Opinion What does "Make America Great Again" mean to you? And how do you see it being great again?



lol...

My family came from Italy in the 20's, moved to Durango, CO and are all proud Americans. They served in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. I have nephews and nieces who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. My great aunt is 96 and still lives in the same house she lived in as a toddler.

She hosts an annual Italian dinner with all the surrounding Italian families (around 200 people show up) for 40 years and after 9/11, she has everyone say the Pledge of Allegiance before serving everyone. She's a treasure and everyone who's from there knows who she is.

I feel strong ties to my Italian roots, but I'm 100% American. Our system of government has issues, lots of issues, but I feel it's still the best in the world, or in history. There's a reason people around the world give up everything to migrate here with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

There's hardly no other place where someone can pull themselves up from almost nothing and live a better life than 90% of the rest of the world's population. Even the homeless have better lives than most.

Only the most entitled claim to hate living here or are embarrassed to be American. They have zero frame of reference of what the rest of the world is like.

Ask 1st Generation Cuban migrants (I know several here in Houston), ask 1st gen Mexican immigrants. My former business partner came from the Island of Dominica in the 80's and he's proud to have moved here with nothing and raise a family here. I'm dating someone who is from Peru. She came with nothing and is now a L&D nurse, making a great living. She would say she's Peruvian, but her kids are 100% American.

What are you asking here?


Are you aware that being an Italian-American, meaning having a hyphenated or plural identity is perfectly fine when it comes to National identity and actually provides a richness to the culture? Same with Mexican-American?

Aside from the weird claims about 90% and homeless people "having it better", which is just American exceptionalism, the rest is fine.

Having a National identity doesnt require exceptionalism OR Nationalism. It doesnt require flying flags in places flags dont belong. And it doesnt require any downplaying of heritage. Having a National identity is about how each of those things tie together, what aspects "American culture" adapts and moves forward with, some of which give birth to all new things. As an example there are plenty of Countries whose original language is whatever, and then they adapted teaching English. So now speaking English is part of their National identity because the newer generations all speak it. Doing dumb sh*t like yelling at people who may be speaking Spanish or Italian because we're in Murica!! is retard sh*t.
 
No its the root of all evil. If you are okay with shareholders making a profit you are evil. Period.

Yeah Fascism does suck you should stop supporting it.
I don't! As I said, I believe in capitalism (and liberalism generally is the best thing humans have come up with). And counterpoint: if you aren't OK with shareholders making a profit, you are evil.
 
My national identity or the national identity of the country in which I live?

Why would either of those be different? Unless, of course, you're not American.
 
I don't! As I said, I believe in capitalism (and liberalism generally is the best thing humans have come up with). And counterpoint: if you aren't OK with shareholders making a profit, you are evil.

I'll meet you both in the middle. I'm not ok with legal fiduciary responsibility being favorable to shareholders, establishing a definitive economic class system where those who create the value see the least profit from it. And before you mention risk, I'll remind you there arent many shareholders being maimed in factories.
 
"Idiot", however, remains meaningful. Trump supporters fly that particular flag with some frequency.
You know, I'm sure you have some good qualities. Try focusing on them instead of pretending everyone else is the problem.
 
I'll meet you both in the middle. I'm not ok with legal fiduciary responsibility being favorable to shareholders, establishing a definitive economic class system where those who create the value see the least profit from it. And before you mention risk, I'll remind you there arent many shareholders being maimed in factories.

Even if profit was distributed in a communist system the profit motive in the hands of workers will still destroy because it still incentives minimizing costs and services which is the true evil of the profit motive that doesn't get discussed as much because it doesn't effect people as much. The workers taking the risk of said cost cutting wouldn't change that at least not fundamentally.
 
Why would either of those be different? Unless, of course, you're not American.

I guess in the way you’re thing to define it, nothing. National identity is the identity of the nation made up of its collective culture and shared history/experience. I already posted something on America’s national identity. We’re straying from it though which is why you see a lot of disharmony amongst the populous.
 
Why would either of those be different? Unless, of course, you're not American.

Good piece from Scott Alexander that kind of gets into this discussion in a more serious way than you'll get from arguing with a hack.


An analogy: naturopaths like to use the term “western medicine” to refer to the evidence-based medicine of drugs and surgeries you would get at your local hospital. They contrast this with traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine, which it has somewhat replaced, apparently a symptom of the “westernization” of Chinese and Indian societies.

