Worker Co-Ops, how workers take back this country

[VivaRevolution]

If you own Boeing stock you only own 0.000000001% of it, or whatever tiny number you have assuming you're a regular person and not a billionaire investor. Most importantly, you have ZERO authority and decision-making into their operations.

Even if you were a Boeing employee and the company became employee-owned you'd have zero say. This is the giant difference between simply "employee-owned" and "employee-owned and managed."

In the former, regular, everyday employees have little to no decision-making. They simply get a bigger share of the pie in the form of stocks, etc. They often have better work conditions than conventional corporations as well.

Co-ops are actually employee owned AND managed. So company decisions are made through bunch of committees where every person's vote counts the same. Pay is also much more equal here as well.

That description to me sounds like a stock holder owns a piece of paper assigned a value, not part of a company.

A value that this idea would pay the stockholder.

 

[Jkillah]

How do the top performing co-op businesses compare to top businesses which are not co-ops? Which ones have been more successful?

 

[VivaRevolution]

How do the top performing co-op businesses compare to top businesses which are not co-ops? Which ones have been more successful?

They seem to perform just fine. Here is a list...........

India

• Indian Coffee House
• Amul
• Lijjat
• Milma

Africa
This section is empty. You can help by adding to it. (November 2013)
Oceania
New Zealand

• Loomio
• Nelson Building Society

Europe
Spain

• Mondragón Cooperative Corporation
• Irizar

United Kingdom

• Agile Collective
• AK Press
• Alloy
• Baxendale (formerly Baxi Partnership)
• Belfast Cleaning Cooperative Limited
• Bicycle Doctor (Manchester)
• Birmingham Bike Foundry, Birmingham
• Creative Workers Co-operative
• Edinburgh Bicycle Co-operative, Edinburgh
• Eighth Day, Manchester[1]
• Equity Shoes
• EthosVO Ltd, Surrey[2]
• John Lewis Partnership, nationwide
• Lupine Adventure Co-operative
• News From Nowhere, Liverpool[3]
• Scott Bader
• Seeds for Change
• Single Step
• Soundbites, Derby
• Suma
• Swann Morton
• The Handmade Bakery
• Tullis Russel
• Total Coverage Co-operative Design Consultancy
• Unicorn Grocery, Manchester

For a comprehensive list of UK cooperatives, see the directory of Co-operatives UK

Middle East
Israel

• Egged, Israel Transport Cooperative Society
• Shomim Hazak, sound and lighting cooperative

North America
Canada

• Anarres Worker Co-operative, Toronto, ON
• Baseline Type and Graphics, Vancouver, BC
• Big Carrot, Toronto, ON
• Café Chaos Worker's Cooperative, Montreal, QC
• Come As You Are, Toronto, ON
• Devco, Vancouver, BC
• G7 Welcoming Committee Records
• Incipe Workers' Cooperative, Vancouver, BC
• Mondragon Bookstore & Coffeehouse
• Organic Planet Worker Co-op, Winnipeg, MB
• Shift Delivery Co-op, Vancouver, BC
• SUMAC Worker Co-operative, Guelph, ON
• Sustainability Solutions Group, Vancouver, Montreal, Halifax
• The Sleepless Goat Cafe, Kingston, ON
• Urban Eatin' Gardeners Worker Co-op, Winnipeg, MB
• Urbane Cyclist, Toronto, ON
• Viridian Energy Co-operative, Duncan, BC
• Your Local Market Co-operative Inc., Stratford, ON

Mexico

• Taller Lenateros art collective in Chiapas
• Zapatista coffee cooperatives in Chiapas

United States

• Agaric, LLC (Natick, MA)
• AK Press (Oakland, CA[4])
• Alvarado Street Bakery (Petaluma, CA)
• Arizmendi Bakery Coöperative (San Francisco Bay Area, CA)
• Arizmendi Development and Support Collective (CA)
• Artichoke Food Co-operative (Worcester, MA)
• At-Hand Apps, LLC (Newton, MA)

Baltimore Bicycle Works[5] (Baltimore, MD)

• Black Bear Bakery (St. Louis, MO)
• Black Cat Construction Cooperative (Tacoma, WA)
• Black Star Co-op Pub & Brewery (Austin, TX)
• Boston TechCollective (Somerville, MA)

Brattleboro Holistic Health Center (Brattleboro, VT)

