Will we ever see stoppages like this in MMA?

[Sweater of AV]

Statistically speaking, there really isn't. People overestimate how common comebacks are because they are so rare that they are overly memorable.

I'm talking about relative to boxing, hence "there's a greater chance". I'd be curious to see what statistics you have that directly compares the two though, with some sensible definition of comeback/hail mary.

 

[avenue94]

I'm talking about relative to boxing, hence "there's a greater chance". I'd be curious to see what statistics you have that directly compares the two though, with some sensible definition of comeback/hail mary.

Small study from a couple years ago, not the greatest methology but gives a good idea. I think when we're talking comebacks being more common in mma vs boxing, we're comparing like a 3 percent to 5 percent, or something like that. Sure, it's almost twice as likely, but is that really something worth noting when weighing corner stoppages? It's still single digit percentages.

Put it this way. How often do you think big comebacks or upsets happen in mma? Say we just grabbed a perfectly random sample of 100 fights. I'd guess it's less than 5.

 

[Mark McMichael]

Of course there are situations where the towel should be thrown in. But it's just less likely that it will for the reasons stated.

Right and I wasn't disagreeing with you. It is just that the points you made are typically the ones made by people who argue MMA does not need it because there are differences to boxing.

The differences are true and meaningful and the towel being thrown in would always happen MORE in boxing but it does not mean it should not be used in MMA.

It used be against the rules for a corner to throw the towel in, in many MMA commissions. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

 

[HHJ]

Right and I wasn't disagreeing with you. It is just that the points you made are typically the ones made by people who argue MMA does not need it because there are differences to boxing.

The differences are true and meaningful and the towel being thrown in would always happen MORE in boxing but it does not mean it should not be used in MMA.

It used be against the rules for a corner to throw the towel in, in many MMA commissions. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

I dont see any reason why it wouldnt have changed,but there are def moments when the towel COULD be thrown in,in any fighting sport. Imagine if Herb Dean didnt see Tim Sylvia;s arm break but his corner did?

 

[Kryptt]

Give up the pathetic narrative...

It's fucking old...

Enjoy or don't but simply fuck off!

 

[Kryptt]

FFS when your opponent is giving you defensive tips and telling you to keep your hands up in the middle of the figh

One of my favorite MMA moments ever!

 

[Captain Insano]

Hopefully not. Those pussy ass corner men should have let him continue to be a warrior and go out in his shield.

How do you go out IN a shield? And where does he keep his shield? Bc he's a warrior he has a shield. He's totally not competing in a sport with rules.

 

[Sticko]

Good point though as I think officially there is no "throwing in the towel" rule in mma and a ref has no obligation to stop a fight if a towel is thrown. You're right possibly that could be a DQ.

It used be against the rules for a corner to throw the towel in, in many MMA commissions. Does anyone know if that is still the case?

That's an interesting one because if I'm not mistaken, literally throwing in the towel is and was ruled a foul under the unified rules, and isn't supposed to be considered by the ref as a signal that the fight needs to be stopped.

This isn't a rule anymore. Not sure when it was changed exactly but corners are definitely allowed to stop fights now. This is in the Unified Rules now:

27. Interference from a mixed martial artist’s corner or seconds: Interference is defined as any action or activity aimed at disrupting the fight or causing an unfair advantage to be given to one combatant. Corners are not allowed to distract the referee or influence the actions of the referee in any fashion.

REMOVED AS A FOUL- Throwing in the towel during competition

A fighter's corner, at the Commission's discretion, should have the option to retire his fighter in the quickest and most efficient manner possible, during competition. A corner person having worked alongside a fighter may recognize and accept what their fighter's capabilities are from past experience. It makes sense from a safety perspective to allow a corner to retire the fighter. If there is consideration that debris in the form of a towel entering the ring or cage may contribute to a disruption or confusion in the contest, then colored towels or special towels might be a consideration to be used

 

[Pequeño Corey]

How do you go out IN a shield? And where does he keep his shield? Bc he's a warrior he has a shield. He's totally not competing in a sport with rules.

Bruh it’s a typo. Stop being tedious. I’ll let that shit slide because I just started watching sopranos again for like the 8th time and I like your AV.

 

[Juzie]

There's also a perception (and realistic) issue, of there being more ways to win/lose and pull a miracle, come from behind victory in MMA. So corners become hesitant as we have seen many times a guy pull a hail mary technique and manage to catch the opponent off guard and win.

