Social Uncomfortable Conversations: "The right kind of refugee"

[Streeter]

The right kind of refugee..... one with a useful skill set, speaks English or wants to learn, and one that wants no hand outs an wants to earn it.


Give me that refugee no matter race, religion , or where from

 

[So Fresh]

That's what the Ukrainian men are doing.

That’s also what the syrian men were doing. Also syria is not the same as ukraine. Making a 1on1 comparison won’t cut it.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Well then you know that correct grammar isn’t a priority if it’s a second language and “attacking” someone at that is rather sad

Calling someone a racist / xenophobe is rather sad as well.

And I'm sure you're aware of capital letters, dots and commas. Has nothing to do with it being a second language. I'm sure they have those too in whichever European country you're living right now.

 

[So Fresh]

Calling someone a racist / xenophobe is rather sad as well.

And I'm sure you're aware of capital letters, dots and commas. Has nothing to do with it being a second language. I'm sure they have those too in whichever European country you're living right now.

I’m typing on my phone so yeah I don’t really care about that.
Well if you’re being xenophobic, I don’t see why I can just say that since it’s relevant to the discussion. My grammar isn’t.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

My god where do I begin…
First: they are not overrepresented in crime based on all crime (immigrants and native) they are overrepresented in immigrant groups. Crime numbers under native groups is still far higher
Second: overrepresented crime numbers are not proof for different cultures or religion not fitting in. That would maybe be the case if there were no crime at all. But there is crime in every society/ culture/ religion. By this logic christians arent compatible with out society because they abuse kids on a large scale.
Third: for that specific claim I said you’re right, in being honor killings being a cultural thing. It does not say anything about it being compatible with western values. Are normal killings compatible with western values? Because those seem to happen a lot in western society.

I think you have a hard time with the concepts of causality and correlation.

1. Are you talking about absolute numbers? Obviously I'm talking about per capita numbers. All the numbers I've discussed are NOT relative to other immigrant groups, but to native Dutch people. Even if it was compared to other immigrant groups they would still be very high, because immigrant groups overall already commit more crime per capita.

2. If a group commits 3 times as much crime, I don't want to live amongst that group. You can argue whatever you want, but most people will feel this way.

3. This argument is too insane to even take seriously.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I’m typing on my phone so yeah I don’t really care about that.
Well if you’re being xenophobic, I don’t see why I can just say that since it’s relevant to the discussion. My grammar isn’t.

It's not really all that helpful for the discussion. Not that I care about being called names by someone on the internet, I just take you less seriously because of it.

 

[So Fresh]

1. Are you talking about absolute numbers? Obviously I'm talking at per capita numbers. All the numbers I've discussed are NOT relative to other immigrant groups, but to native Dutch people. Even if it was compared to other immigrant groups they would still be very high, because immigrant groups overall already commit more crime per capita.

2. If a group commits 3 times as much crime, I don't want to live amongst that group. You can argue whatever you want, but most people will feel this way.

3. This argument is too insane to even take seriously.

1. Well then you should check your sources because you’re wrong. The overrepresentation is amongst immigrants not native and immigrants combined. If you look at the numbers amonst combined groups they are underrepresented (afghans). Also most of the crime amongst refugees is commited by people from “safe country’s”. Wich in facts is a small group amongst all refugees.

2. it’s not 3 times as much, it’s less than 3 times. Crime is far more likely to be commited by natives than immigrants. In the Netherlands the biggest source of crime are dutch/ morrocans who are native dutch. So if you’re scared you should just move to the southpole or something.

3. because i’m right

 

[So Fresh]

It's not really all that helpful for the discussion. Not that I care about being called names by someone on the internet, I just take you less seriously because of it.

It is relevant if you’re being xenophobic. But allright I agree it’s not very productive.

 

[Rocket Punch]

it's disgusting. past few weeks have been a major mask-off for the West

 

[Ramon Antonio]

1. Well then you should check your sources because you’re wrong. The overrepresentation is amongst immigrants not native and immigrants combined. If you look at the numbers amonst combined groups they are underrepresented (afghans). Also most of the crime amongst refugees is commited by people from “safe country’s”. Wich in facts is a small group amongst all refugees.

2. it’s not 3 times as much, it’s less than 3 times. Crime is far more likely to be commited by natives than immigrants. In the Netherlands the biggest source of crime are dutch/ morrocans who are native dutch. So if you’re scared you should just move to the southpole or something.

3. because i’m right

1. Afghans are not underrepresented. If you compare them with native Dutch (autochtoon, i.e. both parents born in NL and you as well) they're overrepresented by roughly a factor 3 (again, obviously in per capita numbers). You're right that other Muslim groups (e.g. Moroccans, Turks) are even worse in overrepresentation.
2. Dutch Moroccans are Dutch, but they're not considered native Dutch. They're allochtonen, not autochtonen. Again, result of importing large group of Muslims. So you're just proving my point again.
3. You're so wrong it's laughable. Honor killings are compatible with modern Western values?

 

[Mr Holmes]

I find threads like this hilarious considering western countries are the most diverse and welcoming countries in the world. I challenge anyone to show me a non-western country with more diversity than USA, England, Germany, etc.

 

[gspieler]

Edit.

 

[gspieler]

Edit

 

[bobgeese]

If a black person said that the suffering of those guys was different because they're black, my bet is you'd call it racism and you wouldn't be off base to do so. And yet somehow in this instance, where race is explicitly invoked, its not racism. I don't think those reporters and officials are die hard racists necessarily but in the heat of the moment they said something that was pretty racist. At least we agree it was at the very least incredibly unprofessional.

I would call it stupid, because I'm not an emotionally driven thinker. Many would call me heartless because of that.






