, not competition. So I have even less knowledge and experience of Grappling than I have with Striking-based martial arts.

Like I said, I've never trained without the Gi, but one thing I've noticed is complaints about no-Gi BJJ becoming too much of niche sport, with techniques that would no only be ineffective but actually dangerous to attempt outside a specific rule set.

Now, I'm fairly confident that if I threw a punch at Gordon Ryan the next thing I'd be aware off would be waking up in ER with a cop asking me, "Can you give us a description of the vehicle that ran you over?" But in general terms, do you guys think no-Gi training and competition has moved too far from practical self-defence applications?

 

[RemyR]

I’ve said this here before but I’m fairly confident that in a1v1 self defense situation if your average blue belt that competes lands on top of someone that doesn’t train that fight is just about over, barring a large size difference. Applies to both gi and no-gi.

 

[Smato_rules]

I think a lot of bjj goes out the window once you add striking, biting, and groin shots, but guys that are good still are good at the basics too. I think it would be a good idea for at least one night a week or two do some rounds with strikes, bites, eye gouges, etc motioned just to be aware. Once weapons are involved honestly almost all techniques go out the window.

 

[kpoz12]

10TH Planet Gracie>Gi AND NoGi

 

[esteven]

Honestly, it's really not that big a deal either way. All martial arts have their limitations, and all rulesets create their own weird artifacts. Just do whichever you have more fun with.

If self defense is REALLY important to you, then just mix it up and do a little of each. If you have no interest in competing, then over-specializing in a competition metagame isn't something you need to worry about.

 

[kenetics]

I think a lot of bjj goes out the window once you add striking, biting, and groin shots, but guys that are good still are good at the basics too. I think it would be a good idea for at least one night a week or two do some rounds with strikes, bites, eye gouges, etc motioned just to be aware. Once weapons are involved honestly almost all techniques go out the window.

A BJJ guy can bite , groin , and strike to you know ...

 

[kenetics]

First and foremost, I'm a hobbyist; I've never had any serious desire to compete, beyond a few point Karate tournaments back when dinosaurs walked the earth

Most of my training has been in striking/weapon based styles, for example Thai Boxing and Kali. I've only recently started training BJJ, with the Gi, and I was(before Lockdown)training just for fitness and self-defence, not competition. So I have even less knowledge and experience of Grappling than I have with Striking-based martial arts.

Like I said, I've never trained without the Gi, but one thing I've noticed is complaints about no-Gi BJJ becoming too much of niche sport, with techniques that would no only be ineffective but actually dangerous to attempt outside a specific rule set.

Now, I'm fairly confident that if I threw a punch at Gordon Ryan the next thing I'd be aware off would be waking up in ER with a cop asking me, "Can you give us a description of the vehicle that ran you over?" But in general terms, do you guys think no-Gi training and competition has moved too far from practical self-defence applications?

Do both, both are fun and have their advantages and weakness.

 

[Smato_rules]

A BJJ guy can bite , groin , and strike to you know ...

I never said they couldn’t?

 

[kenetics]

I never said they couldn’t?

So, it doesn't change anything then in a real fight.

 

[Blake_UK]

First and foremost, I'm a hobbyist; I've never had any serious desire to compete, beyond a few point Karate tournaments back when dinosaurs walked the earth

Most of my training has been in striking/weapon based styles, for example Thai Boxing and Kali. I've only recently started training BJJ, with the Gi, and I was(before Lockdown)training just for fitness and self-defence, not competition. So I have even less knowledge and experience of Grappling than I have with Striking-based martial arts.

Like I said, I've never trained without the Gi, but one thing I've noticed is complaints about no-Gi BJJ becoming too much of niche sport, with techniques that would no only be ineffective but actually dangerous to attempt outside a specific rule set.

Now, I'm fairly confident that if I threw a punch at Gordon Ryan the next thing I'd be aware off would be waking up in ER with a cop asking me, "Can you give us a description of the vehicle that ran you over?" But in general terms, do you guys think no-Gi training and competition has moved too far from practical self-defence applications?

Funnily enough I prefer the NoGi precisely because I feel it is more real world applicable than Gi - tho to be fair it probably depends a lot on your individual coach/club. We tend to do a fair bit of stand up stuff (tho I would do more) and our open mat is more like catch wrestling. When I have been at a pure BJJ Gi club I was disappointed with the lack of takedowns. I still firmly believe that in a street situation the last place to be is the floor.

