Opinion What does "Make America Great Again" mean to you? And how do you see it being great again?

[blackheart]

They're not, though. I think the guy has confused dated articles talking about slower growth in living standards for the extremely wrong idea that they're actually going backwards.

The relative Costs of housing, Healthcare, education and childcare are much WORSE today, objectively, mathematically. It's not "slower growth" I'm complaining about. It's the mathematical objective fact that these things have gotten exponentially more expensive than they used to be.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The relative Costs of housing, Healthcare, education and childcare are much WORSE today, objectively, mathematically. It's not "slower growth" I'm complaining about. It's the mathematical objective fact that these things have gotten exponentially more expensive than they used to be.

Don't cherry-pick. Approach the issue as if you're genuinely curious about the answer. Real wages (i.e., wages adjusted for inflation) are at all-time highs. You have to pick a time from the glorious imaginary past to compare directly, but pick one and compare. You have been egregiously misinformed.

 

[Andy Capp]

They're not, though. I think the guy has confused dated articles talking about slower growth in living standards for the extremely wrong idea that they're actually going backwards.

Don't cherry-pick. Approach the issue as if you're genuinely curious about the answer. Real wages (i.e., wages adjusted for inflation) are at all-time highs. You have to pick a time from the glorious imaginary past to compare directly, but pick one and compare. You have been egregiously misinformed.

I think you would do well to clarify why you make this claim if you don't want to be accused of trolling. You and I both (presumably) know you're arguing in terms of the change (or rate of change, depending) in the overall proportion of the population compared to the total population in any given category one might assign to the term "standard of living", but you don't post the relevant data.

Obviously, as long as population growth outstrips our ability to reduce poverty among the working poor and the unemployed the total number of low income people will continue to grow. It's an absolute fact that dependence upon food banks, particularly by the working poor, has increased a great deal of late, around these parts at least.

While I consider that, on one hand, a disgusting off-loading of federal and provincial responsibility for their welfare onto charitable organizations, it is, on the other hand, a sign that more and more people are falling below the poverty line. I have yet to see any data which shows this can be accounted for by population growth alone, but it's reasonable to suspect it is not without evidence to the contrary.

I know this tactic sucks in stupid people and sometimes that's kind of fun but it's getting a little tired at this point in this particular thread, IMHO.

 

[Rob Battisti]

The relative Costs of housing, Healthcare, education and childcare are much WORSE today, objectively, mathematically. It's not "slower growth" I'm complaining about. It's the mathematical objective fact that these things have gotten exponentially more expensive than they used to be.

Listen man, I know you know people are struggling with the things they need to survive and thrive, but look at this fancy chart about why you’re wrong.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think you would do well to clarify why you make this claim if you don't want to be accused of trolling.

WTF?

The claim is that American living standards have been constantly rising for decades.

You and I both (presumably) know you're arguing in terms of the change (or rate of change, depending) in the overall proportion of the population compared to the total population in any given category one might assign to the term "standard of living", but you don't post the relevant data.

What?

Obviously, as long as population growth outstrips our ability to reduce poverty among the working poor and the unemployed the total number of low income people will continue to grow. It's an absolute fact that dependence upon food banks, particularly by the working poor, has increased a great deal of late, around these parts at least.

While I consider that, on one hand, a disgusting off-loading of federal and provincial responsibility for their welfare onto charitable organizations, it is, on the other hand, a sign that more and more people are falling below the poverty line. I have yet to see any data which shows this can be accounted for by population growth alone, but it's reasonable to suspect it is not without evidence to the contrary.

I know this tactic sucks in stupid people and sometimes that's kind of fun but it's getting a little tired at this point in this particular thread, IMHO.

??

 

[Loiosh]

Deficits are a fake issue.

"Money is fake, we made it up".

- Some dude who's smarter than me.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Listen man, I know you know people are struggling with the things they need to survive and thrive, but look at this fancy chart about why you’re wrong.

What was the era when no one in America struggled with things they need to survive and thrive? If there wasn't one, then clearly this is your usual sophistry, right? Again, for the self-proclaimed best Christian here, you sure love to make dishonest, trolly arguments.

 

[Rob Battisti]

"Money is fake, we made it up".

- Some dude who's smarter than me.

Is it real? Some of it is.

 

[Jack V Savage]

"Money is fake, we made it up".

- Some dude who's smarter than me.

Deficits are definitely a real issue. They've been overblown in the past, but they are more serious now. The difference is that when we're operating below capacity, deficits can help reduce slack. But the current economy has no slack so deficit reduction would help.