Where as in boxing, if one guy is simply better then that's pretty much that. Boxing has a long history, and ring control within the sport is a literal science at this point. So being the much better boxer and getting caught with something wild is amateurish (and becomes increasingly unlikely at the higher levels).

This is a huge factor. I also think another point is that boxing matchmaking is a little bit different to MMA. A lot of guys are pretty much brought in to lose. If you knew you outclassed even before the match and then during the match you get pieced up and can't seem to land anything on the opponent what is the point of sustaining unnecessary damage?

 

[Kyd Blake]

I hope not. MMA is in the gutter as it is. Violence is what is so appealing about the sport.

I have been a fight fan since the 90s and this has got to be about the least interesting time to be an MMA fan. You get about 6 bad cards before one good card and all of the UFCs competition sucks.

Yeah MMA went to shit pretty much at the point
Conor McGregor became double champ with a gifted title shot @ LW. All the manufacturered drama, increase in usually Right wing political rhetoric, obvious favoritism towards fighters that sell well (no matter what bullshit they pull outside the cage), shittier uninspired matchmaking, and watering down the quality of talent on the rostry really made the UFC and by default most other influenced major MMA organizations to be violent sports entertainment pretending to be s legitimate sport. In the past, promotions like the WEC and of course Pride FC had arguably better production values and superior matchmaking while keeping political drama, biases, and other unnecessary bullshit out of the spotlight and keeping things more respectable from a athletical standpoint.

Nowadays? The UFC has bought almost every other major organization out over the years and monopolized the entire MMA sector, dictating fighter pay and fighter popularity causing inferior promotions like Bellator and PFL to only have middling talent, every major fighter's persona nowadays is usually either a polarizing WWE gimmick or being the biggest piece of trash ss humanly possible, and unfair title shots are giving and shitty matchups are made to cater to fighters who draw rather than the actual top talent.

It's sad to watch this unfold over the years, and I think Dana White hold too much power over MMA as a whole. Somethings gotta give, or people like me and countless others may completely lose interest for good.

 

[Quietus]

There’s a reason it doesn’t happen more in MMA.. you be getting worked for 99% of a fight and then pull off a Hail Mary sub like Paul Craig/Ankalaev. In boxing your only path back to victory is punching so if you’re losing that way you don’t have much way back in the fight barring a lucky KO. MMA has more ways to win/lose so it’s harder to count people out.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Small study from a couple years ago, not the greatest methology but gives a good idea. I think when we're talking comebacks being more common in mma vs boxing, we're comparing like a 3 percent to 5 percent, or something like that. Sure, it's almost twice as likely, but is that really something worth noting when weighing corner stoppages? It's still single digit percentages.

Put it this way. How often do you think big comebacks or upsets happen in mma? Say we just grabbed a perfectly random sample of 100 fights. I'd guess it's less than 5.

Lol, you posted a concussion study of 60 fights, 30 boxing vs 30 MMA, which gives no indication of anything. And then you pull out some random numbers.

I'm going to stick exactly with what I said and ignore whatever you come up with.

 

[Captain Insano]

Bruh it’s a typo. Stop being tedious. I’ll let that shit slide because I just started watching sopranos again for like the 8th time and I like your AV.

Check out the Talking Sopranos podcast too.

 

[sadowolf]

This isn't a rule anymore. Not sure when it was changed exactly but corners are definitely allowed to stop fights now. This is in the Unified Rules now:

27. Interference from a mixed martial artist’s corner or seconds: Interference is defined as any action or activity aimed at disrupting the fight or causing an unfair advantage to be given to one combatant. Corners are not allowed to distract the referee or influence the actions of the referee in any fashion.

REMOVED AS A FOUL- Throwing in the towel during competition

A fighter's corner, at the Commission's discretion, should have the option to retire his fighter in the quickest and most efficient manner possible, during competition. A corner person having worked alongside a fighter may recognize and accept what their fighter's capabilities are from past experience. It makes sense from a safety perspective to allow a corner to retire the fighter. If there is consideration that debris in the form of a towel entering the ring or cage may contribute to a disruption or confusion in the contest, then colored towels or special towels might be a consideration to be used

Thanks for the update, didn't know they removed it! Don't know when they did it, but I do know that it was still a rule when Nick did it in the Nate/Thomson fight. It's interesting that the wording there makes it seem like corners weren't able to stop the fights at all, because I always thought they were able to do it, just not in the form of throwing in the towel.