Why does it take 3-5 years for a Black Belt in Karate

[j123]

Of all stiking styles out there, kyokushin has the highest dropout rate

 

[Frode Falch]

Are we really still doing these troll threads?

If you don't think it's effective...don't train in it.

 

[Bamboozled]

Are we really still doing these troll threads?

If you don't think it's effective...don't train in it.

How is it a troll thread? It's a legitimate question.

Good luck all on figuring that 3-5 or more, many more years of karate BS.

Most of what you posted is bullshit.

Traditional Martial Arts the type you barely see anymore does cover the four combat zones as you point out........"dissolve into grappling and brawling"

What you see in today's Tournament events is not really old school (Traditional) Karate as its heavily regulated by the sporting bodies.........

E.g. -

• https://www.teamusa.org/usa-karate/events/rules-of-competition
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_National_Karate-do_Federation

The aka FIGHTINGS ARTS that are more of a private training curriculum...........where its about mastering a system for self achievement.








In the old days Karate high rank practitioners would be able to kick steel and beat down palm trees easy now its just all a pathetic show touch point stuff, again heavily regulated by authorities and watered down teachings. You got to watch high rank students or masters moves with hard, fast, precise strikes across all four combat zones then you'll see its seriously legit stuff that is amazing to see, it all boils down to the individual and how the express the art as well and good genetics.

Tell me how many just in UFC alone can kick like this...............



If you know anything at all about the Martial Arts you would know that Okinawan Karate is the hardcore grand daddy stuff for warriors............. but its 2019 we wear shin pads and gloves and we have the internet LoL

TMA's RULE............. say it with me now........ TMA's RULE..... LoL..........

Nice display of showmanship. I can do all of that in a pro wrestling match. No need for Karate training. That self improvement bullshit teachers spew is better applied to something that's actually effective or has a more prominent role in self defense. You teach an asshole to fight and he'll still be an asshole. Take the mysticism out. I don't hate Karate either, but I'm struggling to see any reason to train it other than some mysticism.

Two different arts. Dont see any reason to compare.

Fighting is not the only part, or reason to do karate. So why judge it only by its pure fight skills?

Because its literally called a MARTIAL ART. Fucking weird.

Of all stiking styles out there, kyokushin has the highest dropout rate

I believe it, because the body shots they do would hurt. Its actual physical contact at a moderate level of effort.

 

[Frode Falch]

How is it a troll thread? It's a legitimate question.


Most of what you posted is bullshit.


Nice display of showmanship. I can do all of that in a pro wrestling match. No need for Karate training. That self improvement bullshit teachers spew is better applied to something that's actually effective or has a more prominent role in self defense. You teach an asshole to fight and he'll still be an asshole. Take the mysticism out. I don't hate Karate either, but I'm struggling to see any reason to train it other than some mysticism.



Because its literally called a MARTIAL ART. Fucking weird.

I am yet to see a completly useless techique om karate..

 

[Bamboozled]

I am yet to see a completly useless techique om karate..

I'd probably find some vastly inferior techniques, and I'm not saying this with an ego. I think certain principles or aspects can transfer to other other martial arts or practical application. I think it'd be much easier to just learn a majority of proper technique and conditioning from kickboxing or muay thai.

Well I did old school Taekwondo similiar to Shotokan Karate, for 4 years, and whopped guys who boxed for 1-2 years, EASILY, in sparring. The guy who has trained longer generally has the advantage up to a certain point.

I'm sure he "boxed" for 1-2 years

But I also said kickboxing. I wouldn't be surprised if any one with actual training in boxing wouldn't just get inside to take away TKD kicking angles and just destroy their body/head.

 

[Bamboozled]

That's a very good question actually.

1. Many people, guys, take it up because they think it will enable them to beat other people up.
2. Then you have the clever crowd, who thinks by learning karate techniques, they have that special edge in a fight. Some clever technique. Tricky, tricky, these folks.
3. Others take it up for self defense, they were bullied, etc. The antidote to No. 1.
4. Some take it up for physical conditioning.
5. Many practice karate for emotional reasons. Trauma suffered by the No. 3's; just wanting to feel better about themselves. The self confidence doctrine.
6. Ego plays a big part with some persona's. They see a Joe Lewis, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, etc., want to be the 'man.'
7. Discipline is a big one too. The whole parents enrolling their kiddies as an aid to developing good work habits. Behavior. Ties in w No. 5.
8. Then you have the competitive, sport minded, who want to win trophies,,, see their name in the bright lights. A combination of several of the preceding. No. 6 Ego common driver.

