Training structure

[georgwilhelm**]

At our club we train w/o obvious structure. One day we will do three techniques from side control, the other day three techniques from spider guard and on the next day three techniques to attack the turtle. As a beginner I find that very confusing because I seem to lack in all areas and only few techniques will address problems I am actually experiencing. Also there are so many techniques that we can go literally months w/o seeing the same thing twice. So I can only use half of the techniques and these I find hard to remember because without repition of basic positions and techniques I tend to forget things.

Another problem is that I don't lack techniques... I lack knowledge of basic stuff, like how to play open guard in the beginning of a roll (I feel that I lose most matches in the first few seconds because I either get my guard passed or are unable to pass guard) or about hand placement etc etc.

So my question is: Do more people train at clubs w/o proper structure? And how do you go about the sheer number of techniques, ie being shown different technques from different positions every training?

 

[mixmaster staph]

It's pretty well accepted that that's not the best way to go about things, particularly for beginners.

 

[triangle killer]

At our club we train w/o obvious structure. One day we will do three techniques from side control, the other day three techniques from spider guard and on the next day three techniques to attack the turtle. As a beginner I find that very confusing because I seem to lack in all areas and only few techniques will address problems I am actually experiencing. Also there are so many techniques that we can go literally months w/o seeing the same thing twice. So I can only use half of the techniques and these I find hard to remember because without repition of basic positions and techniques I tend to forget things.

Another problem is that I don't lack techniques... I lack knowledge of basic stuff, like how to play open guard in the beginning of a roll (I feel that I lose most matches in the first few seconds because I either get my guard passed or are unable to pass guard) or about hand placement etc etc.

So my question is: Do more people train at clubs w/o proper structure? And how do you go about the sheer number of techniques, ie being shown different technques from different positions every training?

As a beginner, like myself, everything needs work. I just do what I'm told and eventually you will have attacks from most positions and can put them together. That's my thoughts anyway.

 

[Torre]

In our school, we focus mainly on about 30 core techniques (our blue belt curriculum) which are rotated over a 2-3 week period, with the occasional extra stuff thrown in. Reason is that we are a new gym, all white belts, so I'm sure eventually we'll see some changes.

 

[kintana]

My current club follows a structure which is, teaches one position and 1-3 techniques from that position for the week. We only have 4 hours of training a week.

My old club taught 1 position 1-2 techniques from that position that is offensive and 1-2 techniques from that position that is defensive. For example: Close guard, Guard pass for the person on top and sweep for the position on bottom is taught. Each day is a new technique sometimes new position depending on how fast people pick it up. But originally I had the same issue as yours.

You have to slow it down. We saw like 4-5 positions a week plus 2 techniques per position. There was so much information I felt I only learned 10% of what I saw. You have to focus on little things or maybe talk to your instructor that your moving to fast. What I did is I got a partner who practiced with me after class and before class to help me. Eventually learning all this wasn't so hard.

 

[LordarshynBJJ]

If you have open mats, go and re-drill everything from the week during your open mats to make sure you remember it. if you have questions, don't be afraid to ask. I would prefer more structure, but as long as you're learning..at least you're doing bjj right?

If it's that big of a problem, maybe find a new school?

I, personally, am very used to structure. My teacher will decide on a position, and teach stuff from that position for a week or two..and build on it while reviewing all the previous moves every day....so by the end of the two weeks we have seen the basic movements like, 6 times, and the advanced ones two or three times...on the very last day of the position, he will pretty much show us the whole series that he has been teaching...That is how I prefer to learn.

What you seem to be being taught, is what Carlos Machado told us is "frankenstein jiu-jitsu." ...just a bunch of stuff being thrown together that doesn't really work, or flow...but i still stand by this: if it's you're only option to learn bjj, it's better than not learning BJJ. If it's not your only option and you aren't dedicated and super loyal to the school, go look around, it's YOUR life, YOUR training, go get what YOU want out of it.

My current club follows a structure which is, teaches one position and 1-3 techniques from that position for the week. We only have 4 hours of training a week.

