What has BKFC taught us about boxing as a self defence art?

[Blake_UK]

You say Karate has more hand techniques than boxing, but remember when Bruce Lee said "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.". Well this is exactly how Karate can be at times, way too many techniques including many which are not practical, and not enough of a focus on real combat.

That's my biggest gripe with a lot of TMAs tbh. You can spend years learning a lot of very flashy moves with low usability in any real life scenario, when you'd be far better off perfecting a smaller number of high ratio techniques.

This is also where I think RBSD can come into its own. I know Krav Maga gets a bad rap on here (and often with good reason - its another MA with a high ratio of McDojos) but good Krav really boils down what is the most likely to work in a street situation.

 

[StanClarker]

I'm gonna break this up. part 1.

Point 2. Don't know why we keep shooting down wing chun here. Guess it's a fetish w MMA.

To be fair I have a soft spot for Wing Chun and think it gets an unfair bashing on here in general.

TSF air time is clearly boxing & Muay Thai with their sparring-centric practices.

Yes bad Kung Fu is terrible (and I suppose historically has a higher proportion of annoying mystical BS attached) but good parred down WC/JKD with the right coach is legit. I trained for a few months at a Sanshou/Sanda club and whilst I would still choose MT over it I was impressed tbh.

Well, you don't have to pass up on wing chun as I have. Be the standard bearer. That Sanda art provides the contact end you seek and would weed out the WC go-light-lies. As I said, MT is heavy here, as it is with MMA.

OTOH, on bad kung fu, bad anything is bad. The kung fu school up the road is commercially marketing itself to the hobbist crowd to a large degree. I even spoke to one of the instructors about his and he tacitly agrees. light bill & retirement account are prime considerations for us all. Me, don't need a menu for Ne'er do wells. Kung fu is off my list.

 

[StanClarker]

Follow on, part 2.

Point 3. The karate training remains an enigma. The videos of bad karate classes would outnumber the bad MMA classes, TBH. But this is too stereotyped.

I think Karate more than any other TMA suffers from the McDojo problem.

As a generalization, my scant exposure, this is true. This is exactly how I feel about the local TKD school, though I know I am biased along with ignorant. But clearly biased. Not helped @ all by that flash dance TKD national tournament twirling the baton type exhibitions, etc., etc. I posted.

When one looks at that regional W.S.K.A. 2017 tournament, the karate players don't have any trouble moving quickly & decisively

I'm not knocking Karate per se - I love cross training and truly believe in taking different ideas from different places. There are some very good Karate/TKD guys and athleticism/fitness/strength will always shine but I just think that its been shown that overall MT is the most effective full striking art and boxing is the best for punches/footwork.

Well, I'm biased against Muay Thai. It's too stiff and it's technique lacks the intelligence of boxing IMO - (not meaning to offend). We (I) do have to admit it's effective and widely used in MMA. And addresses the lackadaisical element because it won't last in Muay Thai.

What is even more amazing, all this constant of contact sparring, is that the gals in the 30-day boxing challenge video all expressed a more positive view of themselves and boost in confidence about defending themselves. WITHOUT SPARRING.

Exercise of any form is a positive in itself.
I'm assuming they did a lot of pad and bag work as well - if you aren't sparring you have to at least hit stuff. One thing I've never understood about Kata based systems is that hitting things really gets the stress out after a long day. Why wouldn't you do it?

Maybe this is a window into what karate, kung fu are then doing. Different approach or method. And if you want contact, then there is the broad karate style option Kyokushin or like cousin?

So karate as an umbrella style does address your need, to vigorously hit things. And which would be another confirmation for boxing as even the gals in that challenge video can attest.

 

[Blake_UK]

Follow on, part 2.


As a generalization, my scant exposure, this is true. This is exactly how I feel about the local TKD school, though I know I am biased along with ignorant. But clearly biased. Not helped @ all by that flash dance TKD national tournament twirling the baton type exhibitions, etc., etc. I posted.


Well, I'm biased against Muay Thai. It's too stiff and it's technique lacks the intelligence of boxing IMO - (not meaning to offend). We (I) do have to admit it's effective and widely used in MMA. And addresses the lackadaisical element because it won't last in Muay Thai.


