Why JBJ's failed drug tests don't bother me (looking at the bigger picture)

[kingofthecans]

Cheating is a bad thing. It's what people do when they just aren't good enough to win or can't deal with losing because they are weak minded and lack the skill and will probably never get it.
The whole if you're not cheating, you're not trying bit is hilarious. Lots of people win, they're trying and ain't cheating. They're just better then all the losers, cheaters or not.

 

[nostradumbass]

Your point is completely irrelevant : people are accusing Jon Jones of being a cheater, but even without USADA, doping was still forbidden in the UFC. So it doesn't matter. If GSP took something, then he's a cheater just like Jon Jones.

Also, Jon Jones proved that he's still great under stringent drug testing, but we don't know for GSP because he almost never had to deal with proper drug testing during his whole career.

As a fighter, Jon Jones is above GSP by any metric. GSP is irrelevant today and would likely never be a champion in today competition, hence why Canada never produced another champion. Canada was competitive when MMA was still weak.

Lolwut? GSP didn't fail any drug tests, Jones did. Just lol at trying to give him credit for "fighting under stringent testing" when he failed them.

 

[Yellowcrab]

Lolwut? GSP didn't fail any drug tests, Jones did. Just lol at trying to give him credit for "fighting under stringent testing" when he failed them.

Completely irrelevant point : Lesnar never failed a drug test until USADA came in the UFC.

 

[Cartiac]

I competed for 4 years across 3 combat sports and never once cheated; never poked someone’s eye, never kicked someone in the groin, and never tested positive for anything. Fück you for advocating for cheaters.

Well that is a shame no one ever explained to you the difference between cheating and committing fouls they are not the same thing.

 

[Poirierfan]

Often when talking about Jon Jones, people bitterly discredit him by bringing up his failed drug tests. Personally, I think this has no bearing on his GOATness. Here's why.

Cheating is a part of the fight game, and many of the greats have cheated in some capacity. For example:

- Sonny Liston's team used to coat his gloves with some mysterious itchy substance (reported by multiple opponents)

- Muhammad Ali and his coach did the ol' 'my glove is torn, I need a new one' to stall for time

- GSP's team lubed his back against BJ

- Khabib and the magic Abu Dhabi scales

The list goes on and on...

'Cheating' is not a bad thing. It shows that you're willing to do whatever it takes to win. Singling Jon Jones out is unfair. The only problem is that he got caught.

I'm a realist, a pragmatist. I don't live in my own echo chamber where the world is perfect and people are perfect. There is no such thing as a 'pure' fighter. Cheating is sanctioned in MMA, hence why weight cutting is a thing. If there did exist a 'pure' fighter, let me tell you one thing: he wouldn't have done OK in MMA.


- Big Franklin

It doesn't bother you because you never had to fight him while all juiced up and cheating.

 

[Nausicaa]

Ok Jon Jones is ur Muhammed we get it...alhamdulillah

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Didn't read, but im sure your reason goes something like, im a Jon Jones nuthugger blah blah blah.

 

[ermac88]

Often when talking about Jon Jones, people bitterly discredit him by bringing up his failed drug tests. Personally, I think this has no bearing on his GOATness. Here's why.

Cheating is a part of the fight game, and many of the greats have cheated in some capacity. For example:

- Sonny Liston's team used to coat his gloves with some mysterious itchy substance (reported by multiple opponents)

- Muhammad Ali and his coach did the ol' 'my glove is torn, I need a new one' to stall for time

- GSP's team lubed his back against BJ

- Khabib and the magic Abu Dhabi scales

The list goes on and on...

'Cheating' is not a bad thing. It shows that you're willing to do whatever it takes to win. Singling Jon Jones out is unfair. The only problem is that he got caught.

I'm a realist, a pragmatist. I don't live in my own echo chamber where the world is perfect and people are perfect. There is no such thing as a 'pure' fighter. Cheating is sanctioned in MMA, hence why weight cutting is a thing. If there did exist a 'pure' fighter, let me tell you one thing: he wouldn't have done OK in MMA.


- Big Franklin

Its wild, most HW champs have been busted. Silvia, Barnett, Werdum, Mir, Lesnar, JDS, (some of these Pre-USADA!)

Seven of Jones opponents have popped.

and organizations like Pride openly encouraged and even distributed to fighters

All the pioneers of the sport from Shamrock to Gracie are not only open about it, they say you have to be naive to not know whats going on.


Yet people have this weird cognitive dissonance with their favorite/most hated fighter.

Its literally on some Santa Clause shit.

 

[1King]

Its wild, most HW champs have been busted. Silvia, Barnett, Werdum, Mir, Lesnar, JDS, (some of these Pre-USADA!)

