Why don’t some people accept that Poverty in America is a lifestyle choice?

[Falsedawn]

You haven't yet disagreed with the statement "poverty in America is a lifestyle choice".

You keep mentioning third-world countries (which I haven't). I just mentioned that there is a global standard for the word poverty.
The figures you quoted are poverty neither by US standards nor absolute standards.

You are you using your own custom definition which seems to be: If you can only afford to support yourself month-to-month without much savings (rather than raise a family) then you are in poverty. Is that basically your definition?

I need to know how you are redefining poverty to understand what your point is.

I'm not redefining poverty at all, you just desperately need me to be doing so so you can peg it to "global poverty" and minimize it.

Why else would you be so hung up on the definition if the entire thread is based on a relative premise to begin with? Why am I mentioning third world countries? Because you apparently think global poverty somehow matters when we're discussing whether or not being fucking poor in the US is a life choice. I mean, it's amazing how daft you have to be. You apparently think having an income so low that you qualify for welfare isn't poverty based on "reasons" and "that's not what poverty means"!

Ok buddy, keep playing that hand, maybe someone else will fall for it.

 

[Space]

I'd say it's poor choices, possible unfortunate circumstances, and mental illness.

You can make $18 an hour working in a cell center for Verizon answering phones and telling old people to unplug their Wi-Fi router box for 30 seconds and plug it back in. Seriously. And no, you don't need an $85 a month 4G bill, a $100 a month cable bill, Netflix, the newest smartphone or Xbox, overpriced food plus tips, or any of that other ancillary crap that keeps water cooler talk going.

 

[AviatorShades]

I'm not redefining poverty at all, you just desperately need me to be doing so so you can peg it to "global poverty" and minimize it.

Why else would you be so hung up on the definition if the entire thread is based on a relative premise to begin with? Why am I mentioning third world countries? Because you apparently think global poverty somehow matters when we're discussing whether or not being fucking poor in the US is a life choice. I mean, it's amazing how daft you have to be. You apparently think having an income so low that you qualify for welfare isn't poverty based on "reasons" and "that's not what poverty means"!

Ok buddy, keep playing that hand, maybe someone else will fall for it.

According to the numbers you posted, someone making (federal) minimum wage for their entire working life (quite an exceptional situation) would still not be below the poverty line (a) by US standards (b) by global absolute standards.

What was your point then?

To disagree with the thread's premise you would need to put forth your own custom definition for poverty.

 

[Makani]

It is a lifestyle choice. You could argue homeless people are more free than the rest of us who have to slave our lives away working for the man. Meanwhile those people live day to day and do whatever they want, taking whatever they want with no regard for anyone but themselves.

lol, and then they freeze to death or die or preventable diseases! Truly the free.

 

[FacePunch]

Well, this is a shit thread.

 

[Dayman1984]

...because it's more complicated than just "a lifestyle choice..."

 

[Cocrehamster]

Again, my example didn't have Person A with a lease or a mortgage, just very limited equity. When you have to change the hypo, you're simply acknowledging the point that I made.

LOL, unless you're implying he lives in a place worth $5k, he would have to have a mortgage.

 

[freaky]

Minimum wage: $7.25

Annual Minimum Wage: $7.25 * 2080 = $15,080

2017 Federal Poverty Level for a single individual: $12,060

"Lifestyle choice"

You can work more than 40 hours a week. I know plenty of people working 2-3 jobs doing 60-80 hours a week. It is doable but they just lazy.

Not even gonna talk about how minimum wage job is for students and not a career choice for adults with families. But even working minimum wage job, you can make it work.

Also, in your example, 12k is poverty, even at minimum wage they're making 15k. So it sounds like it's pretty impossible to be under the poverty line.

It's your fault for working minimum wage job AND not doing it full time.

 

[Cocrehamster]

See, this is always the part I dislike, after I've made my point and the other simply can't acknowledge it.

I do like how you refuse the accept the possibility of low equity and home ownership simultaneously and resort to implying that any such person must be living with their parents...as opposed to simply buying an inexpensive home in an inexpensive neighborhood and paying it off.

Home ownership as a wealth building tool is oversold when we're talking about primary residences. I'm assuming you're unfamiliar with the term "house poor"? It's when someone owns a house but doesn't have much money for actual living expenses. They are "house poor" because on paper they have a house but, in practice, they're as poor as someone who doesn't.

So, if someone was planning for their post-retirement life and said "Look I have $1 million net worth and $500k is home equity," when it comes down to actually living their post retirement life, they only have $500k to live on. The other $500k is worthless to them except as a debt instrument. Now, you can say that they'll just sell the house but that means they've had to give up the house they spent all those years living in and paying off so that they could retire in it.