Maybe this is a window into what karate, kung fu are then doing. Different approach or method. And if you want contact, then there is the broad karate style option Kyokushin or like cousin?

So karate as an umbrella style does address your need, to vigorously hit things. And which would be another confirmation for boxing as even the gals in that challenge video can attest.

I agree about TKD - in many ways its worse than Karate. Far too flash, too many low ratio techniques and the points based sparring/competitions hold it back. Again though, that doesn't mean there aren't techniques that would/should usefully be incorporated into your own skillset - the low spinning hook kick for example seems a legit follow on move from a failed roundhouse or for an opponent who is off your weak side.

I currently train Boxing, MT and BJJ. I have also done Krav in the past and occasionally do now too. Boxing is my favourite (boxed as a teenager) and what I am best at but I do rate MT for its simplicity and focus on power and toughness. Again like boxing its rare to find a rubbish MT club. I live in London and there are loads of good boxing/MT/BJJ/MMA clubs now - a lot of whom have good timetables with loads of classes and offer several different disciplines for one membership. I can train 2 hours every lunchtime for example (as much as I can due to work commitments - tbh usually 3/4 days per week plus Saturday morning). If time/money was no object then I would love to learn a proper TMA (Judo preferably) but the fact is for most people who want to learn the basics of self defence in a short time along with some good conditioning and can only afford to train say 2/3 times a week TMAs are not the best option.

I also think the order in which you learn matters. Boxing plus wrestling is a great base which focuses on fundamentals which you can then add MT/Krav plus BJJ/Judo etc. A friend of mine was a decent LHW amateur boxer and is now a Krav instructor for example. A lot of the (fair) criticism about poor striking in many Krav schools doesn't apply to him. Its about evolving what you know to make it more effective, and a lot of it is situational - I worked the doors years ago and that was mostly grappling (with the odd punch lol). Now I know more locks and holds that would have been useful then. These days when I train purely for self defence I basically use grappling plus dirty boxing (elbows/hammerfists/palm strikes etc) plus the teep to control range. It works for me, peeps have to find what works for them.

 

[StanClarker]

I agree about TKD - in many ways its worse than Karate. Far too flash, too many low ratio techniques and the points based sparring/competitions hold it back. Again though, that doesn't mean there aren't techniques that would/should usefully be incorporated into your own skillset - the low spinning hook kick for example seems a legit follow on move from a failed roundhouse or for an opponent who is off your weak side.

Look, I haven't checked out the nearby TKD school. So my view is really shallow. Internet demos. And there are quite a range, more so than karate... think I (we) posted that recently.

You've had more experience. But reading through, you sound kinda like MMA. I'll post about that momentarily.

I currently train Boxing, MT and BJJ. I have also done Krav in the past and occasionally do now too. Boxing is my favourite (boxed as a teenager) and what I am best at but I do rate MT for its simplicity and focus on power and toughness.

On the boxing / MT, what you wrote is the sense I am getting. On the same page there. Muay Thai is too simple in approach, if one wants a thought. Really popular with those boys kicking the bag thread.

I skipped BJJ for Judo for much the same reason you posted about MT, simplicity of approach (in a manner).

Again like boxing its rare to find a rubbish MT club. I live in London and there are loads of good boxing/MT/BJJ/MMA clubs now - a lot of whom have good timetables with loads of classes and offer several different disciplines for one membership. I can train 2 hours every lunchtime for example (as much as I can due to work commitments - tbh usually 3/4 days per week plus Saturday morning).

Those arts in my area are usually in MMA advertised schools, which the quality speaks the worse of all worlds. Me biased again.

If time/money was no object then I would love to learn a proper TMA (Judo preferably) but the fact is for most people who want to learn the basics of self defence in a short time along with some good conditioning and can only afford to train say 2/3 times a week TMAs are not the best option.

From that boxing girl challenge vid, one of boxing's pragmatic aspects is getting you up & running. TMA's (karate & such) hold out promise, but load themselves with rigmarole.... Not boxing.