But “western medicine” is just medicine that works. It happens to be western because the West had a technological head start, and so discovered most of the medicine that works first. But there’s nothing culturally western about it; there’s nothing Christian or Greco-Roman about using penicillin to deal with a bacterial infection. Indeed, “western medicine” replaced the traditional medicine of Europe – Hippocrates’ four humors – before it started threatening the traditional medicines of China or India. So-called “western medicine” is an inhuman perfect construct from beyond the void, summoned by Westerners, which ate traditional Western medicine first and is now proceeding to eat the rest of the world.

“Western culture” is no more related to the geographical west than western medicine. People who complain about western culture taking over their country always manage to bring up Coca-Cola. But in what sense is Coca-Cola culturally western? It’s an Ethiopian bean mixed with a Colombian leaf mixed with carbonated water and lots and lots of sugar. An American was the first person to discover that this combination tasted really good – our technological/economic head start ensured that. But in a world where America never existed, eventually some Japanese or Arabian chemist would have found that sugar-filled fizzy drinks were really tasty. It was a discovery waiting to be plucked out of the void, like penicillin. America summoned it but did not create it. If western medicine is just medicine that works, soda pop is just refreshment that works.

The same is true of more intellectual “products”. Caplan notes that foreigners consume western gender norms, but these certainly aren’t gender norms that would have been recognizable to Cicero, St. Augustine, Henry VIII, or even Voltaire. They’re gender norms that sprung up in the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution and its turbulent intermixing of the domestic and public economies. They arose because they worked. The West was the first region to industrialize and realize those were the gender norms that worked for industrial societies, and as China and Arabia industrialize they’re going to find the same thing.

America's national identity is liberalism. The good parts of different cultures get swallowed up by it. People can resist it all they want, but as long as there is freedom, they will fail.
 
Good piece from Scott Alexander that kind of gets into this discussion in a more serious way than you'll get from arguing with a hack.




America's national identity is liberalism. The good parts of different cultures get swallowed up by it. People can resist it all they want, but as long as there is freedom, they will fail.

No you've made it that by running a fake democracy where every candidate believes in liberalism. Its the part of the country your average person can unite around hating even if they disagree on everything else.

You're trying to affirm your ideological victory and demoralize resistance.

You are the embodiment of the "end of history". Its been 30 years since the "end of history" and everythings on fucking hire. You can't stop sniffing your own farts. You see no need to appease the people who dislike liberalism because in your world its perfect and anyone upset is an insignifgant irational minority. Sadly for you the climate doesn't respond to gaslighting.
 
I guess in the way you’re thing to define it, nothing. National identity is the identity of the nation made up of its collective culture and shared history/experience. I already posted something on America’s national identity. We’re straying from it though which is why you see a lot of disharmony amongst the populous.

Any Country's "National Identity" should be as continuously evolving as its population does. That includes changing perspectives of each generation, and changing demographics due to migration. People who usually ardently oppose this notion are separatists and xenophobes who want ethno-States.
 
I guess in the way you’re thing to define it, nothing. National identity is the identity of the nation made up of its collective culture and shared history/experience. I already posted something on America’s national identity. We’re straying from it though which is why you see a lot of disharmony amongst the populous.
Disharmony has always existed. One of the main issues with applying one identity to the United States is that the country has always been composed of several nations and their identities, under one state. This division has existed since the country's founding.

The country's adherence to some concept of a national identity in the 21st century is stronger than it was for most of our history.
 
Help us bring back the romanticized Republican Party of Ronald Regan;
In the process; we will own the Libs.



Pretty self explanatory
 
Even if profit was distributed in a communist system the profit motive in the hands of workers will still destroy because it still incentives minimizing costs and services which is the true evil of the profit motive that doesn't get discussed as much because it doesn't effect people as much. The workers taking the risk of said cost cutting wouldn't change that at least not fundamentally.

There's never been a functioning alternate system. Even Marx held that liberal democracy is THE best environment for leftist thought because what accellerationists always fail to recognize is how fast they'd be killed in less favorable circumstances. I've seen societal breakdown where everyone ends up in communes or as raiders looking to rob the communes. It's not fun, and there's no magical system that swoops in ideologically and makes it ideal. What there usually is, is more violence. I'm not saying a better system shouldnt be striven for, but as of right now it just doesnt exist. Authoritarian communism isnt much less corrupt towards the powerful and socio-economic heirarchies than liberal democracy is, and there are plenty of State-sponsored genocides to prove that.
 