• Brattleboro Tech Collective (Brattleboro, VT[6])
• Bread And Roses Food Cooperative (Tallahassee, FL)
• Breitenbush Hot Springs (Detroit, OR[7])
• C4 Tech & Design (New Orleans, LA[8])
• Casa Nueva Restaurant, Cantina & Bodega (Athens, OH[9])
• Cheese Board Collective (Berkeley, CA)
• Chicago Technology Cooperative (Chicago, IL)
• Circle of Life Caregiver Cooperative (Bellingham, WA)
• Citybikes Workers' Cooperative (Portland, OR)
• Civilization Systems (Baltimore, MD)
• Collective Copies (Several locations near Amherst, MA[10])
• Community Builders Cooperative (Somerville, MA)
• Cooperative Home Care Associates (Bronx, NY), estb. 1985.[11][12] the USA's largest worker owned co-op [13]
• Co-Soap Cooperative (Oakland, CA)
• Data Systems Inc (Burlington, VT)
• Design Action Collective (Oakland, CA)
• District Sentinel (Washington, DC[14])
• Dollars and Sense (Boston, MA[15])
• Ecomundo Cleaning (New York, NY)
• Electric Embers (San Francisco, CA)
• Equal Exchange (West Bridgewater, MA[16])
• Evergreen Cooperatives (Cleveland, OH)
• Flywheel Tech Collective (Cleveland, OH)
• Food for Thought Books (Amherst, MA)
• GAIA Host Collective (Greenfield, MA)
• Glut (est. 1969) (Mt Rainier, MD)
• Gotham City Drupal (Brooklyn, NY)
• Great Sky Solar (Boston, MA)
• Green Worker Cooperatives (The Bronx, NY)
• Hard Times Café (Minneapolis, MN)
• Heartwood Cooperative Woodshop (Berkeley, CA)
• Hoedads Reforestation Cooperative (Eugene, OR)
• The Hub Bike Co-op (Minneapolis, MN)
• Inkworks Press (Berkeley, CA[17])
• Isthmus Engineering and Manufacturing (Madison, WI)
• La Montanita Food Market Co-op (Sante Fe, Albuquerque and Gallup, NM) [18]
• Libertarian International Organization(share fan co-op projects)
• Little Grill Collective (Harrisonburg, VA)
• Lucy Parsons Center (Boston, MA)[19]
• Mintwood Media Collective P.R. Firm [4] (Washington, DC[20])
• Nabolom Bakery (Berkeley, CA)
• Namaste Solar (Boulder/Denver, CO)
• New Era Windows (Chicago, IL)[21]
• New Moon Cooperative
• Olympia Food Co-op
• Other Avenues Food Store
• Outformations [5] (Oakland, CA)
• Patty Pan Grill [6] (Shoreline, WA)
• Pedal Express
• Pedal People Cooperative (Northampton, MA[22])
• Pelham Auto Parts (Belchertown MA[23])
• Puget Sound Consumer Co-Op
• Pioneer Valley Photovoltaics (Greenfield, MA and New Britain CT[24])
• Radical Designs Cooperative (Oakland, CA)
• Radical Press Coffee Collective (Gainesville, FL)
• Rainbow Grocery Cooperative
• Red and Black Cafe (Portland, OR)
• Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse (Baltimore, MD[25])
• Red Sun Press (Boston, MA)
• René Pujol Restaurant Cooperative
• Ronin Tech Collective (Brattleboro, VT)
• Seward Community Cafe (Minneapolis, MN)
• Sunshine Propane
• Shot In The Dark Cafe (Tucson, AZ)
• South Mountain Company
• TechCollective (San Francisco, CA)
• TeamWorks
• Toolbox for Education & Social Action (Northampton, MA)
• Twin Ports Commonwealth (Twin Ports)[26]
• Union Cab of Madison Cooperative
• Union Technology Cooperative (Madison, WI)
• Valley Green Feast Collective (Northampton, MA)
• Web Collective, Inc.
• WebSkillet (Burlington, VT)
• Woodshanti Cooperative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_cooperatives

 

[Prutfis]

I think unions are over, at least for non-college degree jobs, employers can simply threaten to move the jobs overseas whenever their workers organize.

Lol

 

[nefti]

It's not an either/or situation. In a co-op, you don't have a lifelong janitor doing the accounting. There's certainly specialization and training.

