Economy Top Democrats push to pay off $50,000 student loans

[The XL]

Why should the working class have to subsidize this? Are they going to get a free 50k too?

 

[blackheart]

Why should the working class have to subsidize this? Are they going to get a free 50k too?

PPP loans cost nearly double what Biden's student debt forgiveness would have. Here's how the programs compare.

The U.S. forgave $757 billion in loans through the Paycheck Protection Program, with most of those benefits going to the wealthy.

www.cbsnews.com

In particular, the Paycheck Protection Program has so far forgiven $757 billion in loans to private businesses, according to government databases — nearly double what the Biden administration's student-loan forgiveness would have cost.

Millionaires have 800 billion in loans cancelled - I sleep. Crickets.
Middle class people get a tiny amount of student loans forgiven - OMG WHY SHOULD THE WORKING CLASS HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE THIS

you people are seriously just so fucking sad. You have no ability to think independently. You're completely programmed by media to serve as a reactionary attack dog for the rich.

Where is all the screeching and crying about WEALTHY BUSINESS OWNERS, RECEIVING 2X THE AMOUNT OF DEBT CANCELLATION THAT BIDEN PROPOSED FOR MIDDLE CLASS DEGREE HOLDERS

"Why should the working class have to subsidize wealthy business owners receiving 800 billion in free money??"
"How are we going to pay for it?"

All of those responses 1000% apply to the PPP loans. But look at where your energy is at. You're attacking middle class people getting a tiny sliver of relief. You have NOT ONE FUCKING THING to say about millionaires and billionaires receiving DOUBLE the amount of loan forgiveness.

It's also completely fucking revealing about how dogshit the American system is, when Biden can cancel 800 billion in loans for business owners, with no challenges from the supreme court or from congress. But when he tries to cancel half of that amount for regular working people, the supreme court shoots it down and half the country goes into a screeching frenzy. America - for the rich, by the rich.

 

[Rob Battisti]

"blah blah blah. Im a stupid cuck that loves shilling crypto currency because I'm a stupid mark"

Yeah bro stfu. I write long detailed thoughtful responses on here day in and day out, and 99.9% of the time you 10 IQ right wingers respond with pictures or one-line insults. So I switch to doing the same thing and now I get
"if there was ever an example of getting so ridiculously owned to the point of having literally no rebuttal, it is this."

Responses to me writing long detailed posts: "haha look at my meme where you're the idiot"
Responses to me stooping down to your level: "haha wow look at this example of you getting owned to the point of having no rebuttal"

It doesn't matter what I do or how I respond. You low IQ morons are completely bad-faith mouth breathers that never have a shred of interest in actually engaging in argumentation and addressing the topic.

Now please, run off back to the crypto thread so you can scream into a bullhorn about what a gullible moron you are.

LOL

Excuse me while I cry on my bed made of money.

 

[Gutter Chris]

PPP loans cost nearly double what Biden's student debt forgiveness would have. Here's how the programs compare.

The U.S. forgave $757 billion in loans through the Paycheck Protection Program, with most of those benefits going to the wealthy.

www.cbsnews.com

Millionaires have 800 billion in loans cancelled - I sleep. Crickets.
Middle class people get a tiny amount of student loans forgiven - OMG WHY SHOULD THE WORKING CLASS HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE THIS

you people are seriously just so fucking sad. You have no ability to think independently. You're completely programmed by media to serve as a reactionary attack dog for the rich.

Where is all the screeching and crying about WEALTHY BUSINESS OWNERS, RECEIVING 2X THE AMOUNT OF DEBT CANCELLATION THAT BIDEN PROPOSED FOR MIDDLE CLASS DEGREE HOLDERS

"Why should the working class have to subsidize wealthy business owners receiving 800 billion in free money??"
"How are we going to pay for it?"

All of those responses 1000% apply to the PPP loans. But look at where your energy is at. You're attacking middle class people getting a tiny sliver of relief. You have NOT ONE FUCKING THING to say about millionaires and billionaires receiving DOUBLE the amount of loan forgiveness.

I think student loan forgiveness is a great plan. But the people asking do the working class get 50 k too is a fair question. Not everyone went to school or went into debt to go to school.

The rich always get bailed out. If this passes the college kids get bailed out.

