US Bishops Call Healthcare a “Fundamental Right”

[MicroBrew]

Further down on their list is not raping children but they will get to that when they have time.

How ironic that America's most vocal Christians are avowed social darwinists

 

[Trotsky]

Maybe the left should try the appeal to religious beliefs via the compremise route -- implore healthcare as a right as a fundamental aspect of Christian doctrine and in exchange give them repeals on gay marriage and abortions.

Could work.

You don't compromise or exchange human rights. Having autonomy over one's reproductive system is a human right, as is being able to have a miserable marriage with the person of your choosing.

They can keep being tax exempt, and we'll waive the sales tax on crackers and grape juice. That is our final offer.

 

[luckyshot]

Maybe the left should try the appeal to religious beliefs via the compremise route -- implore healthcare as a right as a fundamental aspect of Christian doctrine and in exchange give them repeals on gay marriage and abortions.

Could work.

It’s an interesting thought.

American Catholics are in an ethical bind.

The Church opposes abortion and gay marriage.

But it is FOR universal healthcare, environmentalism, common sense gun regulations, helping refugees, and more equitable wealth distribution.

And it is obviously against irresponsible an unnecessary use of military force and nuclear proliferation.

So the idea that a Catholic can just “vote his conscience” by voting Democrat or Republican is an absurd simplification.

The fact that many Catholics have become “one issue voters” on abortion is an example of how effective conservatives have been at co-opting the religious vote.

What do you mean by this post?

Without the Catholic church there would be no Christianity and the teachings of Christ would have never survived and be known today. It's not a controversial statement.

Eastern Orthodox did not split from Catholicism until 1054.

Protestantism did not begin until the 1500's.

So for the first 1,000 years, it was solely Catholicism.

Protestant biblical literalists (such as Evangelicals) who claim Catholics are not "real" Christians hold a incoherent position because who DECIDED what to include in the Bible? It was the Catholic Church at the Council of Nicea in 350. So they are using the Bible to argue that Catholics aren't "real" Christians-- the same Bible that would have never existed without the Catholic church. It's just absurd.

 

[Spoken]

here to read ad hominem attacks rather than deal with particularity of an argument. Not disappointed

 

[TheComebackKid]

Sorry ts but there is nothing Christian about volunteering someone else's time, money, and services.

Try a different approach.

 

[Trotsky]

Sorry ts but there is nothing Christian about volunteering someone else's time, money, and services.

Try a different approach.

>>providing life saving treatment to the sick and the poor who otherwise would suffer
>>>saving everybody money by decreasing per capita healthcare costs across the board
>>>>allowing for that saved money to go to food, or to the church
>>>>>not Christian because of moronic right-wing dogma

 

[TheComebackKid]

>>providing life saving treatment to the sick and the poor who otherwise would suffer
>>>saving everybody money by decreasing per capita healthcare costs across the board
>>>>allowing for that saved money to go to food, or to the church
>>>>>not Christian because of moronic right-wing dogma

Again, there is nothing Christian, charitable, or Christ-like about creating a system where you volunteer other peoples time, money, and services no matter what cause or purpose of that system is.

It never ceases to amaze me how atheists simply cannot grasp this concept.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Some of the greatest humans and organizations in the world come out of the Catholic Church, though. It's a far more benevolent institution than United States' protestant counterparts.



Also, why is it that child molestation is only brought up by the right when the church is advocating on behalf of the poor and oppressed, and not when it's slashing reproductive health rights, rallying against marriage equality, and being used to disparage other religions? Hmmmmm.

If you use the things the church has done as examples to christians of how they have their own issues, you are met with the "no true Scotsman" rational. Then it conveniently fits.

 

[44nutman]

LOL at thinking Conservative Politician's read the Bible.
They just wave it around, to get the Rubes to vote for them.

 

[Trotsky]

Again, there is nothing Christian, charitable, or Christ-like about creating a system where you volunteer other peoples time, money, and services no matter what cause or purpose of that system is.

