Unpopular opinion: as a martial arts super fanatic....

Jew Jif Shoes said:
You typed an awful lot just to be completely wrong. Yeah, going to the ground against multiple dudes in a street fight is a bad idea, but chances are multiple dude are gonna whoop your ass in a street fight anyway. If it's one on one, putting someone on their back is the easiest and safest way to end a fight with an untrained individual.
Click to expand...

Judo. Natan Schulte. Get educated. Watch some tape.
 
Jew Jif Shoes said:
You typed an awful lot just to be completely wrong. Yeah, going to the ground against multiple dudes in a street fight is a bad idea, but chances are multiple dude are gonna whoop your ass in a street fight anyway. If it's one on one, putting someone on their back is the easiest and safest way to end a fight with an untrained individual.
Click to expand...

If you’re fighting multiple guys who really want to beat you up, knowing how to grapple (wrestling in particular) is more important than striking imo, but your 40 time is even more important.
 
TheChance said:
Stopped reading
Click to expand...

I was aboot to do the same, but it gets really good.

"On a side note i used to be a fan of shoes and all forms of leg attacks to the head of a downed opponent." is my favourite line.
 
Jpenwell14 said:
Judo. Natan Schulte. Get educated. Watch some tape.
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with your post being full of shit? Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu can put an untrained person on their back and end a fight fairly quickly from there.
 
SuperNerd said:
I was aboot to do the same, but it gets really good.

"On a side note i used to be a fan of shoes and all forms of leg attacks to the head of a downed opponent." is my favourite line.
Click to expand...
So TS is Allan Goes and what is left of his brain?
 
dirtroller said:
If you’re fighting multiple guys who really want to beat you up, knowing how to grapple (wrestling in particular) is more important than striking imo, but your 40 time is even more important.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's important to know how to grapple, and especially to be able to defend a takedown or get up after being taken down, but in general going to the ground is gonna be a bad idea against multiple opponents. I also emphatically agree with your last point; if you're getting attacked by multiple opponents, you'd best haul ass.
 
At the end of the day

The current mixed martial arts that is practiced globally is downright effective in the gyms and in the goddam “skreets”!

Its more mixed and more effective than its ever been. Theres never been a time where we can draw so much from every art as we can today.
 
Jpenwell14 said:
Most of grappling arts are parlor tricks at worst and insurance policies at best (the lone exception seems to be purist judo). All things being equal most approaches to grappling in mma have rightfully become the liability they actually are, and are rarely much more than a way to survive. If dealing with multiple opponent 8even something as deadly as back mount body triangle is a liability, and the tendency to allow a tap instead of breaking something is a bad habit. Shout out to natan schulte my favorite grappler in all of mma right now. Sorry to my favorite parlor trick the imanari roll. You look cool but i can't rely on you in live combat. In real life things like Schaub vs cyborg happen because i don't have to agree to grapple with you. That being said the ability to grapple in open space off of overhooks becomes that much more important. And the ability to use the ground as a fight ending element should be the focus of any true martial artist or combat teacher imo.

At the same time most striking arts are very similar to dance choreography, and those who simply imitate techniques tend to do so poorly. Again i do not have to choose to engage you. This means if i can't kick you at range or throw you off an overhook when we clash, my mid range game is going to be severely limited based on what my opponent agrees to. Again with all the love of technique i have, i hate to say this but it's no wonder why people mock kung fu, karate, taekwondo, where points are more important than damage, or all varieties of boxing and kickboxing where gloves and ten counts skew results.
Shout out to jorge masvidal for becoming a supremely interesting example of what boxing and muay thai can be in real combat given the chance to properly grow.

Thats not to say there isn't anything good in there. Lord knows its in the technique waiting to be rediscovered and in the fighter waiting to blossom. Right now mma is headed in that direction, the right direction and as such martial arts continue to grow.

On a side note i used to be a fan of shoes and all forms of leg attacks to the head of a downed opponent. I've come to accept that for the longevity of the sport some elements are limited on purpose. Mainly finishing someone off of a knockdown. But I've come to realize a part of it is redundant like of course you would get stomped out on concrete, and a part of it is very noble and honorable, just because I can hurt someone that bad sometimes there is just more skill involved in stopping them without endangering their lives.

Good grappling or striking makes someone give up. In the absence of that, it takes a higher level of understanding of technique and preparing the body every day to overcome someone else's will. Things like 25 minute fights, or crazier like 100 man kumite in kyokushin, or 300+ match record in muay thai or really old school grappling matches, they can be difficult to watch but i suppose it's important to remember some people don't have a will you can break. I hope the ufc continues to progress towards highly skilled bareknuckle boxing, lethwei, kyokushin and judo oriented flash grappling because for my money, time and fanaticism I'm only interested in seeing exactly how real it can get at its peak without sacrificing fighter longevity because it's only because of them we get to see the true beauty of the technique anyways.

Just my two cents for the day.
Click to expand...
I'm on board with some of this- in fact alot of grappling in mma/2020 has become mostly of a defensive nature .... complete contrast of 10- 20 years ago.
 