.but the working class , blue collar America and the working poor don't get bailed out and get to be taxed for it


Perhaps should take the plan back to the drawing board and work it so a person gets a mortgage credit , a tax break or loan forgiveness. The bailout we should have done in 2008.

Calling chud on people saying it's not fair when they have a point doesn't seem helpful.

And yes I think higher education in certain fields should be subsidized going forward. We do need to invest in our future and our country at some point.

 

[blackheart]

I think student loan forgiveness is a great plan. But the people asking do the working class get 50 k too is a fair question.

It's not a fair question. It's a bad-faith question that is intended to be concern trolling

What's A Concern Troll? Everything You Need To Know To Spot One

Concern trolling involves someone opposing an idea or viewpoint, yet acting like they’re an advocate for the cause.

www.dictionary.com

Concern trolling involves someone opposing an idea or viewpoint, yet acting like they’re an advocate for the cause. A concern troll offers undermining criticisms under the guise of concern.

We have a progressive taxation system in this country. Lower income people pay a lower % of their earnings in taxes. That means working class people pay for this the least, and middle and upper income people pay for this the most. The same applies to any government funded initiative. That's the baseline here - wealthy people are paying for the majority of it. Above that, who benefits from this? Working class and middle class people. Wealthy people aren't carrying student loan debt. It is working class people that benefit from this.

"Is it fair for working class people to have to pay for this thing that benefits working class people?" Uh, yeah, its pretty fuckin fair.

The average PPP loan was over $200,000. Is it a fair question for me to ask "well okay, but do I get 200,000 dollars?". No, its not really a fair question. It's a fucking stupid question if you spend 10 seconds thinking about it, that sounds like a fair question on the surface.

Looking at any government payout or benefit that you don't get and saying "well it's only fair if I get that too" is a child's way of thinking my dude.

Not everyone went to school or went into debt to go to school.

Yes - poor people often go to school and drop out because they're poor and can't afford to stay. Then they're stuck with the student loans they took out to try and advance their position in life. Poor people are who benefit the most from student loan debt forgiveness

The rich always get bailed out. If this passes the college kids get bailed out.

.but the working class , blue collar America and the working poor don't get bailed out and get to be taxed for it

If your argument is that we should do MORE for poor and working people, then great. I just don't understand why that has to be couched in faux concern about poor people being taxed. Again, we live in a country with progressive taxation. Poor people pay less of their income to taxes than middle and upper class people do. The taxation rate stays the same regardless of whether or not this goes through. So literally WTF is this entire argument dude????

Perhaps should take the plan back to the drawing board and work it so a person gets a mortgage credit , a tax break or loan forgiveness. The bailout we should have done in 2008.

Calling chud on people saying it's not fair when they have a point doesn't seem helpful.

And yes I think higher education in certain fields should be subsidized going forward. We do need to invest in our future and our country at some point.

 

[Gutter Chris]

It's not a fair question. It's a bad-faith question that is intended to be concern trolling

What's A Concern Troll? Everything You Need To Know To Spot One

Concern trolling involves someone opposing an idea or viewpoint, yet acting like they’re an advocate for the cause.

www.dictionary.com

We have a progressive taxation system in this country. Lower income people pay a lower % of their earnings in taxes. That means working class people pay for this the least, and middle and upper income people pay for this the most. The same applies to any government funded initiative. That's the baseline here - wealthy people are paying for the majority of it. Above that, who benefits from this? Working class and middle class people. Wealthy people aren't carrying student loan debt. It is working class people that benefit from this.

"Is it fair for working class people to have to pay for this thing that benefits working class people?" Uh, yeah, its pretty fuckin fair.

The average PPP loan was over $200,000. Is it a fair question for me to ask "well okay, but do I get 200,000 dollars?". No, its not really a fair question. It's a fucking stupid question if you spend 10 seconds thinking about it, that sounds like a fair question on the surface.

Looking at any government payout or benefit that you don't get and saying "well it's only fair if I get that too" is a child's way of thinking my dude.

