UFC rejected by media companies (asking price for TV Deal)

[tithas]

This isn't up for speculation it is widely reported and out in the open, you can pick whatever source you like
https://www.mmafighting.com/2016/10...ed-due-to-large-debt-financed-in-ufc-purchase


When people on here, some in particular, keep repeating 'the UFC is making 150 million in profit' it is ignoring the point that over 100m is required, something more in the course of 120m, just to pay the interest on their debt service. If this is repeated inaccurately out of ignorance or intentionally I can't say.

Hmmm well the only thing I see is WME took out more debt to buy UFC but no one actually knows what the APR on said debt is. They SPECULATE it could be 7.5% but even then debt payments are not as easy as taking existing debt and multiplying it by APR. The truth is no one has any clue as to what the actual debt payments WME took in are because debt is never a straight calculation in corporate finance. Its infinitely more complicated than we owe xxx and APR is y. I'm not saying you are wrong but there is no guarantee you are right either.

 

[BWC]

I mean they're on there now and I'd assume if Fox wanted to pay them for it, they would've by now. PBC is still buying time on television networks and burning through other people's money like they're WSOF.

Their FOX ratings are very comparable to UFC ratings. If UFC can get 200mm a year, PBC can get at least 100mm.

 

[BionicCommando]

Their FOX ratings are very comparable to UFC ratings. If UFC can get 200mm a year, PBC can get at least 100mm.

If Fox wanted to pay them for it, they would've.


"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

 

[Bartinho]

I suspect there is a similar negotiation process with TV deals for other sports, although MMA is considered more niche and risqué.

 

[koclem]

I guess they can make an offer.
Since UFC is currently valued at $5b, Viacom can offer $6 & I'm pretty positive WME/SLP would listen

 

[pilgrim4702]

Alrighty my friend let's parse this together.



Well first and foremost, this is all theoretical in nature. You said we were arguing just numbers and now we're venturing into could be/maybe hypos.

What we cannot deny is that the UFC holds PPVs with champions on a near 99% basis since about 2014. There are off the top of my head only three fights that were champion-less and those were really extenuating circumstances. Diaz/McGregor I, Diaz/McGregor II and Diaz/Silva. We HAVE seen events get cancelled without title fights numerous times. Dare I say more often than we'd all like to admit. We HAVE seen them move fights off PPV and onto free TV due to the title fight falling out. The UFC execs have discussed how their entire PPV model is based upon title fights.

Being a champ has a value---especially one who rarely pulls out of fights.




I mean all of this can't be proven so again, I'm not sure what we're arguing. We've gone from what we know (Mighty Mouse PPVs bring in about 2 mil in revenue) to debating some hypothetical 125er who could headline a PPV that's not Demetrious Johnson. I'd just point out that flyweight headliners aren't exactly doing gangbuster TV numbers to suggest there's an overwhelming demand for flyweights NOT named Demetriousd Johnson.




For starters, AGAIN, we can't prove that. Moving forward, do you think the UFC alll things considered made more money on a Mighty Mouse event where he does 125 to 150K or UFC 213 and UFC 215?



They've never lost money with him headlning an event so.....okay? If your arguing that they're losing money compared to what other fighters draw, I'd just shrug and point out that TJ Dillashaw, Robert Whittaker and Amanda Nunes have all drawn on the same level as him so what necessarily makes him the cause for concern. Do you think Rose/Joanna II outdraws Mighty Mouse on his own vs -insert fighter here-.



Because I've explained to you that he saves PPVs from being cancelled. UFC 178, UFC 190 etc etc etc. He absolutely kept those events from getting cancelled.



Well again, this is a theoretical BUT on Fox, he's drawn some pretty impressive numbers in his history. I believe he still has thie highest drawing July UFC event BUT I may be wrong there. The more recent shows on Fox have been a drag but Maia-Condit did poorly, Gastelum-Weidman did poorly and I wouldn't say those four are hurting the UFC's bottom line any. Pretty sure his headliner on FS1 outdrew Joanna vs Claudia in the same year.




Here's where we have the disconnect IMO. You're disputing something that's factually been discussed and proven; he brings in revenue. We can debate whether his revenue is good or bad---but the idea that he costs them money can't be proven. You can be right if you argue he's among the lowest drawing champions in the UFC, I can be right by saying even if that's the case, he still has generated a profit. Not sure what else we're debating at this point.

Mm numbers are total shit. The sport dies if it's future was left in his hands. You mention Whitaker and nunes. Compared to mm they are relatively new champs. Mm is an established champion and his numbers are abysmal and in the toilet. Not sure how you can spin that any other way.

 

[Fraz]

Fertittas buy the ufc in a few years for $2 million again.

 

[BionicCommando]

Mm numbers are total shit. The sport dies if it's future was left in his hands. You mention Whitaker and nunes. Compared to mm they are relatively new champs. Mm is an established champion and his numbers are abysmal and in the toilet. Not sure how you can spin that any other way.

See to me the point of the discussion was profitability. When he headlines events, they are profitable.

Also Nunes got two high level major exposure type fights which should've made her a star. Mighty Mouse had no sort of booster seat to stardom. Nunes probably cost the UFC more with IFW than Mighty Mouse has EARNED in his entire career.

 

[msm1981]

The only way I could see UFC getting anywhere near
that kind of money is offering title fights and the major
level fighters outside of PPV & UFC On Fox events
since a card of caliber level fighters would draw well on
free TV.