Help us bring back the romanticized Republican Party of Ronald Regan;
In the process; we will own the Libs.



Pretty self explanatory

Reagan was a TV Actor who would take one look at Trump and go: "Yeah you cant let THAT actor be President."
 
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There's never been a functioning alternate system. Even Marx held that liberal democracy is THE best environment for leftist thought because what accellerationists always fail to recognize is how fast they'd be killed in less favorable circumstances. I've seen societal breakdown where everyone ends up in communes or as raiders looking to rob the communes. It's not fun, and there's no magical system that swoops in ideologically and makes it ideal. What there usually is, is more violence. I'm not saying a better system shouldnt be striven for, but as of right now it just doesnt exist. Authoritarian communism isnt much less corrupt towards the powerful and socio-economic heirarchies than liberal democracy is, and there are plenty of State-sponsored genocides to prove that.

Getting rid of capitalism and liberal democracy should be the priority. Arguing over the alternative which theres much room for is secondary. Humanitys survival must be secured. There is much room for arguing what the future will look like. Its like not operating on a cancer tumor because you don't know which treatment on the cancer will be effective. Well lets just get rid of the tumor first and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Marx lived in the 1800s and was comparing capitalism and liberal democracy to feudal aristrocracy. This is something that needs to be taken into account every compliment Marx gives these systems. He is not living your life. He is not seeing what you see. Marx didn't see shareholders slowly cut costs and services over time. He didn't see cities destroyed by overdevelopment. He didn't see climate change and the limitations of our natural world. He didn't see any of these things. He wrote the Communist Mantifesto in 1848 and it was written for European peasants workers and intellectuals of that time period. It or any of his works or any of Engels work are not the Commie Bible they are the product of men viewing the world around them just like our musings are.

Also early liberal democracys allowed for more representation then this one. This is why Lenin advocated for Russians and Germans voting. It was not a permanent ideological stance. He was looking at the situation at the time and saying "voting will yield us results you should do it"(paraphrasing). Thats not an endorsement of 21st century American democracy and its ability to yield any serious changes to the system. Said system has demonstrated a complete and total failure to fix itself in any meaningful way.
 
No you've made it that by running a fake democracy where every candidate believes in liberalism. Its the part of the country your average person can unite around hating even if they disagree on everything else.

You're trying to affirm your ideological victory and demoralize resistance.

You are the embodiment of the "end of history". Its been 30 years since the "end of history" and everythings on fucking hire. You can't stop sniffing your own farts. You see no need to appease the people who dislike liberalism because in your world its perfect and anyone upset is an insignifgant irational minority. Sadly for you the climate doesn't respond to gaslighting.
Yeah, I think anti-liberals are an irrational minority. Check back in 50 years, and we'll see if America has fallen.
 
I'm just glad this thread hasn't been hijacked by a bunch of the TDS...Orange Man is bad because I was told so...muppets.

Looks like it's well on it's way now, as expected with the amount of delusional leftist trolls on this site.
 
Yeah, I think anti-liberals are an irrational minority. Check back in 50 years, and we'll see if America has fallen.

You could say communists or socialists are the minority. Fine.

Anti liberals(in the context you're using it) absolutley are not. On the HILL you're the almost 100% majority. That is not a reflection of American life and you are getting high on your own supply. Your arrogance blinds you completley to that.

I don't want America to fall I want it to be overthrown. Unlike you I actually want whats best for this countrys people. But within 50 years structual changes will have to have occured. Whether America is fascist, socialist or communist it will not be whatever tf it is now. There is absolutley no appettite for whatever tf this is to continue into the indefinite future. That is why with the absence of any positive options many ordinary people have went with Trump. And that is fully and completley the fault of the Jack Savages of the world for declaring "the end of history" and giving people no outlet for which to address their greivances besides "suck it the system is wonderful you're the problem". You are the real father of fascism.
 
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Its code, it’s a dog whistle.

“Make America Great Again—you know, like it used to be when white, heterosexual, Christian males were the only voice in the societal conversation. When women and minorities were second class citizens. When we didn’t have to care about them, their feelings, their rights, and whether they were getting a fair shake or not.”

That’s essentially what it means. These people feel that the more inclusive we became, the more they “lost” something. That if someone else’s slice of the pie got a little bigger, well that must mean theirs got smaller.
 
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