Jpenwell14 said:
Most of grappling arts are parlor tricks at worst and insurance policies at best (the lone exception seems to be purist judo). All things being equal most approaches to grappling in mma have rightfully become the liability they actually are, and are rarely much more than a way to survive. If dealing with multiple opponent 8even something as deadly as back mount body triangle is a liability, and the tendency to allow a tap instead of breaking something is a bad habit. Shout out to natan schulte my favorite grappler in all of mma right now. Sorry to my favorite parlor trick the imanari roll. You look cool but i can't rely on you in live combat. In real life things like Schaub vs cyborg happen because i don't have to agree to grapple with you. That being said the ability to grapple in open space off of overhooks becomes that much more important. And the ability to use the ground as a fight ending element should be the focus of any true martial artist or combat teacher imo.

At the same time most striking arts are very similar to dance choreography, and those who simply imitate techniques tend to do so poorly. Again i do not have to choose to engage you. This means if i can't kick you at range or throw you off an overhook when we clash, my mid range game is going to be severely limited based on what my opponent agrees to. Again with all the love of technique i have, i hate to say this but it's no wonder why people mock kung fu, karate, taekwondo, where points are more important than damage, or all varieties of boxing and kickboxing where gloves and ten counts skew results.
Shout out to jorge masvidal for becoming a supremely interesting example of what boxing and muay thai can be in real combat given the chance to properly grow.

Thats not to say there isn't anything good in there. Lord knows its in the technique waiting to be rediscovered and in the fighter waiting to blossom. Right now mma is headed in that direction, the right direction and as such martial arts continue to grow.

On a side note i used to be a fan of shoes and all forms of leg attacks to the head of a downed opponent. I've come to accept that for the longevity of the sport some elements are limited on purpose. Mainly finishing someone off of a knockdown. But I've come to realize a part of it is redundant like of course you would get stomped out on concrete, and a part of it is very noble and honorable, just because I can hurt someone that bad sometimes there is just more skill involved in stopping them without endangering their lives.

Good grappling or striking makes someone give up. In the absence of that, it takes a higher level of understanding of technique and preparing the body every day to overcome someone else's will. Things like 25 minute fights, or crazier like 100 man kumite in kyokushin, or 300+ match record in muay thai or really old school grappling matches, they can be difficult to watch but i suppose it's important to remember some people don't have a will you can break. I hope the ufc continues to progress towards highly skilled bareknuckle boxing, lethwei, kyokushin and judo oriented flash grappling because for my money, time and fanaticism I'm only interested in seeing exactly how real it can get at its peak without sacrificing fighter longevity because it's only because of them we get to see the true beauty of the technique anyways.

Just my two cents for the day.
Click to expand...
Bro, I know you've put serious time and effort into your post. I'm not exactly sure what your point is or what you are trying to say. Is it possible to summarise in a paragraph or so?

Cheers
 
TriangleMonkey said:
At the end of the day

The current mixed martial arts that is practiced globally is downright effective in the gyms and in the goddam “skreets”!

Its more mixed and more effective than its ever been. Theres never been a time where we can draw so much from every art as we can today.
Click to expand...

Plus the modern division of labor that didn’t exist in 6th century China. People who are good at fighting can do it for a living and then go on to coach it. In most mid-sized cities there are a dozens of MMA gyms with multiple full-time coaches.

How much can you really “master” a martial art when you have to grow your own food, make your own clothes, build your own home, and then fight off the Huns in the morning?
 
SuperNerd said:
If the neck, is the legs of a head, TS might be the smartest one of us all.
Click to expand...
So, I had one year of anatomy and physiology, and one year of complicated health alterations, 4 years of being a Emergency department nurse. I can say that yes, the neck is the legs of the head.
 
Dragonslayer82 said:
Bro, I know you've put serious time and effort into your post. I'm not exactly sure what your point is or what you are trying to say. Is it possible to summarise in a paragraph or so?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Sure. There is a type of grappling that is effective and realistic in combat against a highly resistant opponent and its becoming more and more self evident the higher the level of combat evolution in mma. And there are strikers, and then there are imitators and the difference is emphatically based on the limitations of rules. There is an ideal in the minds of all great martial arts founders/practicioners and its never been to buy into bureaucracy or arguments like "well just run, shoot a gun or assume you know way more than the person who you are fighting against." And no matter how much i enjoy some forms of competition i appreciate even more that combat continues to evolve as it should.
 
Jew Jif Shoes said:
What does this have to do with your post being full of shit? Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu can put an untrained person on their back and end a fight fairly quickly from there.
Click to expand...

If I'm just training to beat up an untrained opponent then technically that would make me a bully don't you think?

Personally i train with the ideal of beating someone who is better than i am. That makes it easy to separate technique from religion imo.

Frankly i would feel terrible if i taught someone to wrestle or box or do bjj or kickbox and it got them beat up... or worse killed.... i think its part of the responsibility that comes with learning about these things.
 
Franklin U. said:
I'm on board with some of this- in fact alot of grappling in mma/2020 has become mostly of a defensive nature .... complete contrast of 10- 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

I think its funny people immediately honed in on the grappling part of this argument. Ive been a grappler my entire life lol.

I think what makes me cringe the most in mma is still strikes like the oblique kick or the hook kick which people do entirely wrong. And many many many other basic things that are obvious but i won't go into right now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,426
Messages
55,490,820
Members
174,788
Latest member
Barbelo

Share this page

Back
Top