I'll clear up with what I mean by BS with this post.

All of those reasons someone would be better off training a different martial art that would propel them to a better position in a much shorter amount of time. Good work habits of jiu jitsu, judo, boxing etc, are again much more intensive and IMO rewarding. Karate seems very laid back in most cases. I get the ego thing, but the ego doesn't mean intelligent. Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris are just frauds. Bruce Lee more so. I know Chuck did WKA etc, but even he moved on to other martial arts.

 

[spacetime]

I
But I also said kickboxing. I wouldn't be surprised if any one with actual training in boxing wouldn't just get inside to take away TKD kicking angles and just destroy their body/head.

I'm talking about boxing them. I joned a boxing gym

 

[spacetime]

I'll clear up with what I mean by BS with this post.

All of those reasons someone would be better off training a different martial art that would propel them to a better position in a much shorter amount of time. Good work habits of jiu jitsu, judo, boxing etc, are again much more intensive and IMO rewarding. Karate seems very laid back in most cases. I get the ego thing, but the ego doesn't mean intelligent. Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris are just frauds. Bruce Lee more so. I know Chuck did WKA etc, but even he moved on to other martial arts.

That's precisely why 3% of tough guys are in a traditional martial arts club and the rest are doing boxing or kickboxing. Most guys in Karate dojos are not fighters in any sense of the word. They are nerds interested in eastern philosophy who like to excercise.

 

[spacetime]

That said, there are a lot of kid friendly, nonsensical kickboxing gyms wtih patterns and belts too

 

[Bamboozled]

I'm talking about boxing them. I joned a boxing gym

I have a hard time believing you. If they've been boxing for 1-2 years they should at least have 5-10 bouts under their belt and sparring to boot.

Even though I excelled fairly quickly in boxing, when I started this kid who was 11-0 as an amateur mopped the floor with me for a solid 3-4 months.

 

[spacetime]

I have a hard time believing you. If they've been boxing for 1-2 years they should at least have 5-10 bouts under their belt and sparring to boot.
.

Nope... Far from everybody start competing. Sparring yes, compete, no.

 

[Bamboozled]

Nope... Far from everybody start competing. Sparring yes, compete, no.

In my experience, which is anecdotal obviously; the guys who come in just to train and stay in shape usually didn't spar too often. But if you are sparring consistently, after a few months you should get your USA boxing card.

 

[spacetime]

In my experience, which is anecdotal obviously; the guys who come in just to train and stay in shape usually didn't spar too often. But if you are sparring consistently, after a few months you should get your USA boxing card.

I didn't spar super often at my TKD place either, but I used only my hands for almost all sessions, so I was ready to go in a real boxing gym. They were much better conditioned than the Karate and TKD guys, and me, but couldn't touch me.

I asked to spar his fighters to test your theory.. Got a fuck you in response

 

[BudoNoah]

It's late, I am really tired and google isn't helping me. If you are a karate practitioner most of your belt levels are done through kata's and other bullshit. The sparring isn't nearly as intense as kickboxing or muay thai, the conditioning is straight up wack compared to kickboxing, and its demonstrably less effective. I would even say a guy with 6 months of kickboxing is probably more knowledgable than 5 years of Karate.

Even then, the most hardcore style is Kyokushin where they dont allow attacks to the head. The tournaments are cool, but they always devolve into gi grabbing and brawling. You throw a lot of your honed skill out the window. Doesn't seem every karate to me.

Why do you do Karate?

Not to be rude, but you don't really know what karate is, so a lot of what we do probably wouldn't "seem very karate" to you. Funnily enough, we've literally had someone scream at one of our students in a tournament because "That's not karate! She's just brawling!"

