UPDATE 3/6/18: Trump to RE-re-allow imports of African elephant trophies for cronies (case-by-case)

If they are hunted legally and have all the necessary paper work to prove it I see know problem with this.

Charge a import tax also to help pay for enforcement.

Legal hunting is helping not hurting.

What is hurting is the poaching and the illegal sale. This is what we are trying to stop and I think the penalties for that should be very high. So high it's not worth it to try.

Illegal sales is what China and other countries are trying to stop to help stop the poaching.
 
Tropodan said:
It doesn't. The local guides who track these aniamls and do all the real work in the hunt only care about dollars and a potential tip/bonus, they don't care how many shots it takes, or if there are calfs present during the kill.
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L-O-fucking-L about being worried about a calf being present during the kill. When a pack of lions goes to take down a wildebeest do you think they are all like, "hey, wait. It's baby is right here, so we better not rip it to shreds because that would traumatize it." 21st century humans are fucking silly.
 
Beta Wolf said:
Can you name a specific example of an animal species that had population problems, was allowed to be hunted, received better human protection because preservation had been incentivized by hunting, and recovered in numbers?
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Well let's start with the American turkey.
 
oldshadow said:
Well let's start with the American turkey.
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The American turkey is a small bird that was domesticated for meat, though. Did hunting even play a part in that? And do you think elephants will be domesticated for meat?
 
second sight said:
I didn’t read a word from the article but there’s no way he’s allowing the import of endangered species like the pp claims
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Funny it;s also on the Fox News homepage. I surely figured you would have seen it there
 
Space said:
Teddy would approve:

teddy-roosevelt-hunting-rhino.jpg

hunting-lion-theodore-roosevelt-1909.jpg

tr-safari-1.jpg


"While the .375 is the legal minimum caliber, there will be no room for error in your shot placement if it is your weapon of choice. Hunt this 'big fellow' with the largest rifle you can shoot well. 40 and even 50 caliber rifles with 400 to 500 grain solid bullets would definitely be a good choice. A fifty-yard shot might be considered a long shot on the elephant, as most are taken at between 20 and 30 yards. Contrary to the opinion of some, the elephant is not endangered and in fact several countries of Southern Africa have been forced to institute culling operations to keep their numbers in balance."
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so what are you saying? the elephant isnt endangered?
 
oldshadow said:
We are not talking domestic turkeys, we are talking wild turkeys, a very big difference.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/one...pulations-make-remarkable-comeback-2D11650347

I'm not sure if we are on the same page here.
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Yeah, we weren't on the same page. I know next to nothing about turkeys; my questions regarding them are genuine, not rhetorical. The article you're linking me says, "By the 1950s, biologists had developed a special type of cannon-propelled net that allowed scientists to catch groups of wild turkeys more effectively, to relocate them to new areas, he added. Since then, the bird has slowly made its way back." It's saying the wild turkey was saved by the conservation efforts of scientists, not people who were incentivized by turkey hunting.
 
OK, the elephant is 'vulnerable', which is not quite endangered yet. There's an argument out there that says the elephant population in those two countries is NOT on the decline, but world wide population of elephant is on the decline so we should not be hunting them at all.

Fine and good. But if those two countries are hunting/culling them then whatever we do on our end (America) has NOTHING to do with the elephant population in those countries. We're just providing a mere market for them. Instead of going to America, they'll go else where.. as to the argument that we will ENCOURAGE poaching then if these countries have solid enforcement then there's nothing to worry, right?

Trump is a pragmatist: opening up the market in America will drive up the incentives and the values of the elephant trophies, therefore BENEFIT these two African countries while not killing anymore elephants than that are already being killed (if enforcement is solid)

It's win win. Trump loves African people.
 
cck311** said:
L-O-fucking-L about being worried about a calf being present during the kill. When a pack of lions goes to take down a wildebeest do you think they are all like, "hey, wait. It's baby is right here, so we better not rip it to shreds because that would traumatize it." 21st century humans are fucking silly.
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I know that's horrible too. But the baby's tend to get eaten or leave with the presence of lions. Are you aware that there are baby elephants that are present when their living mother is having their trunk and face cut off with a chainsaw?

Yea, regardless if they experience horror with lions, humans have a responsibilty to do these things as painless as possible.
 
Beta Wolf said:
Can you name a specific example of an animal species that had population problems, was allowed to be hunted, received better human protection because preservation had been incentivized by hunting, and recovered in numbers?
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Yes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison

The American Bison now lives in large herds, primarily on private hunting reserves. You also have the occasional bison Farm ment to harvest meat on an industrial scale, but those are increasingly rare (I've only seen one in my lifetime and I'm fairly active in the Ag community).

The Pere-David's Deer is another excellent example.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Père_David's_deer

This animal has been extinct in the wild for over 2000 years. The only reason this animal is alive today, is because of human incentive to hunt it.
 
Another policy that only America’s elite can benefit from. What percentage of Americans can afford to go to Africa to hunt an elephant?

Trump’s all about that 0.01%
 
OK, as a business man... I can crank out X number of units of product A and sell them to people..
or I can provide the experience, the entertainment of having the customers coming over and 'acquire' the units themselves. Which means I can provide the SERVICE of giving them the experience/entertainment/pleasure: room, board, food, hunting guides. Then on top of that charge them for every unit they acquire and extra fees and taxes on top of that and because the 'experience' enhanced the perceived value of the acquire unit (sense of accomplishment, ego, ect...) they're willing to pay a little more...

So instead of selling the elephant products, the countries provide the experience to the hunters and make a lot more, employ more of their people. Customers happy. Win win.
 
oldshadow said:
Illegal sales is what China and other countries are trying to stop to help stop the poaching.
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Ya "trying to stop" like they did with the one child policy. If you have money you can circumvent the law.
 
Tropodan said:
I know that's horrible too. But the baby's tend to get eaten or leave with the presence of lions. Are you aware that there are baby elephants that are present when their living mother is having their trunk and face cut off with a chainsaw?

Yea, regardless if they experience horror with lions, humans have a responsibilty to do these things as painless as possible.
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That sounds a lot more like something poachers would do than legal hunters. Money raised from legal hunters pays for the salaries of game wardens that mitigate poaching problems.
 
cck311** said:
That sounds a lot more like something poachers would do than legal hunters. Money raised from legal hunters pays for the salaries of game wardens that mitigate poaching problems.
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I'm aware that these hunts put money into the local economy and have helped some species numbers, no question. It's true poachers have no ethics, I'm still concerned about the ethics of some guides. These governments only see dollar signs so I wouldn't bet on there being strong regulation.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
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