I want to stick w judo now and postpone striking. Especially if I did say karate because as you say this loads on a more expansive activity which makes for learning overload and time sink. If I began right now, I'd box @ that local club. Friendly, low key but the owner lays out the boxing tools.

I also think the order in which you learn matters. Boxing plus wrestling is a great base which focuses on fundamentals which you can then add MT/Krav plus BJJ/Judo etc.

I see. I think boxing & judo would work too, as I posted. Adding MT, Krav,? don't want to go there. Too hogge podgy. Looking at that boxing program, the big, I mean BIG mistake is mistaking streamlined art for simple workings. Along with the conditioning effort. Oh, no.

A friend of mine was a decent LHW amateur boxer and is now a Krav instructor for example. A lot of the (fair) criticism about poor striking in many Krav schools doesn't apply to him. Its about evolving what you know to make it more effective, and a lot of it is situational - I worked the doors years ago and that was mostly grappling (with the odd punch lol). Now I know more locks and holds that would have been useful then. These days when I train purely for self defence I basically use grappling plus dirty boxing (elbows/hammerfists/palm strikes etc) plus the teep to control range. It works for me, peeps have to find what works for them.

All makes sense. Boxing dirty, me gotta learn clean 1st.

As for judo, we have the different aptitudes. I'm a regular guy. Most of us can do the physical end. The strength of the Japanese approach (and through the instructors) is we all seem able to progress. This is what I first objected to about the Wing chun discussions I ran across, and your Krav,? too fancy unclear, over complicated;? no wonder it doesn't work out.

 

[Blake_UK]

Look, I haven't checked out the nearby TKD school. So my view is really shallow. Internet demos. And there are quite a range, more so than karate... think I (we) posted that recently.

You've had more experience. But reading through, you sound kinda like MMA. I'll post about that momentarily.


On the boxing / MT, what you wrote is the sense I am getting. On the same page there. Muay Thai is too simple in approach, if one wants a thought. Really popular with those boys kicking the bag thread.

I skipped BJJ for Judo for much the same reason you posted about MT, simplicity of approach (in a manner).


Those arts in my area are usually in MMA advertised schools, which the quality speaks the worse of all worlds. Me biased again.


From that boxing girl challenge vid, one of boxing's pragmatic aspects is getting you up & running. TMA's (karate & such) hold out promise, but load themselves with rigmarole.... Not boxing.

I want to stick w judo now and postpone striking. Especially if I did say karate because as you say this loads on a more expansive activity which makes for learning overload and time sink. If I began right now, I'd box @ that local club. Friendly, low key but the owner lays out the boxing tools.


I see. I think boxing & judo would work too, as I posted. Adding MT, Krav,? don't want to go there. Too hogge podgy. Looking at that boxing program, the big, I mean BIG mistake is mistaking streamlined art for simple workings. Along with the conditioning effort. Oh, no.

A friend of mine was a decent LHW amateur boxer and is now a Krav instructor for example. A lot of the (fair) criticism about poor striking in many Krav schools doesn't apply to him. Its about evolving what you know to make it more effective, and a lot of it is situational - I worked the doors years ago and that was mostly grappling (with the odd punch lol). Now I know more locks and holds that would have been useful then. These days when I train purely for self defence I basically use grappling plus dirty boxing (elbows/hammerfists/palm strikes etc) plus the teep to control range. It works for me, peeps have to find what works for them.

.[/QUOTE]

I hear you. I always wanted to do Judo (I agree its a good base art especially if its 'freestyle') and if I'm still living in the UK that will be what my kids learn first (wrestling is rare here but growing in popularity). As for you not striking I'd say if you can you should - I started BJJ this year (especially no-Gi) and its been a slow learner but the fact is you need a striking and a grappling art and its enjoyable learning new moves and seeing things from a different perspective. Boxing and Judo would be a great combo.

Whatever you choose good luck brother.

 

[StanClarker]

.