My old club taught 1 position 1-2 techniques from that position that is offensive and 1-2 techniques from that position that is defensive. For example: Close guard, Guard pass for the person on top and sweep for the position on bottom is taught. Each day is a new technique sometimes new position depending on how fast people pick it up. But originally I had the same issue as yours.

You have to slow it down. We saw like 4-5 positions a week plus 2 techniques per position. There was so much information I felt I only learned 10% of what I saw. You have to focus on little things or maybe talk to your instructor that your moving to fast. What I did is I got a partner who practiced with me after class and before class to help me. Eventually learning all this wasn't so hard.

A lot of times, BJJ is just like going to class at college...sometimes you just need to do some studying outside of class. glad that you have someone to go voer the stuff before and after class. you should consider taking notes as well.

In our school, we focus mainly on about 30 core techniques (our blue belt curriculum) which are rotated over a 2-3 week period, with the occasional extra stuff thrown in. Reason is that we are a new gym, all white belts, so I'm sure eventually we'll see some changes.

I am by no means an expert, just a blue belt myself, but i like that style. Mastering a set of core techniques and a solid foundation is pretty important in my opinion.

 

[SummerStriker]

At our club we train w/o obvious structure. One day we will do three techniques from side control, the other day three techniques from spider guard and on the next day three techniques to attack the turtle. As a beginner I find that very confusing because I seem to lack in all areas and only few techniques will address problems I am actually experiencing. Also there are so many techniques that we can go literally months w/o seeing the same thing twice. So I can only use half of the techniques and these I find hard to remember because without repition of basic positions and techniques I tend to forget things.

Another problem is that I don't lack techniques... I lack knowledge of basic stuff, like how to play open guard in the beginning of a roll (I feel that I lose most matches in the first few seconds because I either get my guard passed or are unable to pass guard) or about hand placement etc etc.

So my question is: Do more people train at clubs w/o proper structure? And how do you go about the sheer number of techniques, ie being shown different technques from different positions every training?

I've never seen anything different than this. I think it is a marketing thing, to make learning take longer so you stay longer.

Ask an experienced guy you know what he thinks is the foundational stuff, then whenever there is down time, ask someone to practice it with you. With BJJ you usually have to take some of the learning into your own hands.

 

[LordarshynBJJ]

I've never seen anything different than this. I think it is a marketing thing, to make learning take longer so you stay longer.

Ask an experienced guy you know what he thinks is the foundational stuff, then whenever there is down time, ask someone to practice it with you. With BJJ you usually have to take some of the learning into your own hands.

a good instructor will never intentionally try to slow down the learning of his students. That's just silly. Your instructor sucks if he's doing that...it's bad marketing too because then his students will just go somewhere else, so if they're doing it for marketing they're a bad instructor and bad at marketing.

 

[SummerStriker]

a good instructor will never intentionally try to slow down the learning of his students. That's just silly. Your instructor sucks if he's doing that...it's bad marketing too because then his students will just go somewhere else, so if they're doing it for marketing they're a bad instructor and bad at marketing.

I'm not a BJJ person. I took it for 3 months here, 3 months there. I'm not commenting on its effectiveness, and I've always had people willing to show me the basics when we roll or when I ask.

I'm just agreeing with the OP that I've seen the same thing and think it is normal.

 

[LordarshynBJJ]

I'm not a BJJ person. I took it for 3 months here, 3 months there. I'm not commenting on its effectiveness, and I've always had people willing to show me the basics when we roll or when I ask.

I'm just agreeing with the OP that I've seen the same thing and think it is normal.

instructing in that style isn't uncommon, you won't see me disagree with that. I just don't think the intention is usually to slow down progress. I'm sure there are exceptions, but if you run into an instructor that's doing things to slow down their students, it's time to find a new academy.

 

[Balto]

The best advice I can give you is to find a different club. You can't fix something that is that fundamentally broken.