Overall you have to mix it up and find what works for you. I come from a boxing background and now do MT but when I hit the bag/shadow box I try and do it in my own 'dirty boxing' style which incorporates elbows/teep/clinch/trapping etc. At some point (if I have the time/money) I would love some 1-2-1 Judo/Sambo lesson to get some throws/sweeps in as well.

 

[Smato_rules]

So, it doesn't change anything then in a real fight.

No it does. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you are used to or trained to dealing with someone doing it to you. Also, you might not be a savage and want to bite another person in a fight. It changes a lot, try playing open guard when a guy can kick you in the balls, or playing closed guard when not used to the threat of headbutts. It isn’t too hard to adapt to but the difference is very apparent

 

[kenetics]

No it does. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you are used to or trained to dealing with someone doing it to you. Also, you might not be a savage and want to bite another person in a fight. It changes a lot, try playing open guard when a guy can kick you in the balls, or playing closed guard when not used to the threat of headbutts. It isn’t too hard to adapt to but the difference is very apparent

Lol. So easy to bite and do what you listed . Takes no skill at all to kick some in the groin, Gtfo lol.

 

[Smato_rules]

Lol. So easy to bite and do what you listed . Takes no skill at all to kick some in the groin, Gtfo lol.

I have no idea what you’re trying to argue haha. Look at what mark Coleman did to guys when he was in their guard before headbutts were banned. I know that’s Coleman but still, it is possible. Also a guy can eye gouge you when your on your back pretty easily. I’ve gotten eye gouged twice but was on top so it didn’t do anything, but still. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but it doesn’t take any skill to kick someone in the balls or bite them, that’s the point. Like I said, just rolling once or twice every week or two just to be aware of it wouldn’t be a bad idea, there are some positions where you’re more vulnerable to cheap attacks than some would imagine.

 

[kenetics]

I have no idea what you’re trying to argue haha. Look at what mark Coleman did to guys when he was in their guard before headbutts were banned. I know that’s Coleman but still, it is possible. Also a guy can eye gouge you when your on your back pretty easily. I’ve gotten eye gouged twice but was on top so it didn’t do anything, but still. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but it doesn’t take any skill to kick someone in the balls or bite them, that’s the point. Like I said, just rolling once or twice every week or two just to be aware of it wouldn’t be a bad idea, there are some positions where you’re more vulnerable to cheap attacks than some would imagine.

People should be aware thatathat that can happen in a real fight. Pretty simple to keep that in mind..

 

[Smato_rules]

People should be aware thatathat that can happen in a real fight. Pretty simple to keep that in mind..

Yeah, and even simpler and easier when you train it once in a while. Believe it or not there’s a lot going on at once in a self defense scenario, it’s good to have some mat time with those types of moves at least motioned once in a while

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Some bjj guys can fight some can’t. Simple as that.

I don’t think it’s even a gi vs no gi debate. It’s bjj as a whole. For what it’s worth I think no gi is way more like a fight, regardless of the submission only rule sets or whatever people have complained about

 

[rmongler]

Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you are used to or trained to dealing with someone doing it to you.

That applies just as much to the other guy too.

 

[Smato_rules]

That applies just as much to the other guy too.

I know that. I’ve been eye gouged. I don’t understand why that matters

 

[kenetics]

Some bjj guys can fight some can’t. Simple as that.

I don’t think it’s even a gi vs no gi debate. It’s bjj as a whole. For what it’s worth I think no gi is way more like a fight, regardless of the submission only rule sets or whatever people have complained about

This.

 

[winterbike]

I have no idea what you’re trying to argue haha. Look at what mark Coleman did to guys when he was in their guard before headbutts were banned. I know that’s Coleman but still, it is possible. Also a guy can eye gouge you when your on your back pretty easily. I’ve gotten eye gouged twice but was on top so it didn’t do anything, but still. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but it doesn’t take any skill to kick someone in the balls or bite them, that’s the point. Like I said, just rolling once or twice every week or two just to be aware of it wouldn’t be a bad idea, there are some positions where you’re more vulnerable to cheap attacks than some would imagine.

That's literally the point of BJJ. Advance positionally so you can negate the other guy's game and go for subs if you feel like it.

And lol at Mark Coleman. Dude was an Olympian wrestler, the headbutts were only the cherry on top of the moutain of destination fucked you're crushed under when you fight that monster.