I hear you. I always wanted to do Judo (I agree its a good base art especially if its 'freestyle') and if I'm still living in the UK that will be what my kids learn first (wrestling is rare here but growing in popularity).[/quote]
Funny, I'm not convinced Judo is a 'good' base art. I feel BJJ may take that crown. The Judo, it's the approach, the philosophy which translates into a methodology which is not driven by that Team Alpha Male gym hubris. People are learning how to handle themselves, not just handle the opponent. It's a kind of 'getting in sync,' then the throw flows out of that. Strange.

Wrestling is huge in MMA. My short experience with Judo is that the approach is better than wrestling; but not on Sundays... if you get what I mean. Lots of ground to cover before overdoing a wrestler. They don't stand up for one.

As for you not striking I'd say if you can you should - I started BJJ this year (especially no-Gi) and its been a slow learner but the fact is you need a striking and a grappling art and its enjoyable learning new moves and seeing things from a different perspective. Boxing and Judo would be a great combo.

Well, I'm not going to go into striking right now. For one, I've got to get up the gumption to visit that local TKD school, and I just can't bring myself to do it. The kung fu school out the road is well, kungfu and admittedly commercialized. Karate would be it; once I'm up for the fanfare. Right now, I'm not.

The other thing and this puts me off about boxing; the approach compared to Judo is like directly different. I have a feeling training one would mess up the other. Best to wait. Put the time to use w boxing program outline, then karate?

Whatever you choose good luck brother.

Well, I'll ramble around here... but I think I'm pretty squared away. The current UFC line up doesn't excite. Grappling forum?

 

[Dexter]

@Blake_UK @StanClarker
I'm not familiar with TKD scene in western countries, but for the national team of my city in taekwondo ITF, for example, boxing is a must, they all train and compete in amateur boxing and have at least 1st grade in it. So I and my buddies never see TKD schools as McDojos, they can carry their own weight in the street situations.

 

[ARIZE]

3 main types of TKD.
-TKD WTF: Olympic style of TKD. No punches to the face allowed. 99% of time spend learning kicks that will give you points during tournaments. Great flexibility and technique, speed and reaction time. Great distance management. Learn to fight with hands down, not used to be punched in the face, not used to fight in rings or cage.

-ITF TKD: Self Defence style of TKD (the original intention). Punches to the face allowed. The sparring is Semi Contact but during tournaments only enforced for the punches to the face. Good flexibility and techniques, speed and reaction time. Learning self defense methods, from some basic judo throws to elbows for example. No ring or cage time, used to big open spaces. Not used to do or defend punching combos. Depending on the school you might spend more times on the SD part, or the tournaments techniques, but also Katas.

-ATA, or any other type of TKD... 9 out of 10 McDojos (and I am been generous)

Personally I see it that way: WTF is a great sport. ITF more suited for the serious/self defense part. Other type to avoid. For ITF a great deal depends on the trainer. ITF will be the one needing the least work for transition to KB/MT/MMA, but still need a good amount of time to make the adjustments. I compete in MT, been cross-training with ITF for the last 8 years, never done WTF or ATA, so obviously my opinion is biased...

 

[StanClarker]

@Blake_UK @StanClarker
I'm not familiar with TKD scene in western countries, but for the national team of my city in taekwondo ITF, for example, boxing is a must, they all train and compete in amateur boxing and have at least 1st grade in it. So I and my buddies never see TKD schools as McDojos, they can carry their own weight in the street situations.

Couple of things come to mind with your post. Thx.

1. Boxing by TKD Competitors. I tend to see boxing like hands among TKD competition videos. Funny though, it's particularly noticeable when they lose to kickboxing or MMA, etc. Mixing arts, I'm cautious there.

2. TKD's Famed Kicking. I (we) see all these highlight reels of super kicking by TKD practitioners. So we have a sport,? or promotional? emphasis which then would compromise hand skill development when done to exclusion or largely thereof. Which would then create a need to compensate against hand dominant stylists or highly skilled hand opponents. Why run to boxing? Strikes me as a reactive approach like Kyokushin just trying to punch out the opponent thru dogged attrition. Then saying I need to box. Another duurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr moment.

The thing I get about all this is boxing's apparent appeal for pragmatic striking talents. Again.