 

[SummerStriker]

instructing in that style isn't uncommon, you won't see me disagree with that. I just don't think the intention is usually to slow down progress. I'm sure there are exceptions, but if you run into an instructor that's doing things to slow down their students, it's time to find a new academy.

It's not like they say they are doing that.

But if an expert shows a technique, knows that no one can do it well, and then changes topics for weeks - habitually - they must know.

The only other reason is that I can think of is that they are afraid that focusing on something more than that is too boring and people will quit, so they cater to a low attention span and the ego that people think they are good already.

 

[LordarshynBJJ]

It's not like they say they are doing that.

But if an expert shows a technique, knows that no one can do it well, and then changes topics for weeks - habitually - they must know.

The only other reason is that I can think of is that they are afraid that focusing on something more than that is too boring and people will quit, so they cater to a low attention span and the ego that people think they are good already.

wanting to keep their students interested is what I would figure is happening most often when you see this kind of teaching style.

 

[Balto]

It's not like they say they are doing that.

But if an expert shows a technique, knows that no one can do it well, and then changes topics for weeks - habitually - they must know.

The only other reason is that I can think of is that they are afraid that focusing on something more than that is too boring and people will quit, so they cater to a low attention span and the ego that people think they are good already.

I think they are just bad teachers and really don't know how to do it any better. Unfortunately there are a lot of those out there.

 

[TsunamiBJJ]

There's some good and bad with every training structure. For instance where I train there is a 20 class beginner curriculum that the beginners have to 2 twice before they can roll - I think that is way too long, but the beginners that come out of that are generally pretty decent for first time rollers.

Our intermediate/advanced classes are broken up in to sections. So we'll spend 4-5 weeks on guard, another 4-5 weeks on half guard, etc covering all the major positions and some of the lesser used positions in 2-3 week sections (knee on belly, north south, etc). The good thing is that you get lots of reps and I can actually see the improvement of my training partners during that 4-5 weeks. The down side is that some of the sections are too long (5 weeks on foot locks as an example) and the classes get a bit monotonous.

 

[Balto]

Competition was supposed to eventually drive this kind of stuff out. But most schools don't really care about competition so that doesn't really work.

Oh every school says they do competitions. Just go in and ask. They will tell you that they send guys to every local tournament, they have that one blue belt who won his division twice in a row at the Second Annual Nobody Gives A Fuck Grappling Extravaganza, etc.

In reality though, there are lots of schools out there that don't care about competing no matter what they say. Only a few guys compete, and they just compete in the Second Annual Nobody Gives A Fuck Grappling Extravaganza. You won't see them on the medal list at any major tournament.

Pretty much all the guys who medal at big tournaments have a structure to their training. You'd think that would pass the message along, but like I said not really. I don't believe the deficiency is really fixable at this point. You just have to find a place that actually has a structure if you want to be good. Those places are actually the minority of all BJJ schools, so you might have trouble finding one.

Otherwise you are forced to just embrace the sucky method and feign enough excitement for the new random technique of the day to compensate for the deep frustration you feel knowing that you are not really making any progress and the nagging fear you feel when a visitor drops in from out of town.

 

[Anthas]

The lack of a curriculum is my main concern with my actual gym... Actually, I don't think there is one technique that I use which I've learned in there... which is just crazy! They are good guys and pretty good competitors, and I understand that the advanced belts need some fresh and flashy stuff to keep on being motivated, but for those of us who are still learning the fundamentals it's just wrong... I think I'm going to have to make a gym change unfortunately...:icon_sad:

 

[drobins427]

Something that may help you is to bring a notebook to class with you, preferably like a 5 subject notebook to keep different positions seperated. Right down notes on techniques you do in class and you can go back at any time and review the material, or ask your instructor to show you if you missed a detail or two.

 

[Anthas]

I also recommend cheking out some of the stephan kesting apps and Roy dean's blue belt requirements... It has helped me a lot giving me a structure to follow.

 

[The Cicada]

jiu jitsu is all about flowing and having an understanding of what to do from every position.. When a person has no foundation they have no flow. A beginner needs to know what to do from every position even if it is vanilla.