It's a very simple and important distinction that more people should be paying attention to. They talk about home equity value as if that pays for food or electricity or travel. Now, the second house...that's a completely different conversation.

Have you ever heard of downsizing? Someone in your example, who had $500k equity in a $1M home - they probably raised a family in their big house, and sometime between the kids all moving out and retiring they will likely sell it and pay cash for a smaller place. For people who are already in a small place, a paid off home means no rent expense in retirement, which is a huge value. Of course, your hypothetical $5k equity, no rent or mortgage is a great option, if only it existed.

 

[MaxMMA]

TS you don't get it do you. Technically you're right. Poverty is a lifestyle choice. However some people... a lot more than you realize, are not intelligent enough, or were never educated properly by anyone to realize that poverty is a choice.

Work hard and/or go to school and all your dreams will come true is what everyone always says.

Well that only works if you put your education/work ethic to use in a field with competitive compensation. I know loads of people that have been busting their ass at shit jobs for decades in hopes that they will one day make a break but they're to ignorant to realize they are just being taken advantage of by a shitty organization or career field.

I know a guy that lost his parents at a young age and his grandma couldn't afford to keep him around when he turned 18 so he got the only job he could get at the time. Fast food.

Fast forward 4 years and he's the general manager at one of these chains making like 35k a year working 55-70 hours a week. Around this time I started a job with way more competitive benefits and I offer to get him hired at my job. He interviews gets hired and puts his 2 weeks in at the fast food chain.

His corporate regional managers freak out, offer him like 3-4k more a year and a promise of future opportunities on the corporate ladder and this dumb ass decides to stay.

I don't remember the exact qoute but Harriet Tubman said something like she freed X amount of slaves on the underground railroad but she could have freed XX amount if only they knew they were slaves.

 

[itrainUFC]

if they spend their money all on drugs and live the streets it is a lifestyle choice. damn keep at it in school you need some growing up and learning to do.

 

[franklinstower]

Imagine if every adult was capable of something more than a MW job. Imagine the competition that would create. Guess what, we are back to adults working minimum wage jobs because there are no other jobs for them.

We need poor people, end of story.

This is the reasons I support a livable minimum wage. If everyone did what republicans say they should do our whole economy would fail due to NO workers for low paying jobs....... The whole argument is really a smokescreen for wanting a lower class to work the menial jobs, pay them little and blame them for it.

 

[Renard]

Actually I'd flip it around.

Having a high income is a choice, a series of good choices.

If you go with the flow, you'll end up poor more often than not. And by go with the flow, I mean anything from not pursuing education, choosing a career lacking opportunities, having a kid born from a casual fling, not planning your retirement, not making good investments, etc. There's a lot of people who live life in "day-to-day" basis, and living this way is a guarantee to not ending up where you want to be.

 

[whougonnacall]

Flipside why do some not accept that many billionares are that way due to an accident of birth?

 

[A.S. Deep]

Poverty is waaaaay more complicated than only a lifestyle choice or only a product of hard work. Example:

Both my dad and my uncle came to America in the early 90s from India. My uncle was a fuck up in India (drinking, wasting money trying to look like a player) even though he had middle class parents, and so he never finished schooling in India and started driving taxis in NYC.

My dad, on the other hand, went to college in India even though he had farmers for parents, and then went to pharmacy school here when he knew nothing about America. Why? Because he knew pharmacy was probably gonna give him a better life than taxi driving.

So it's all lifestyle then, right? After all, my dad made all the right choices, which is why he made it in America from nothing.

Here's the thing: my dad has always been smart. Not genius level, but even he admits he was born smart, which gives him a leg up. That gave me a huge advantage over my uncle, who to be honest, is only "smart" but rural India standards. So there is a bit of genetics that factors in also.

 

[computer fogie]

Germany would be the 5th poorest state in the country per capita.

European lifestyles are generally very poor. They do have good healthcare, I'll give them that. But day-to-day life is poverty compared to America.

Why do you make up this bullshit? You have absolutely no idea what is going on in the world outside your backyard.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I'd say it's poor choices, possible unfortunate circumstances, and mental illness.

You can make $18 an hour working in a cell center for Verizon answering phones and telling old people to unplug their Wi-Fi router box for 30 seconds and plug it back in. Seriously. And no, you don't need an $85 a month 4G bill, a $100 a month cable bill, Netflix, the newest smartphone or Xbox, overpriced food plus tips, or any of that other ancillary crap that keeps water cooler talk going.

$18USD per hour? can I work there?

Here in Manila when I worked for a Verizon Call Center I get $15 PER DAY!

 

[RIPWarrior]

Is there enough well paying jobs for everyone?

 

[franklinstower]

Is there enough well paying jobs for everyone?

No.

 

[Metusalemi]

I never knew being born with limited cognitive abilities was a lifestyle choice.