 

[TheMaster]

The Bruce Lee jeet thing always impressed me. Like I said about wing chun, however, does anyone here really define it? I believe Bruce Lee understood it. But is he the sole, reigning authority? Me, just not interested in this esoteric kind of martial stuff.

Wing Chun gets trashed for a variety of reasons. At its core, it is the best 'hands' system, esp for BK out there.

The problem is as mentioned lack of proper sparring and the archaic training methodology. 90% of WC schools dont even train the art properly, it seldom has a chance to reach its full potential unlike boxing.
Plus it is still taught in stages like in traditional China to combat southern gung fu styles not modern day arts, so many people training for years dont even have the full system to work with.

For example, WC has hook punches. Thats right, hooks exist in WC but they are only taught usually after years not on day one like in boxing. So most WC people overuse straights instead of being adaptable and an incomplete, very limited version of what it should be emerges.

Proper wing chun, with straights, uppercuts, hooks, flexible tendon power different from boxing and with unparralleled hand trapping and elbows is devastating. But I very rarely see it even today.
It will come through eventually but will take time. I see BK as the best avenue for a well trained WC guy actually using the system correctly to make a legit impact.

 

[StanClarker]

1. Wing Chun gets trashed for a variety of reasons. At its core, it is the best 'hands' system, esp for BK out there.
2. The problem is as mentioned lack of proper sparring and the archaic training methodology. 90% of WC schools dont even train the art properly, it seldom has a chance to reach its full potential unlike boxing.
3. Plus it is still taught in stages like in traditional China to combat southern gung fu styles not modern day arts, so many people training for years dont even have the full system to work with.
4. For example, WC has hook punches. Thats right, hooks exist in WC but they are only taught usually after years not on day one like in boxing. So most WC people overuse straights instead of being adaptable and an incomplete, very limited version of what it should be emerges.
5. Proper wing chun, with straights, uppercuts, hooks, flexible tendon power different from boxing and with unparralleled hand trapping and elbows is devastating. But I very rarely see it even today.
6. It will come through eventually but will take time. I see BK as the best avenue for a well trained WC guy actually using the system correctly to make a legit impact.

1. Well wing chun is now the best? Could'a fooled me. REadin here.
2. Oh, there's that SPARRING, SPARRING, SPARRING again with proper added. Seldom reaches it's full potential too?
3. Still taught in stages, only aimed @ southern 'gung uf arts.' I see, wing chun is loaded with diseases, martially speaking.
4. Wing chun has hooks? Who knew. Not taught for many years into program. Over use of straights. So limited. More BOXING illness.
5. So a proper wing chun does exist. With techniques like boxing? Flexible tendon power, thats' a new one. This is unparalleled?
6. Wing chun training takes time. Eventual time? Would work in BK (presumably old time China then).

I'm going to study boxing now. It's explanations are graspable, if variable depending on the coach I view. The karate, kung fu's are an enigma right know. One poster said boxing is required at his TKD dojo. Another just said TKD for fighting becomes boxing or kickboxing. You post says wing chun historic practice falls short of boxing technically.

TSF working conclusion: Wing chun is inferior, specifically inferior to boxing. I have no idea, myself.

 

[StanClarker]

I don't now wing chun. Stephen Thompson is known as a karate representative in MMA. Here's his boxing / kickboxing type work out.
UFC 209: Stephen Thompson Open Workout Highlights
19,744 views
•Mar 2, 2017


MMAFightingonSBN
1.02M subscribers

At UFC 209 open workouts, Stephen Thompson put on a show in front of the fans and the media Wednesday afternoon.

Stephen has done very well, until his last passal of fights. Here, against a tough competitor, Tyron Woodley (big strong power hitter / wrestler), Thompson fizzed out.

We see the boxing approach. Then when the really tough challengers, challengers with large physical strength & hard punches, Thompson disappointing.

That leads me to conclude 2 things:

Boxing training is limited too.
The quality of training is paramount.