Yes - poor people often go to school and drop out because they're poor and can't afford to stay. Then they're stuck with the student loans they took out to try and advance their position in life. Poor people are who benefit the most from student loan debt forgiveness

If your argument is that we should do MORE for poor and working people, then great. I just don't understand why that has to be couched in faux concern about poor people being taxed. Again, we live in a country with progressive taxation. Poor people pay less of their income to taxes than middle and upper class people do. The taxation rate stays the same regardless of whether or not this goes through. So literally WTF is this entire argument dude????

This argument is that there's a group of working class people who pays taxes and doesn't really see anything for them and you are asking that same group to eat it again for a group of people that despises them. I wasn't saying anything about their rate of taxes. And what's in it for me is totally how people vote in this country and if you want to sell them your views it should be an easy enough question to answer. Obviously I think the country should do better for working class people but it's pretty easy to see why those same people always feel under attack.


Why don't you take a chill pill and stop being so belligerent.

 

[Scerpi]

PPP loans cost nearly double what Biden's student debt forgiveness would have. Here's how the programs compare.

The U.S. forgave $757 billion in loans through the Paycheck Protection Program, with most of those benefits going to the wealthy.

www.cbsnews.com

Millionaires have 800 billion in loans cancelled - I sleep. Crickets.
Middle class people get a tiny amount of student loans forgiven - OMG WHY SHOULD THE WORKING CLASS HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE THIS

you people are seriously just so fucking sad. You have no ability to think independently. You're completely programmed by media to serve as a reactionary attack dog for the rich.

Where is all the screeching and crying about WEALTHY BUSINESS OWNERS, RECEIVING 2X THE AMOUNT OF DEBT CANCELLATION THAT BIDEN PROPOSED FOR MIDDLE CLASS DEGREE HOLDERS

"Why should the working class have to subsidize wealthy business owners receiving 800 billion in free money??"
"How are we going to pay for it?"

All of those responses 1000% apply to the PPP loans. But look at where your energy is at. You're attacking middle class people getting a tiny sliver of relief. You have NOT ONE FUCKING THING to say about millionaires and billionaires receiving DOUBLE the amount of loan forgiveness.

It's also completely fucking revealing about how dogshit the American system is, when Biden can cancel 800 billion in loans for business owners, with no challenges from the supreme court or from congress. But when he tries to cancel half of that amount for regular working people, the supreme court shoots it down and half the country goes into a screeching frenzy. America - for the rich, by the rich.

You're comparing Student Loans to PPP loans issued during COVID because shit Covid policies shut them down?

1,000's of small businesses had to close because COVID Policies. And 1,000's more would have gone under without the Fed's forgiving the lifelines they threw out to save their asses for forcing the country into their homes for no reason.

Y'all love to bash Trump for inflating the decifict... Almost ALL OF IT was from 2020 when the Federal Government hemorrhaged money everywhere to cover for bad policy decisions. Money for families, Money for businesses....

And we'll by paying for those policies for years

lol...

Try again

And it's all Democrats have right now... How many "Free" Benefits, Entitlements and flat out money can we give away to save Biden's disaster of an Administration? It won't make enough of a difference to buy him more votes in the States that money and just divides people more. I mean fuck me.. .Why did I make sacrifices and pay off my Student Loans? That was a terrible decision now in retrospect.

Sure, lets throw out more free money... why not?

 

[Scerpi]

This argument is that there's a group of working class people who pays taxes and doesn't really see anything for them and you are asking that same group to eat it again for a group of people that despises them. I wasn't saying anything about their rate of taxes. And what's in it for me is totally how people vote in this country and if you want to sell them your views it should be an easy enough question to answer. Obviously I think the country should do better for working class people but it's pretty easy to see why those same people always feel under attack.


Why don't you take a chill pill and stop being so belligerent.

Brakis wannabe...

Even Skold was better

 

[Scerpi]

There's plenty of economic evidence that student loan debt is handcuffing the economy. That affects everyone. For example -- the college graduate with the better job needs to hire plumbers, electricians, etc. And he can't do that if all of his money is going to the debt. He can't afford to patronize restaurants, which pay waitstaff, or afford decent tips if he does go out. He can't buy a new car and the car salesman experiences that loss. The cost of that debt isn't experienced solely by the debt holder. That loss of discretionary income affects everyone in the economy.

Sure, maybe the student eventually pays off his debt in 30 years but that's 30 years where people who would have sold him services and goods miss out on that money circulating through the economy.