 

[pilgrim4702]

See to me the point of the discussion was profitability. When he headlines events, they are profitable.

Also Nunes got two high level major exposure type fights which should've made her a star. Mighty Mouse had no sort of booster seat to stardom. Nunes probably cost the UFC more with IFW than Mighty Mouse has EARNED in his entire career.

Nunes battering the living shit out of Ronda is more fan friendly and entertaining than the sum of mm's career. Hence why his numbers are worse than nunes.

 

[BionicCommando]

Nunes battering the living shit out of Ronda is more fan friendly and entertaining than the sum of mm's career. Hence why his numbers are worse than nunes.

This is, as they say, your opinion man.

And headliner Nunes did MM numbers and chances are her next fight will dip waaaaay below the MM threshold.

 

[BionicCommando]

The only way I could see UFC getting anywhere near
that kind of money is offering title fights and the major
level fighters outside of PPV & UFC On Fox events
since a card of caliber level fighters would draw well on
free TV.

It would require a bidding war and as of right now, the ones most likely to fire up a bidding war are being sued by the same DOJ that Dana White helped get elected. Not sure if it's irony or coincidence or what.

 

[pilgrim4702]

This is, as they say, your opinion man.

And headliner Nunes did MM numbers and chances are her next fight will dip waaaaay below the MM threshold.

Mm has the worst ratings. Worse than nunes. So what are you talking about.

 

[BionicCommando]

Mm has the worst ratings. Worse than nunes. So what are you talking about.

I mean she's never headlined a free TV event so perhaps I could ask the same.

 

[pilgrim4702]

I mean she's never headlined a free TV event so perhaps I could ask the same.

You say it's my opinion, but mm's shitty ratings are not my opinion. It's the opinion of fans of mma and viewers who want to be entertained. Mm is failing miserably in that department, and ironically asking for yet even more money in the midst of his shitty ratings.

 

[BionicCommando]

You say it's my opinion, but mm's shitty ratings are not my opinion. It's the opinion of fans of mma and viewers who want to be entertained. Mm is failing miserably in that department, and ironically asking for yet even more money in the midst of his shitty ratings.

What's this have to do with Amanda Nunes not ever headlining a free TV event? I feel like we're starting to dance two different dances now.

And TV money is locked in whether you draw 4 people or 4 million people. You don't get more if you suddenly start drawing more. You may draw more ad revenue but the UFC's ad revenue isn't tied to one singular event anyways.

 

[pilgrim4702]

What's this have to do with Amanda Nunes not ever headlining a free TV event? I feel like we're starting to dance two different dances now.

And TV money is locked in whether you draw 4 people or 4 million people. You don't get more if you suddenly start drawing more. You may draw more ad revenue but the UFC's ad revenue isn't tied to one singular event anyways.

Your entire argument is that mm is profitable. I'm saying he is being carried. The numbers show he is being carried. The numbers show he is the least profitable big name relatively speaking.

 

[BionicCommando]

Your entire argument is that mm is profitable. I'm saying he is being carried. The numbers show he is being carried. The numbers show he is the least profitable big name relatively speaking.

You argued that he cost them money, I pointed out he actually is responsible for bringing in money. You presented ratings numbers which are irrelevant because TV money is locked in. When we discussed PPV, I pointed out that by having him headline events it ultimately prevents shows from being cancelled which actually DOES cost them money. I also pointed out other champions who draw equally poor numbers and don't get the same level of scrutiny.


Not once have I said he's a mega draw. I said he's profitable. It requires a 50/50 dance for profitability---you need a headliner and MM needs the UFC brand. They profit off of him. He is a profitable asset IF only due to his availability. Mighty Mouse three times a year is, say for the sake of argument, 6 million dollars in profit. Not revenue mind you, we're talking what you keep. Compare that to ONE PPV getting cancelled because they don't have a PPV headliner which would run in the 10s of millions of dollars.

He's not the problem here.

 

[pilgrim4702]

You argued that he cost them money, I pointed out he actually is responsible for bringing in money. You presented ratings numbers which are irrelevant because TV money is locked in. When we discussed PPV, I pointed out that by having him headline events it ultimately prevents shows from being cancelled which actually DOES cost them money. I also pointed out other champions who draw equally poor numbers and don't get the same level of scrutiny.


Not once have I said he's a mega draw. I said he's profitable. It requires a 50/50 dance for profitability---you need a headliner and MM needs the UFC brand. They profit off of him. He is a profitable asset IF only due to his availability. Mighty Mouse three times a year is, say for the sake of argument, 6 million dollars in profit. Not revenue mind you, we're talking what you keep. Compare that to ONE PPV getting cancelled because they don't have a PPV headliner which would run in the 10s of millions of dollars.

He's not the problem here.

Treading water is not growing the company. Going life and death with time Elliot and taking 5 rds to handle Ray Borg does not grow the company

 

[BionicCommando]

Treading water is not growing the company. Going life and death with time Elliot and taking 5 rds to handle Ray Borg does not grow the company

I don't get why this is relevant short of you just not liking the guy. You keep bringing up whose fights are more exciting or who does this or that but Mighty Mouse's finishing rate is up there with just about any champ I'd argue.


Again, bringing in a profit is the key here and they bring in a profit when he fights. That's literally all I've been trying to say over the past however many hours we've been doing this prolonged cha cha slide.