Law We have another 'self-defense' shooting.

[LangfordBarrow]

this is a comical take. I guess the shooter predicted that the guy would literally attack him while holding the firearm?



the shooter had distance, the deceased closed the distance and attacked him.

this story sucks and is preventable by both sides, but if you won't leave someone's home and they brandish a firearm and ask you to leave their property.......

now, in CA, you cannot give a lawful order while CCW'ing. but on your own property you can carry/brandish a firearm and give an order i.e. "get down on the ground" to stop a crime.

I think the main point to consider here is that the guy was picking up his kid on his own court ordered time. You're already in the wrong. Instead of admitting it and trying to make amends he goes into the house to chase the problem away with a firearm.

 

[n...not crazy]

Yeah that's murder. The guy was threatening court, not violence. Bad guy returned to the scene ready to shoot. He was never struck. He obviously isn't scared. And he never gave one single fuck about the fact there's a guy laying on the ground dead.

This one's easy. The fact that the guy went in, and then came back out with a gun... that's attack, not defense.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

Yes and no. The presentation of a gun could be argued as a dispute ender, that is the ultimate de-escalation tool that causes most people to shut the fuck up and move on. It just sometimes doesn't work out that way.

My question is, why get in the guy's face only after he's pulled a gun? Not a very good spot to pick when you're gonna get physical with someone. I mean, yeah, you could call the guy's bluff and look like a tough guy in front of your girlfriend, or...

Not a wise gamble.

Bringing a gun out is in no way a de-escalation.

This was a purely verbal disagreement, while children are in the house and thr guy has a court ordered right to be there.


As to the victims response I'd say that was vastly more of a reaction than a gamble. A gun being brought into an otherwise calm situation likely freaked him triggering a fight or flight response.

Texas or not I'd have to think any court order on visitation rights would have to think the killer is not suitable to be around children.

 

[MicroBrew]

he initiated physical contact and then tried to rip the gun out of his hands and failed

the momentum separated them.

wtf is this several feet bullshit. how many inches away can he be before shooting is okay? it's a daft point

he initiated physical contact and tried to rip the gun away after stating he would take the gun away. what in the world makes you think you can do that on someone else's porch and expect them not to shoot you?

Shooter was threatening him with gun, so shooter escalated the situation. There is such a thing as reasonable use of force, even when you are defending yourself.

If everyone pulled out guns everytime there was an altercation, there would multiple stories like this everyday.

 

[koquerelle]

Doesn't take more than a single iq with half a brain

Your mastery of the language is impressive.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

if the deceased was hot headed enough to get shot in the face, he was hot headed enough to assault and batter the other guy and injure him. nobody is legally obligated to that.

He was irate but not violent. He was there looking for his own kid on his own time. Grabbing a gun to force him off your property isn't going to resolve the issue. Is he suddenly supposed to forget he has rights to his children because you threaten to kill him?

 

[Dan O]

Was it a castle law state?

 

[JustOnce]

Your mastery of the language is impressive.

Thanks man, I know I'm the Shakespeare of Sherdog.

 

[Poatan Power]

Shooter was threatening him with gun, so shooter escalated the situation. There is such a thing as reasonable use of force, even when you are defending yourself.

If everyone pulled out guns everytime there was an altercation, there would multiple stories like this everyday.

i don't disagree, but this isn't at a store. it's at his own domicile

you can't attack someone on their front porch while they hold a gun asking you to leave.

there wouldn't be stories like this everyday cause rationally thinking people would gtfo if someone pulled a gun and said get off my property

 

[JustOnce]

I wonder how this is going to play out.

It's going to come down to the possibly corrupt gun loving republican AG, and the primary is next year.

 

[Poatan Power]

This was a purely verbal disagreement, while children are in the house and thr guy has a court ordered right to be there.

you're making things up. having a court order to pck up a child is not a court order to trespass or retrieve your child by any means necessary. you call the cops and they retrieve the child if they won't relinquish

you leave the property if asked to, you can't legally trespass

from what i've read the kid wasn't even there

anyway, this "court order to be there" is made up. you can't have a court order to be on someone else's property to pick up your kid. this is why sensible people meet at a public location for handoffs.

 

[Poatan Power]

He was irate but not violent. He was there looking for his own kid on his own time. Grabbing a gun to force him off your property isn't going to resolve the issue. Is he suddenly supposed to forget he has rights to his children because you threaten to kill him?

well, the gun did resolve the issue, lol

he was irate and acting unhinged. are you suppose to wait for violence?

is he suppose to use physical violence or acting this way to retrieve his child? would a LEO hand over a child to someone acting in this manner? of course not

he asked for this bigly. I am on the side of never bringing a firearm into it, however, once it's there and he's asked to leave, he is 100% responsible for his demise. he would rather feel like he had a bigger dick than the manlet with the gun than give 0 fucks about his child.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

you're making things up. having a court order to pck up a child is not a court order to trespass or retrieve your child by any means necessary. you call the cops and they retrieve the child if they won't relinquish

you leave the property if asked to, you can't legally trespass

from what i've read the kid wasn't even there

anyway, this "court order to be there" is made up. you can't have a court order to be on someone else's property to pick up your kid. this is why sensible people meet at a public location for handoffs.

Do you think this shooter and the child's mother were sensible in handing off their responsibility?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

well, the gun did resolve the issue, lol

he was irate and acting unhinged. are you suppose to wait for violence?

is he suppose to use physical violence or acting this way to retrieve his child? would a LEO hand over a child to someone acting in this manner? of course not

he asked for this bigly. I am on the side of never bringing a firearm into it, however, once it's there and he's asked to leave, he is 100% responsible for his demise. he would rather feel like he had a bigger dick than the manlet with the gun than give 0 fucks about his child.

 

[JSN]

i don't disagree, but this isn't at a store. it's at his own domicile

you can't attack someone on their front porch while they hold a gun asking you to leave.

there wouldn't be stories like this everyday cause rationally thinking people would gtfo if someone pulled a gun and said get off my property

Just to reiterate, this appears not to be the shooter’s domicile. It is a house that belongs to his parents that he uses at an office. It’s unclear whether he inhabits at the house as well, but good chance no.

 

[Poatan Power]

Do you think this shooter and the child's mother were sensible in handing off their responsibility?

I don't understand the back story, tbh

from an altercation perspective, though: asked to leave, refuses, threatens those who own/live at the property, tries to take their gun, gets shot

sucks, but it was preventable from his end 110% and he was under no threat of physical harm if he left the property he didn't belong at

seems cut and dry to me from the facts thus far

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I don't understand the back story, tbh

from an altercation perspective, though: asked to leave, refuses, threatens those who own/live at the property, tries to take their gun, gets shot

sucks, but it was preventable from his end 110% and he was under no threat of physical harm if he left the property he didn't belong at

seems cut and dry to me from the facts thus far

He was obviously irate but how did he act unhinged before the guy came out with the carbine?

 

[Poatan Power]

He was obviously irate but how did he act unhinged before the guy came out with the carbine?

he's pacing around, screaming, advances on the guy with his arms up as he retreats back to the house, and continues to refuse to leave. he's exhibiting EVERY pre-attack indicator

then blows up when the guy comes back out

 

[WaylonMercy5150]

Was it a castle law state?

Yes. Kyle Carruth very unlikely to be charged.

 

[Dan O]

Yes. Kyle Carruth very unlikely to be charged.

Waylon bless.
If you enter someone’s property with any ill intent I have no sympathy for a bad outcome. A great many people have forgotten the consequence of action.