I grew up when racism was racism, not an exercise in labeling anything you hear that could possibly be taken as offensive.

 

[method115]

I want to preface this by saying that the situation in the Ukraine is tragic, and civilians looking to leave the country should be welcomed by others who have the capacity to take them in.

With that being said, the Ukrainian crisis has highlighted the disparate response by the western world in how it perceives and treats refugees. Some people have been very blunt in their assessment of the situation

"These are not refugees from Syria, these are from Ukraine, they are Christians, they are white, they look very similar to us."

“It’s really emotional for me because I see European people with blue eyes and blonde hair being killed…”

There are dozens of examples of this, but you get my point - the humanitarian response to the Ukrainian crisis has been overwhelming, with millions of dollars being donated to help provide aide, countries opening their borders to welcome displaced people. Canada is even offering immediate work permits and access to social services, while some of our universities are eliminating tuition for foreign students from the Ukraine.

I am not principally opposed to any of these things - I think that when you have the ability to help, you should help. I am more interested in hearing your thoughts as to why there is a double standard - the notion of a "good refugee" and a "bad refugee". Is it something as simple as race, or are their dimensions of the Ukrainian conflict that make the world more sympathetic to their displacement?

I remember people in Europe being very sympathetic to Muslim refugees Canada as well. Not sure where you are getting this idea that there is a double standard. Now later on once the crime increased people did become more hesitant but that was much later.

 

[Sir Punchalot]

"The West wants white immigrants." Such a desperate and retarded take given that the vast majority of the people we take in are of non-western backgrounds, with most of them coming from places like Somalia and the most fucked up countries in the Middle East. We take people in and help them based on an assessment of their needs, not their fucking skin color.

 

[MaxMMA]

Did these news anchors really say that Ukrainians were "The right kind of refugee." Aka, being white or where these statements taken out of context?

Feels like that's something the mobs would have had them fired over.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Turkey was and still is being paid to take on refugees. I think that should be stayed far more than it is

while Egypt took almost no one , despite having been a country with Syria.

I think the fixation on color is in reaction to liberals saying they don’t want Ukrainians due to their whiteness. I’ve seen that posted multiple times. Taking in people that you share a common culture with and genetics makes sense. I think denying them due to their race despite their similarities is the overlooked hot take here.

former Soviet republics? I don’t know. Tbh why are too far but it’d be interesting to see where the Kazakhstan refugees would have gone if the unrest was worse. China is close but it’s the mountainous area. The other Stans are small and unable to take care of anyone. It wouldn’t be Russia Iran can’t help anyone in its current state and would probably not be ok with Sunni

Uh no, these public figures made those obvious racist statements on air in reaction to the crisis in general. Besides where have liberals said that they don't want Ukrainians due to their whiteness?

We can use semantics, but it is well accepted that Homer passed down The Iliad through spoken word. It was out down in print many generations later. No one would bat an eyelid at "Homer literally wrote The Iliad." Likewise, if you found out that a tomato is actually a fruit from me, then passed that knowledge on to your wife. The statement didn't originate with you (or even me), but you did literally tell your wife this.

The tweet may have originated with a parody account (that Naz Shah thought was real), but she used her powerful platform as a member of Corbyn's shadow cabinet to spread this message to millions. Her 'apology' was also contrite. She tried to pretend it was an accident she pressed three different buttons, and only realised after the backlash. Nevermind she has form for this. Check out her support for necklacing* percieved race traitors and collaborators.

Imagine being a 12 year old gangrape victim in her ward, who sees her elected representative backing the abusers because you are the wrong colour to be a victim.

*necklacing is a form of torture that involved burning people to death in apartheid era South Africa.

You said she "literally" told them that, its not semantics to point out she didn't. Its really shitty sure but its not relevant to the Ukraine crisis. You said you saw black and brown people being highly offended by the acceptance of these refugees and have yet to produce a single example, much less one of a relevant public figure.

Edit.

Edit

I would call it stupid, because I'm not an emotionally driven thinker. Many would call me heartless because of that.






I grew up when racism was racism, not an exercise in labeling anything you hear that could possibly be taken as offensive.

So even when there's multiple, explicit references to race as the distinguishing factor as to why these refugees matter more its still not racism. Weird logic but okay.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

TL/DR TS: Wah muh racism!!!

Ukraine is in Europe. Funny how the Gulf States took no refugees from Syria, despite having a shared culture and religion. Where they could integrate well, and all

Syria is a Levantine state that has much more in common with fellow Levantine countries (not Gulf states) like Lebanon and Jordan which have taken in more refugees than European countries despite their own economic hardships.

Heres a breakdown of who took in Syrian Refugees.

Turkey 3,685,839
Lebanon 851,718
Jordan 668,332
Germany 616,325
Iraq 345,952
Egypt 133,568
Sweden 114,995
Sudan 93,490
Austria 57,887
Greece 38,496
Netherlands 37,792
France 23,510
Switzerland 20,043

https://www.statista.com/statistics/740233/major-syrian-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/

 

[ElKarlo]

Syria is a Levantine state that has much more in common with fellow Levantine countries (not Gulf states) like Lebanon and Jordan which have taken in more refugees than European countries despite their own economic hardships.

Heres a breakdown of who took in Syrian Refugees.

Turkey 3,685,839
Lebanon 851,718
Jordan 668,332
Germany 616,325
Iraq 345,952
Egypt 133,568
Sweden 114,995
Sudan 93,490
Austria 57,887
Greece 38,496
Netherlands 37,792
France 23,510
Switzerland 20,043

https://www.statista.com/statistics/740233/major-syrian-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/

Again Turkey gets paid for theirs

Egypt and Syria were the same country in barely living memory. They could def so far more