It never ceases to amaze me how atheists simply cannot grasp this concept.

It's not "volunteering" someone's time. That's stupid, and I don't even know how you get to that talking point. Single payer has nothing to do with forcing doctors, who remain private employees, to donate their time.

It's pooling our money together to more efficiently pay for services absent a needless and predatory middle man. It's cooperation that saves the lives of our fellow man while also reducing our out-of-pocket costs.

It never ceases to amaze me just how stupid you are.

 

[forum poster]

Again, there is nothing Christian, charitable, or Christ-like about creating a system where you volunteer other peoples time, money, and services no matter what cause or purpose of that system is.

It never ceases to amaze me how atheists simply cannot grasp this concept.

Well I guess the US constitution is anti-Christian then.

 

[Werdun]

Usa is like a third world country in this sense. Correct me if im wrong but what other western country has as ridiculous healthcare system?

Ps. By cutting the military budget in half you could give everyone free healthcare and free college and probably fix all the roads etc and still be the biggest military spender. Your nation is joke

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

You don't compromise or exchange human rights. Having autonomy over one's reproductive system is a human right, as is being able to have a miserable marriage with the person of your choosing.

They can keep being tax exempt, and we'll waive the sales tax on crackers and grape juice. That is our final offer.

Because reproductive rights should Trump the right to life itself. What a joke

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Well I guess the US constitution is anti-Christian then.

Free healthcare isn't in the constitution

 

[franklinstower]

That is more than a bit misleading. Of course a single provider creates increased efficiency in the payment network. There are other, far more relevant questions and concerns. There are even "lower-hanging fruit" to be picked that would result in immediate savings, such as legally granting Medicare & Medicaid the power to negotiate pharma deals as a collective (just like virtually every other nation on the planet does).

There are costs beyond tax dollars though, make no mistake. Supply only meets demand at a mutually agreeable price. Lower the financial incentives, and you will lower provision of care to some extent. Limit the expendable pool, and you will limit the overall available care. Distribute the burden of cost, and you distribute the authority of decision. Reduce the potential ceiling, and you will reduce the magnitude of pursuit.

(Translation, in order: Less & lower qualified medical personnel, less facilities, approval process for treatment, and less overall research.)

That video OBVIOUSLY does not claim to be offering an entire thesis on UHC it just debunks some of the most common LIES people tell about UHC.

Your points are opaque probably intentionally and besides economists who favour UHC provide answers for ALL of this.

The BEST health care is bullshit when only the wealthy can afford it. For the vast majority of Americans the quality of care would go up. Only the very wealthy would see decreases in quality of care and they could afford supplement care


Bottom line. Some of us Christians want to live in a society that does not allow children to die of treatable health problems. If there is a cost to that we are unwilling to pay that cost to get rid the real cost of not doing it- human lives.

 

[forum poster]

Free healthcare isn't in the constitution

Didn't say it was. It is a system is set up so you have to pay taxes that go to pay towards people people performing services, though. Apparently that's anti Christian.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Also, anyone who claims healthcare is a right is an asshole.

Is police protection a "right"?

Why should I have to pay the tab so some poor lady on food stamps can have the cops come out on a domestic violence call when one of her live-in boyfriends starts beating her or her kids?

Feels like slavery to me.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Well I guess the US constitution is anti-Christian then.

In some ways it is

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Didn't say it was. It is a system is set up so you have to pay taxes that go to pay towards people people performing services, though. Apparently that's anti Christian.

The government can't even run without acquiring massive debt now. The government runs TONS of things it has no business running. Why should healthcare be added to the list. Government needs to gtfo and Americans take care of themselves

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Is police protection a "right"?

Why should I have to pay the tab so some poor lady on food stamps can have the cops come out on a domestic violence call when one of her live-in boyfriends starts beating her or her kids?

Feels like slavery to me.

Protecting the citizens from threats foreign and domestic is part of the government's job. Providing you health insurance is not. You can conflate the 2 all you want, but it won't change anything