Which is it with Thompson? For starters I think No. 2. Here's these mitts & pads, staged striking targets. And with the initial boxing lessons and the programs I've been given in comments... Thompson doesn't seem to pay attention to detail. There's another vid of him kicking a heavy bag in preparation, doing some gymnastics, weight training. Playing around sparring.

I just posted a TKD highlight video, which shows some amazing skills. OTOH, they are doing karate practices which are varied and dissimilar to the Thomspon MMA prep workout. Again, fanfare for what?

MMA it seems adopts boxing form, and then Muay Thai as a popular second. And the thinking since everybody does this then it's correct. How then, with all this extra intense preparation, do they disappointing when they state beforehand over & over how confident and ready they are? Clearly they are not.

 

[TheMaster]

1. Well wing chun is now the best? Could'a fooled me. REadin here.
2. Oh, there's that SPARRING, SPARRING, SPARRING again with proper added. Seldom reaches it's full potential too?
3. Still taught in stages, only aimed @ southern 'gung uf arts.' I see, wing chun is loaded with diseases, martially speaking.
4. Wing chun has hooks? Who knew. Not taught for many years into program. Over use of straights. So limited. More BOXING illness.
5. So a proper wing chun does exist. With techniques like boxing? Flexible tendon power, thats' a new one. This is unparalleled?
6. Wing chun training takes time. Eventual time? Would work in BK (presumably old time China then).

I'm going to study boxing now. It's explanations are graspable, if variable depending on the coach I view. The karate, kung fu's are an enigma right know. One poster said boxing is required at his TKD dojo. Another just said TKD for fighting becomes boxing or kickboxing. You post says wing chun historic practice falls short of boxing technically.

TSF working conclusion: Wing chun is inferior, specifically inferior to boxing. I have no idea, myself.

This is why I have advocated training boxing together with wing chun to get there faster. Then u get the manouverability and punch variations of boxing earlier on, with the hand trapping and parrying and 'sticking' of WC.
Also for self defence WC has palm strikes, elbows and chops so it all flows together nicely. Of course if u start with just boxing u can make it 'dirty boxing' to make it more like wing chun.

 

[StanClarker]

This is why I have advocated training boxing together with wing chun to get there faster. Then u get the manouverability and punch variations of boxing earlier on, with the hand trapping and parrying and 'sticking' of WC.
Also for self defence WC has palm strikes, elbows and chops so it all flows together nicely. Of course if u start with just boxing u can make it 'dirty boxing' to make it more like wing chun.

Get where faster? Hook punching? What is wing chun to regular boxing hook punching? We're selling that SBG mixer-blending martial arts here.

And I've heard of dirty boxing. So we have a boxing style or set of technique / uses we can adapt our foundation-al boxing skills to. Makes all the sense in the world, once you know what boxing is (me green).

I just don't see the need to change another art striking art because of what boxing does. REally have to know what wing chun is... the descriptions here read like a video review. Talking about the style as opposed to learning the style.

The latter is how I've approached my commentary about judo. I think for an artist, the time would be better spent in training your art correctly, as made so plain in the Kenshin Muay thai over Koyokushin karate video. Nuts, as one poster commented.

 

[StanClarker]

This is why I have advocated training boxing together with wing chun to get there faster. Then u get the manouverability and punch variations of boxing earlier on, with the hand trapping and parrying and 'sticking' of WC.
Also for self defence WC has palm strikes, elbows and chops so it all flows together nicely. Of course if u start with just boxing u can make it 'dirty boxing' to make it more like wing chun.

I just visited a boxing coach which has a video on boxing / kickboxing defense. An intro. Yet we see a professional boxing partner struggle against Codebreaker. Okay, a demo vid. But the point I saw pieces & parts of boxing defense that MMA competitors routinely don't perform... introductory basics.

I just think the influence of MMA is counterproductive in mixing & matching some technique for some isolated purpose when they can't even put up a standard boxing defense, for instance. Then claim to know about some art they can't define beyond superficial generalities.

What base of knowledge are these tailoring changes made from?

 

[TheMaster]

Get where faster? Hook punching? What is wing chun to regular boxing hook punching? We're selling that SBG mixer-blending martial arts here.