Additionally, it's inconsistent to talk about it as forgiving the debt of people who are already "better off". By that logic, we should get rid of IRAs and tax deferred savings plans too. Since they benefit people who already have enough money to fund those devices. Additionally, business expense deductions should be removed since we're taking the tax hit for the benefit of those lucky enough to run their own businesses.

These "principles" that people apply are rarely principles in truth, they're just justifications to keep things from happening. I can live with that...let's not pretend they're something more than that. People usually oppose paying off student loan debt for 1 of 2 reasons: 1) They didn't go to college and think it's unfair that something they didn't get to do is being paid off for other people; and 2) They went to college and paid off their own debt and think its unfair they're not getting the same benefit.

Both groups of people gladly take all of the other government savings offered to them. People with their own homes don't give a rat's ass about how unfair it is that they get a deduction that renters don't get. People with children take the tax breaks that come with that and don't give a shit about the people who don't have kids and are paying for it.

Let's stop the false moralizing for what are ultimately "I don't get to share in the benefit" arguments.

Why not take the Colleges and Universities to task and have them help pay theses off... Instead of Tax payers?

Seriously... I think I saw that Havard is pulling in over $6 Billion?

Yes, Billion... and how much of that is spent on complete garbage that has zero bearing on students, research and other studies.

"The University ended fiscal year 2023 with an operating surplus of $186 million compared to $406 million in fiscal year 2022, on an operating revenue base that increased 5% or $262 million, to $6.1 billion."

And what about these banks who issues these FEDERALLY guaranteed loans... which somehow are magically immune from Bancrupcy... Also leading to inflated tuition costs. There's no chance tuitions cost would have exploded without these guarentees...

Year 1998 -

Borrowers are no longer able to discharge student loans in bankruptcy after 7 years in repayment unless they can demonstrate undue hardship in an adversarial proceeding - Higher Education Amendments of 1998 (P.L. 105-244)​

If these banks suddenly had to worry that their money might disappear due to shit degrees with less projected salaries than the average blue collar worker with zero college experience?

So let these kids discharge their loans through bankruptcy... It may have secondary benefits of keeping tuition cost from continuing to explode.

But until then (Even if current loans are forgiven).. just keep giving naive students hundred thousand plus dollar loans... Loans that no other person in any situation would be able to qualify for.

 

[blackheart]

This argument is that there's a group of working class people who pays taxes and doesn't really see anything for them and you are asking that same group to eat it again for a group of people that despises them.

It's fucking weird how this never comes up with ANY other government funded programs. It is ONLY when normal people are set to receive some kind of benefit, that all of a sudden there is this fake concern and fake outrage about working class people paying for it.

I wasn't saying anything about their rate of taxes. And what's in it for me is totally how people vote in this country and if you want to sell them your views it should be an easy enough question to answer. Obviously I think the country should do better for working class people

That's fine. I am saying something about their rate of taxes - we have progressive taxation. Poor people pay for student loan debt forgiveness the LEAST, and benefit the MOST.

but it's pretty easy to see why those same people always feel under attack.

Yeah it is pretty easy to see that - because multinational corporations and billionaires have been flooding the air and radio waves, for decades, with agitating propaganda to convince them that "the west is falling" "christ is under attack!" "blacks are destroying your neighborhood!" "your very way of life is being destroyed!"

Yeah gee, it really is a mystery trying to understand why working people feel like they're always under attack.

Why don't you take a chill pill and stop being so belligerent.

No. I am being crushed under a mountain of student loan debt that will ensure I can never own a home and that I will be served an additional lifetime tax on my earnings. FUCK you and FUCK everyone else that is going to shill for the ultra-rich and try to keep me locked into this situation. You are my direct and immediate enemy when you are trying to keep me trapped in an absolutely desperate and fucked up financial situation. Expect all of the belligerence and all of the insults when you are directly trying to make my life materially worse.

 

[blackheart]

You're comparing Student Loans to PPP loans issued during COVID because shit Covid policies shut them down?

1,000's of small businesses had to close because COVID Policies. And 1,000's more would have gone under without the Fed's forgiving the lifelines they threw out to save their asses for forcing the country into their homes for no reason.