Seven of Jones opponents have popped.

and organizations like Pride openly encouraged and even distributed to fighters

All the pioneers of the sport from Shamrock to Gracie are not only open about it, they say you have to be naive to not know whats going on.


Yet people have this weird cognitive dissonance with their favorite/most hated fighter.

Its literally on some Santa Clause shit.

It's literally about who they want to see fail. They kept being wrong about Jon's fights, and need an excuse why. They come on here to snipe at Jon while hyping up the guy with the most obvious HGH gut lmfao.

 

[nostradumbass]

Completely irrelevant point : Lesnar never failed a drug test until USADA came in the UFC.

He never failed a drug test until he failed a drug test?




Did his opponent also fail the drug test?

 

[BOTTICELLI]

Its possible

 

[Fedora Millionankles]

Well that is a shame no one ever explained to you the difference between cheating and committing fouls they are not the same thing.

Believe it or not, most fouls are committed on purpose. This is especially true with ref’s that are lax with warnings and rarely take a point. Don’t believe me? Just ask Jon Jones about eye pokes.

 

[idlePulse]

Altering the chemical composition of your body to become some kind of mutant fighting-machine is slightly different from a bit of vaseline on the back.

 

[gspieler]

The "everybody is in something" is an obvious cope by Jones fanboys. Even if that's the case, al, that means is doping-without-getting-caught is a part of the game. And no one has pissed hot, over the course of their careers, as Jones.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

I just assume everybody are on steroids. Sometimes luck and timing are not on your side.

My only criticism about Jones failed drug test is with the handling of it. The UFC really did do everything within their power to keep him from being suspended longer. Other than that he's following the rules and I know some people won't be happy with it. They believe he should be banned for life which is a whole another topic.

Either way I'm more suspicious about somebody claiming to be natural

 

[Cartiac]

Believe it or not, most fouls are committed on purpose. This is especially true with ref’s that are lax with warnings and rarely take a point. Don’t believe me? Just ask Jon Jones about eye pokes.

So what is your point? Everyone knows and competes under the same rules, if you are not working within those rules to your advantage then that's on you. Every sport includes strategic use of fouls according to the rules when the potential advantage outweighs the penalty. Unfortunately there are really no penalties in MMA for even the most blatant of fouls, but again it has been that way forever and everyone knows that and is competing under that same situation.

Is it cheating for NBA players to repeatedly intentionally foul players on other team towards the end of the game because they gain more advantage from the foul than the penalty for committing it? No, it is not, it is intelligent play within the rules. Mental skills are often the most significant difference between levels of every sport.

 

[ColombianFist]

If you justify cheating in combat sports because someone else did it then you need to watch something different. If we give leeway to cheaters then we're getting EPO roided guys with plaster of paris gauze inside their gloves.

The "they did it, so it's ok" argument is bullshit.

 

[Fedora Millionankles]

So what is your point? Everyone knows and competes under the same rules, if you are not working within those rules to your advantage then that's on you. Every sport includes strategic use of fouls according to the rules when the potential advantage outweighs the penalty. Unfortunately there are really no penalties in MMA for even the most blatant of fouls, but again it has been that way forever and everyone knows that and is competing under that same situation.

Is it cheating for NBA players to repeatedly intentionally foul players on other team towards the end of the game because they gain more advantage from the foul than the penalty for committing it? No, it is not, it is intelligent play within the rules. Mental skills are often the most significant difference between levels of every sport.

My point is, slapping someone’s wrist in the NBA is quite different than gouging someone’s eye or kicking them in the balls in a cage fight. In the NBA, you are allowed a specific amount of fouls; not so in MMA as an intentional foul can result in a DQ and a loss of the bout.
You are acting like NBA fouls and MMA fouls are the same and that shows just how little you know about the sport and how idiotic you are.
Martial Arts has a code of honor that other mainstream sports do not; if you ever trained or competed you would know this.

 

[ermac88]

Performing an absurd amount of mental gymnastics in a futile attempt to justify obvious cheating is an interesting approach... Me thinks you have a very serious allergy to accountability.

The "everybody is in something" is an obvious cope by Jones fanboys. Even if that's the case, al, that means is doping-without-getting-caught is a part of the game. And no one has pissed hot, over the course of their careers, as Jones.

If you justify cheating in combat sports because someone else did it then you need to watch something different. If we give leeway to cheaters then we're getting EPO roided guys with plaster of paris gauze inside their gloves.

The "they did it, so it's ok" argument is bullshit.

 

[ermac88]

Don’t spin a false narrative. GSP stepped away because the UFC was refusing to implement real testing.