And I've heard of dirty boxing. So we have a boxing style or set of technique / uses we can adapt our foundation-al boxing skills to. Makes all the sense in the world, once you know what boxing is (me green).

I just don't see the need to change another art striking art because of what boxing does. REally have to know what wing chun is... the descriptions here read like a video review. Talking about the style as opposed to learning the style.

The latter is how I've approached my commentary about judo. I think for an artist, the time would be better spent in training your art correctly, as made so plain in the Kenshin Muay thai over Koyokushin karate video. Nuts, as one poster commented.

Some explanation and ideas of more versatile combative application of WC here.
I dont agree with everything Alan Orr says, but I rate him highly and at least he has a more freeform adaptable version of WC.

 

[StanClarker]

Some explanation and ideas of more versatile combative application of WC here.
I dont agree with everything Alan Orr says, but I rate him highly and at least he has a more freeform adaptable version of WC.

Well now we are getting some technical description of what wing chun is. So I appreciate that.

But this is way too much to absorb from a video for me. I'll just post two videos to make my point about writing off wing chun or categorically stating wing chun is workable but broken except for 'modern' remedies. Here's a video posted at the 'good kung fu' thread, as if MMA knows what kung fu is. I doubt it, after reading some of the commentary, as represented by this video.
Wing Chun vs 52 Blocks
538,228 views
•Jun 16, 2013


Dominick Izzo
110K subscribers

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Wing Chun vs 52 Blocks

First off, the poster says people like to hate on Burly. Why? I thought he played his role well. It's the wing chun host who talks on & on & on & on & on ABOUT wing chun without technically describing it.

The host stands stock still in front of Burly with a wing chun 'guard.' Fixed. Then Burly shows how he goes all around it and 'adapts,' defeating wing chun. TBH, we (I) see this same phenomena in the karate sparring and competition vids... resulting in people getting hit. BUT, that is not the object of the exercise. People MOVE when fighting.

Now this Sinister who posted this also references Bruce lee as an authority. So I picked Jackie Chan. For Wing chun. kungfu overall.
Jackie Chan training with Wooden Dummy
244,951 views
•Dec 19, 2016


Iron Dummy

I have the same reaction as I do when watching the W.S.K.A. competition. There's dynamic movement involved. That's the overall objective of the exercise. Chan is throwing all kinds of strikes in rapid fire successions with many, many adaptations... as Burly professes to do. And rocking the dummy which is braced into the wall. The wing chun host in the 52 blocks video is a wooden dummy. Literally (as some poster ragged on me).

Like a boxer is THE authority on 'good' kung fu. That's the problem I have with the themes here.

By all means continue the conversation....

 

[TheMaster]

Well now we are getting some technical description of what wing chun is. So I appreciate that.

But this is way too much to absorb from a video for me. I'll just post two videos to make my point about writing off wing chun or categorically stating wing chun is workable but broken except for 'modern' remedies. Here's a video posted at the 'good kung fu' thread, as if MMA knows what kung fu is. I doubt it, after reading some of the commentary, as represented by this video.
Wing Chun vs 52 Blocks

Rather than posting a vid by Jackie Chan lol, why not actually take time to study the vids I posted by a legit wingchun guy who has adapted the system to hard sparring and an mma environment.

 

[StanClarker]

Rather than posting a vid by Jackie Chan lol, why not actually take time to study the vids I posted by a legit wingchun guy who has adapted the system to hard sparring and an mma environment.

I, like Sinister poster, thought I would start with a well know stylist who doesn't take on the attitude of a piece of equipment.

And, no interest in wing chun. After all, it's inept and impractical save for boxing fixes, according to TSF (w you in tow). Why just not learn boxing? Take TSF's recommendation. How I'm going to proceed.

p.s. My working thought on investigating striking style re forum & outside input. Developed plan for walking into local boxing gym with some pre-cognition of what I'm doing. Check. Other striking styles ranked in order of current preference:

Karates (3 broad kinds) next,

• Shotokan 1st,
• TKD, 2nd
• Kyoukushin, 3rd

Muay Thai, last.