Y'all love to bash Trump for inflating the decifict... Almost ALL OF IT was from 2020 when the Federal Government hemorrhaged money everywhere to cover for bad policy decisions. Money for families, Money for businesses....

And we'll by paying for those policies for years

lol...

Try again

And it's all Democrats have right now... How many "Free" Benefits, Entitlements and flat out money can we give away to save Biden's disaster of an Administration? It won't make enough of a difference to buy him more votes in the States that money and just divides people more. I mean fuck me.. .Why did I make sacrifices and pay off my Student Loans? That was a terrible decision now in retrospect.

Sure, lets throw out more free money... why not?

yeah again, as expected - you shill and cuck for the rich. You default to rationalizing why its okay and why its logical for wealthy business owners to receive 800 billion in debt cancellation. But when millions of working people are set to receive half that amount? "REEEEEEE!!!!!"

You are a shill attack dog for the ruling elite.

 

[MusclesMarinara]

You're comparing Student Loans to PPP loans issued during COVID because shit Covid policies shut them down?

1,000's of small businesses had to close because COVID Policies. And 1,000's more would have gone under without the Fed's forgiving the lifelines they threw out to save their asses for forcing the country into their homes for no reason.

Y'all love to bash Trump for inflating the decifict... Almost ALL OF IT was from 2020 when the Federal Government hemorrhaged money everywhere to cover for bad policy decisions. Money for families, Money for businesses....

And we'll by paying for those policies for years

lol...

Try again

And it's all Democrats have right now... How many "Free" Benefits, Entitlements and flat out money can we give away to save Biden's disaster of an Administration? It won't make enough of a difference to buy him more votes in the States that money and just divides people more. I mean fuck me.. .Why did I make sacrifices and pay off my Student Loans? That was a terrible decision now in retrospect.

Sure, lets throw out more free money... why not?

I particularly enjoyed the timing on this announcement. Let's offer free money to people so we can buy votes.

Additionally, I think many colleges and the bullshit degrees are a scam. Educational institutes are large land holders that operate as tax exempt all the while operating as 'for profit' in reality.

During a recent national health crisis, I observed the president of a high profile NYC university take themselves a 5 million dollar a year raise while the employees where asked to understand that the university just didn't have the funds that year.

 

[koquerelle]

This argument is that there's a group of working class people who pays taxes and doesn't really see anything for them and you are asking that same group to eat it again for a group of people that despises them. I wasn't saying anything about their rate of taxes. And what's in it for me is totally how people vote in this country and if you want to sell them your views it should be an easy enough question to answer. Obviously I think the country should do better for working class people but it's pretty easy to see why those same people always feel under attack.


Why don't you take a chill pill and stop being so belligerent.

Because he's the stereotype of a low IQ libtard. He will protect anything his team does. He's just as bad as the worst Trump supporter, but he's too stupid to realize it. He's the new QueenB.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

I particularly enjoyed the timing on this announcement. Let's offer free money to people so we can buy votes.

 

[MicroBrew]

Chuck Schumer and Elizabeth Warren reintroduced a resolution to forgive $50,000 student loan debt.

Here is a way to really divide the country pay off the debt from some of America’s top earners. Anyone that that paid of their student loans or did not take any out will be screwed over causing massive resentment.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/04/big...s-plan-to-forgive-50000-of-student-debt-.html

Why not? Many 1st world nations have free college education or it is highly subsidized. Why are we, the richest and most powerfull country in the world, soo dam opposed to helping the average America?

Look at the hundreds of billions given to Ukraine, Israel, Egypt, Pakistan and others. The 1 trillion $ spent on the Iraq war, a war waged on lies. The subsidies to Farmers and big corporations. Companies who are worth hundreds of billions get subsidies either directly or indirectly.

For all the talk about patriotism Conservatives really just believe in social darwinism.

 

[Seano]

Why not? Many 1st world nations have free college education or it is highly subsidized.

Thats not really free. It just puts the taxpayer on the hook for everyone's debt.

 

[panamaican]

Why not take the Colleges and Universities to task and have them help pay theses off... Instead of Tax payers?

Seriously... I think I saw that Havard is pulling in over $6 Billion?

Yes, Billion... and how much of that is spent on complete garbage that has zero bearing on students, research and other studies.

