Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Draper, Apr 25, 2018.
Youre simply trolling at this point. Cheers.
How is his total number of fights relevant at all? Not sure why he gots docked credit for building experience in the pros because he had a short ammy career and started boxing late.
If Ortiz is not a top HW who is?
Ortiz is deffo a top heavy weight. I can't argue against that. I would also say povetkin is decent parker being an ex champion is also decent and whyte is coming along well.
Outside that you've probably got Miller, pulev and guys like brazeale.
I think Ortiz gets docked a few points for not being an ex champion but is definitely in my top 5.
I think among a lot of boxing fans/casuals that aren’t wilder fans, he is discredited, but mainly for the guys he’s fought since being at ‘world level’. Whether that’s right or wrong is another discussion, but that appears to be the case
I think you missed the whole basis of that convo which was - he should be fighting for wilder cos a champion should fight top contenders.
Now put that statement alongside someone who has had 20 fights, unified 3 promotions and is fighting a mandatory as well as fighting who owned all the belts in Klitchko and compare it to a guy who's had twice the fights and is somehow still fighting people who the aforementioned fighter beat in 10-15 Pro bouts.
You'll soon work out why it would be justifiable to say that Wilder is spending his career fighting beneath himself and may even go some way into why no one cares much for him, his viewing figures are terrible and his record comes across as 'constructed'
Why are you repeating the same questions that have already been answered yet cant ever directly answer even one question yourself?
What is actually wrong with you?
Do you have a disability or something cos it's really Friggin irritating but I don't wanna be rude to a disabled person.
You seem to be able to type a logical and articulated response with founded reasoning inside...
I've tried asking another user I here this simple question but instead I get deflection and b.shinkle replies...
What is the aged and proven ped user Ortiz ranked on cos outside of beating aged fighters, having a billion amateur fights against unknown Cubans and losing to Wilder - I don't see how why he's considered a top heavyweight?
The only reasoning I can find is that the hype for the wilder fight said so, so it must be true?
Cheeky cheeky. I got u blud
Saying he's spent his career fighting beneath himself as a slight is only true if you a) ignore the fights he's tried to make but have fell through for no fault of his own and b) think he was in a position to take tougher fights when he was younger. I don't agree.
Stiverne wasn't beneath Wilder the first time they fought, and either was Ortiz. This is revisionist history to paint Wilder in a bad light, just like bringing up the (irrelevant) total number of fights he's had. I'm not saying Wilder has beat the best or is even the best HW, that title has to belong to AJ right now based on accomplishment. But the slogging off of Wilder in here is just as dishonest as someone saying Wilder is the A side.
Spare us the childishness. We feel the same way about you, we just don't need to sling insults and pat each other on the back to cope.
Your stupid question was answered multiple times.
Keep this up and lets see how much longer your bullshit trolling and insults last for. Its grown old.
Povetkin get the same treatment then?
You never answered at all, you deflected by posting a gif and a vid of Splizka fight then started discrediting Splizka....
Not once have you clarified any reasoning behind you're opinion of Ortiz lol.
You keep deflecting and hiding, calling 'trolling' cos you can't answer any questions despite the person you were talking to, answering every one of yours lol.
If you had given a founded reason behind your opinion then I'd have put it all to bed tbh as everyone is entitled to an opinion whether it's agreed with or not.
But when you project your opinion from some form of peddlestool then can't back it up in anyway than to keep running round the houses, it would in fact come across as you being the troll.... All be it with the nose stuck to the forehead.
In a way, yes.
There are slight differences....
Povetkin is a mandatory whereas Ortiz wasn't the mandatory.
Povetkin was also asked to step aside for a fight with wilder before it went on too long wheras Stivern who was the mandatory was paid to step aside so Ortiz could fight.
Also, Povetkin is a huge question mark for two reasons - one cos of the ped use or rather catch and two cos of his defeat against price being unimpressive....
Price landed a few good blows of his own and has a pathetic chin.
This again, is something I already said yet you're hiding behind the same previous trolling comments you already said.
Wanna keep deflecting, running and repeating or actually converse like a human and answer quite direct questions?
Or you waiting for someone else to pipe up with a defence of Ortiz so you can mimic their comments?
This comment shows the exact deflection I keep referring to btw.
In case you're struggling to see what you're actually doing, I'll point it out in as equally a direct manner.
See, there can be an opposing arguement of opinions that can result in a conversation...
My problem with that other dude is he asks plenty of questions but when one comes his way, the squirming and deflection is tiresome...
If you can't talk about something, don't, just sit an listen/watch.
Anyway on to the matter at hand :
I do think he has fought beneath himself and been relatively safe to his career in doing so, my reasoning, as previously mentioned, is because :
His opposition rival (AJ) has fought as a pro boxer for about half the time, got half the fights and has consistently moved up his level of competition.
The flip side is that Wilder who has been a pro boxer for almost twice as long and has double the amount of fights, has avoided the likes of Parker, Whyte, Povetkin, Martin (I mention him cos of the ibf belt although if we are fair, he did fight Splizka who was winning the joke ibf fight before he popped his own knee), Fury and of course Klitchko and instead is fighting the fighters Joshua already bowled over in less than 20 fights in Takam, Brezeale and potentially Martin.
Really, it should be joshua chasing Wilders shadows if they're to be compared, not vice versa.
This may be my most pedantic post ever in my life, but Wilder is not a contender for Joshua as he holds another title and thus cannot be ranked in the same orgs that Joshua holds belts with.
Its a scratch that needed itching, you're welcome PUO3
Except Joshua had more amateur experience. So their total experience is pretty comparable, with Joshua having reached a higher plateau than Wilder at this point by beating Wlad (a fight I think Wilder loses).
But I still maintain that overall professional fights is irrelevant. Canelo has almost 40 before his first real title shot - of course he’d been fighting since he was 14. On the other hand, you have Loma fighting for a title after 2 pro fights - after nearly 400 ammy bouts.
Accomplishments matter. How you long it took to make them (especially when “how long” is an arbitrary measurement) is irrelevant to me - you did it, the end. Everything else is just noise that only serves to detract from the accomplishment.
First of all... An amateur fight is no where near the same as a professional bout. Hence my criticisms of the hype around Ortiz.
Second of all...
That's not true, Wilder had 35 amateur fights 30-5
Joshua had 40-3
Thats an eight amateur fight difference compared to a twenty professional bout difference.
But ye, if how long and more importantly 'how' you did it, is arbitrary to you then we are gonna stick on disagreement there... Not that having a difference of opinion is a bad thing, it's what keeps thought moving forward, I just disagree.
From my point of view, for example...
Beating Klitchko for the IBF belt and being the first to beat him means a lot lot more than beating a guy who won it after the champ got stripped, fought for a vacant title then the guy who was beating you up for several rounds blew his knee out.
See, don't get me wrong, I know AJ has big flaws, huuuuge flaws in fact and has also fought some weak opponents in glorified ways - the above mentioned situation vs Martin, Splizka was the way better fighter out of the two and Wilder dealt with him - and Wilder has done some good.
I just feel that putting them on a level footing, is unjust as one has proven himself in a much more glorified way whereas the other has and is continuing to fight miss matched fighters.
Brezeale and potentially Martin is literally a joke at this stage of their careers and I would call the exact same bshit if it was Joshua.
So...I dont think Szpilka fought Martin....
Separate names with a comma.