I get it, you're really only familiar with the public faces of karate--the popular stuff. There tend to be three categories of those; the "Budo" stuff that's all about perfection of self and development of character, the tippy-tappy point/childrens' karate, and Kyokushin (and its off-shoots). There are practical karate schools out there that actually do train hard, spar hard, and teach effective fighting methods, but they aren't as popular and don't tend to get as much exposure as the others. Even aside from that, we do train in some ways that don't resemble what you're used to seeing from most combat sports, so without a proper understanding of what's going on, it's easy to brush off as being useless.

As for why I do karate; I enjoy it. It's fun, interesting, constantly evolving with my understanding, and can provide effective fighting/self defense skills when trained properly. You know, pretty much the same reasons that anybody will train in anything for an extended period of time.

 

[Bamboozled]

Not to be rude, but you don't really know what karate is, so a lot of what we do probably wouldn't "seem very karate" to you. Funnily enough, we've literally had someone scream at one of our students in a tournament because "That's not karate! She's just brawling!"

I get it, you're really only familiar with the public faces of karate--the popular stuff. There tend to be three categories of those; the "Budo" stuff that's all about perfection of self and development of character, the tippy-tappy point/childrens' karate, and Kyokushin (and its off-shoots). There are practical karate schools out there that actually do train hard, spar hard, and teach effective fighting methods, but they aren't as popular and don't tend to get as much exposure as the others. Even aside from that, we do train in some ways that don't resemble what you're used to seeing from most combat sports, so without a proper understanding of what's going on, it's easy to brush off as being useless.

As for why I do karate; I enjoy it. It's fun, interesting, constantly evolving with my understanding, and can provide effective fighting/self defense skills when trained properly. You know, pretty much the same reasons that anybody will train in anything for an extended period of time.

If these schools exist why don't they produce actual fighters.

 

[franklinstower]

It's late, I am really tired and google isn't helping me. If you are a karate practitioner most of your belt levels are done through kata's and other bullshit. The sparring isn't nearly as intense as kickboxing or muay thai, the conditioning is straight up wack compared to kickboxing, and its demonstrably less effective. I would even say a guy with 6 months of kickboxing is probably more knowledgable than 5 years of Karate.

Even then, the most hardcore style is Kyokushin where they dont allow attacks to the head. The tournaments are cool, but they always devolve into gi grabbing and brawling. You throw a lot of your honed skill out the window. Doesn't seem every karate to me.

Why do you do Karate?

Ill bite on one part of this post. I train Xing Yi-- that is a hard hitting very practical kind of Kung-Fu. I think generally speaking the MMA guys or Thai boxers could beat me in a real fight.

Now lets see why. Both of those other groups train hard and spar hard and take shots to the head on a regular basis. This is why they get better-- because they are in combat often.

Most of these guys will have CTE as they age. Mood swings, depression, violence and inability to learn do not seem to be worth it to me in the long run. They can go ahead and be able to beat me in a fight. I am wining at life.

I have had to defend myself against real attackers in real life situations. I have been able to do that effectively without taking shots to the head regularly. Ill take this approach any day especially considering that I always carry pepper spray too.

 

[BudoNoah]

If these schools exist why don't they produce actual fighters.

Because, for better or worse, karate (in general) doesn't attract the type of people who want to fight, and the whole ethos behind karate is to avoid fighting unnecessarily. Hell, I straight up hate competition--I am not a competitive person, and don't find ANY enjoyment in it, even though I have done it, and took an MMA fight at one point. The majority of people who train in the kind of karate I'm talking about are interested in self defense, but not competition, and would rather not destroy their bodies/brains doing it, or people who used to be hardcore fighters who ALREADY destroyed themselves doing that kind of thing, and want to keep training effective methods, but don't plan on competing anymore. Plus, for a self defense context, there aren't really any good competition formats. There aren't really any good competition formats for old-school karate, actually, just because of the range it's meant for. MMA is the next-best option available, but karate just doesn't attract the type of people who have an interest in MMA.

 

[aerius]

If these schools exist why don't they produce actual fighters.

 

[Bamboozled]

This is the type of moronic bullshit that just disrespects the art even more. Karate isn't shooting double legs and using top control for 25 minutes.

 

[aerius]

This is the type of moronic bullshit that just disrespects the art even more. Karate isn't shooting double legs and using top control for 25 minutes.

You do realize that GSP comes from a Kyokushin Karate background and didn't pick up other skills until well into his career.