"The University ended fiscal year 2023 with an operating surplus of $186 million compared to $406 million in fiscal year 2022, on an operating revenue base that increased 5% or $262 million, to $6.1 billion."

And what about these banks who issues these FEDERALLY guaranteed loans... which somehow are magically immune from Bancrupcy... Also leading to inflated tuition costs. There's no chance tuitions cost would have exploded without these guarentees...

Year 1998 -

Borrowers are no longer able to discharge student loans in bankruptcy after 7 years in repayment unless they can demonstrate undue hardship in an adversarial proceeding - Higher Education Amendments of 1998 (P.L. 105-244)​

If these banks suddenly had to worry that their money might disappear due to shit degrees with less projected salaries than the average blue collar worker with zero college experience?

So let these kids discharge their loans through bankruptcy... It may have secondary benefits of keeping tuition cost from continuing to explode.

But until then (Even if current loans are forgiven).. just keep giving naive students hundred thousand plus dollar loans... Loans that no other person in any situation would be able to qualify for.

Those are 2 different issues. Addressing the cost of college is a solution for the future. Addressing the impact of existing loans is a solution for the present. Both are necessary. But one shouldn't be dismissed just because the other hasn't been implemented yet.

The argument against bankruptcy is the same argument that debt relief gets now. You grant bankruptcy then the person gets to keep the value of the degree without having to pay for it. It's the same principle. I guess people didn't think the stigma of bankruptcy and the credit hit were sufficient punishment.

IMO, the only real solution is to completely overhaul education from ages 3-18. People should leave high school with the equivalent skill level as a college degree. This would make them desirable hires out of high school again and reduce the need for college. But there's no political or public will to spend the money the right way to fix public schools and age 1-5 education. Just look at the pushback around the idea of free pre-k, something that would absolutely essential to ensure that the right foundations are there before 1st grade (since not every place even mandates kindergarten).

 

[My Spot]

This argument is that there's a group of working class people who pays taxes and doesn't really see anything for them and you are asking that same group to eat it again for a group of people that despises them. I wasn't saying anything about their rate of taxes. And what's in it for me is totally how people vote in this country and if you want to sell them your views it should be an easy enough question to answer. Obviously I think the country should do better for working class people but it's pretty easy to see why those same people always feel under attack.


Why don't you take a chill pill and stop being so belligerent.

That's brackis doing his usual whataboutism.

 

[DrDune]

No. I am being crushed under a mountain of student loan debt that will ensure I can never own a home and that I will be served an additional lifetime tax on my earnings. FUCK you and FUCK everyone else that is going to shill for the ultra-rich and try to keep me locked into this situation. You are my direct and immediate enemy when you are trying to keep me trapped in an absolutely desperate and fucked up financial situation. Expect all of the belligerence and all of the insults when you are directly trying to make my life materially worse.

And there it is. Zero financial literacy, zero personal accountability, so it must be taken care of by the rest of society. No wonder you're so vested.

Fun fact - the ultra rich didn't force you into a loan that you couldn't satisfy. Neither did we. Take a hard look in the mirror if you want to see why your life is "in a fucked up financial situation". With all due respect, that is.

 

[My Spot]

Those are 2 different issues. Addressing the cost of college is a solution for the future. Addressing the impact of existing loans is a solution for the present. Both are necessary. But one shouldn't be dismissed just because the other hasn't been implemented yet.

The argument against bankruptcy is the same argument that debt relief gets now. You grant bankruptcy then the person gets to keep the value of the degree without having to pay for it. It's the same principle. I guess people didn't think the stigma of bankruptcy and the credit hit were sufficient punishment.

IMO, the only real solution is to completely overhaul education from ages 3-18. People should leave high school with the equivalent skill level as a college degree. This would make them desirable hires out of high school again and reduce the need for college. But there's no political or public will to spend the money the right way to fix public schools and age 1-5 education. Just look at the pushback around the idea of free pre-k, something that would absolutely essential to ensure that the right foundations are there before 1st grade (since not every place even mandates kindergarten).

We've had a program here in GA for 30 years now that covers tuition and fees as long as you maintain a 3.0 GPA that's funded entirely by the state lottery (FL has something similar). I don't know why other states haven't done the same thing.