 

[Loiosh]

Which is another ideal and aspect our our national identity. Literally had a civil war to try to work toward that ideal.

You’re a clown.

That isn't why you had a civil war.

You had a civil because a bunch of you wanted to break the union to preserve slavery, and a bunch of you wanted to preserve the union.

Nobody was "working toward an ideal".

 

[Jack V Savage]

That isn't why you had a civil war.

You had a civil because a bunch of you wanted to break the union to preserve slavery, and a bunch of you wanted to preserve the union.

Nobody was "working toward an ideal".

I think war does clarify. From the Battle Hymn of the Republic: "as He died to make men holy, we will die to make men free."

From Lincoln:

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.

The Confederacy was an explicit attack on America as a concept, and both sides knew it.

 

[Loiosh]

I think war does clarify. From the Battle Hymn of the Republic: "as He died to make men holy, we will die to make men free."

From Lincoln:



The Confederacy was an explicit attack on America as a concept, and both sides knew it.

Hey, look, I gave you an opportunity to agree with @Rob Battisti.

Going forward, you men shall refer to me as The Magnificent Peacemaker and gently spread rose petals in my path.

 

[Loiosh]

Deficits are definitely a real issue. They've been overblown in the past, but they are more serious now. The difference is that when we're operating below capacity, deficits can help reduce slack. But the current economy has no slack so deficit reduction would help.

I'm not really qualified to speak meaningfully on this subject, I was just soft-pitching a popular leftist axiom.

 

[Rob Battisti]

That isn't why you had a civil war.

You had a civil because a bunch of you wanted to break the union to preserve slavery, and a bunch of you wanted to preserve the union.

Nobody was "working toward an ideal".

No one was trying to preserve the ideals of the constitution during the civil war? I don’t presume to know what Canadians are all about but please stop pretending like you what the American Civil War was.

 

[Rob Battisti]

What was the era when no one in America struggled with things they need to survive and thrive? If there wasn't one, then clearly this is your usual sophistry, right? Again, for the self-proclaimed best Christian here, you sure love to make dishonest, trolly arguments.

Is it historically more affordable as a percentage of income to buy a home than it has been?

Why do you keep lying?

 

[Rob Battisti]

I'm not really qualified to speak meaningfully on this subject, I was just soft-pitching a popular leftist axiom.

Jack wants to pretend that a trillion dollars added to the debt every 100 days isn’t a big deal with a hand wave of “oooooh big number bad!”.

 

[Limbo Pete]

No no it isn't. All the smartest people on earth fucking hate your system with a fucking passion. Albert Einstein wrote a pamplet titled "why socialism is the answer".

When this system goes its never coming back. I'm not at all confident socialism will succeed. Neoliberal market capitalism will die. Maybe not soon enough to save everyone. Its fate is sealed. And its sealed by people like you who believed so firmly in its superiority.

If you wanted people to choose you would allow socialists to run for office and not coup them if they won. Not just in America I mean globally. You know instead of killing democratically elected governments because they try protecting their people from you. Was what Kissinger did in Chile doing "letting people choose"? Or the new trick declaring peoples democratically elected governments terrorist organizations? You really believe in letting the people choose? I'm not saying I do(the Germans chose the Nazis fuck that shit) but I know you don't. You are full of absolutley blood riddled horse shit.

Yeah, we should be more like Russia!

 

[Loiosh]

No one was trying to preserve the ideals of the constitution during the civil war? I don’t presume to know what Canadians are all about but please stop pretending like you what the American Civil War was.

I've read a dozen books on the subject, and Canadians OFTEN know more about your history than you do. Especially the civil war, which we're taught without the propaganda and the necessary myth of American Exceptionalism.

And honestly, Canadian history is boring as fuck. I read more American history because it's a lot more exciting.

 

[Andy Capp]

The claim is that American living standards have been constantly rising for decades.

Understood. Are you able to provide any data that shows the proportion of people whose living standards have risen compared to those for whom they have fallen over time has grown greater?

Speaking again of the large rise in the rate of people using food banks around here, (and if the case is substantially different in the US I'd like to see data for that also,) what data is there to show the increase in working poor depending upon food banks is more due to population growth than a real increase in poverty?

That is, if more people are depending upon food banks, there are demonstrably more people in total who are worse off than they were before. But has the proportion of such people to the general population changed or is it just due to more people overall?

 

[ferrisjso]

"Money is fake, we made it up".

- Some dude who's smarter than me.

In relation to the govt needing to balance the books. Yes yes it is made up. Taxes being collected are basically just the end of a dollars circulation. The govt doesn't need to collect the taxes to afford things.