There's just no hierarchy. So the finance department doesn't get to tell the CEO about the latest reports and then the CEO makes a decision for the whole company based on that. The finance department reports to some sort of committee where all departments (including the janitors and food service guys) have equal vote and representation. They make their decisions based on this shared decision.

The idea that washing toilets gives you a qualification to make financial decisions is assinine as saying that a toilet washer should have input into engineering designs.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The idea that washing toilets gives you a qualification to make financial decisions is assinine as saying that a toilet washer should have input into engineering designs.

Knows more about that company he works for, then the average share holder.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

I believe that worker co-ops are the solution to the fundamental flaw of communism and socialism. This flaw is in creating a centralized authority, that would be corrupted, and infaltrated.

Worker co-ops are the solution.

Here is my purposal. With our political revolution, we force our government to pass a law, giving the workers of every publicly traded corporation, the right to form a board that would replace the current board of the corporation, with a mandate to allocate profits to fund operations, and take all other profits to buy back the stock from the stockholders. Once all stock is bought back, all profits are paid out in a profit sharing system, ending the wage system across much of corporate America.

What say you war room?

It is stupid. New Belgium brewery is pretty much run by the people who work for it. No need to change the law.
So your fundamental flaw with Marxism is that the government owns everything? Welcome to capitalism.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It is stupid. New Belgium brewery is pretty much run by the people who work for it. No need to change the law.
So your fundamental flaw with Marxism is that the government owns everything? Welcome to capitalism.

Let's make, NIKE, Boeing, Exxon, ect. like the New Belgium brewery.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

Let's make, NIKE, Boeing, Exxon, ect. like the New Belgium brewery.

Why? How about you get together with a group of people and make a new athletic wear company?
What you are talking about is theft.
It seems to me like you have nothing and are jealous of others who have things and want to take them away because you are so miserable.


Anyone in america can start a business. It is IMMORAL to steal from someone which is what you are proposing. What do you think is going to happen? If we say hey, every successful company started by a many with vision and taking a risk, you might get your business stolen by some fucking weak millennials because they are completely worthless and jealous and miserable and can't make a name for themselves?
They will fucking leave and no one will want to make companies.

 

[SeefourDC]

The ultimate problem with this model is the same problem with every marxist idealogue based idea under current capabilities. This won't be competitive with capitalism. Businesses like this would lack the flexibility to adapt over time. The only way to make this work is to legislate away the ability to be capitalist. Then the problem will move to international competition. Capitalism is just too flexible and efficient over time. All forms of marxism cannot exist without legislating against capitalism until such a time where competition is unnecessary to sustain us.

 

[Thunderflash500]

That used to be what was done.

Of course back then CEO pay was about 30 times the average wage instead of 400 times the average wage.

It was never done.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It was never done.

BS. It is still done now even. Ray Conner, former CEO of Boeing just a few years ago, was an engineer at Boeing 30 years prior. It just used to be the rule, not the exception.

 

[Thunderflash500]

BS. It is still done now even. Ray Conner, former CEO of Boeing just a few years ago, was an engineer at Boeing 30 years prior. It just used to be the rule, not the exception.

Yea, you can work your way up if you have talent. Of course. But the average worker is an idiot with no desire or capability to run a company.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Why? How about you get together with a group of people and make a new athletic wear company?
What you are talking about is theft.
It seems to me like you have nothing and are jealous of others who have things and want to take them away because you are so miserable.


Anyone in america can start a business. It is IMMORAL to steal from someone which is what you are proposing. What do you think is going to happen? If we say hey, every successful company started by a many with vision and taking a risk, you might get your business stolen by some fucking weak millennials because they are completely worthless and jealous and miserable and can't make a name for themselves?
They will fucking leave and no one will want to make companies.

First, I don't want to steal from anyone. Publicly traded companies are owned by stock holders. I want to pay those stock holders the value of the piece of paper they own. No one is taking anything from anyone.

Second, I have clearly stated why. Address the coming rise of machines and unemployment crisis that will accompany it. Address wealth inequality without a tax. Stop corporate America from cannibalizing themselves in the name of executive bonus's.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Yea, you can work your way up if you have talent. Of course. But the average worker is an idiot with no desire or capability to run a company.

Good thing then that corporations employ 10,000's and 100,000's of employees to find the best and brightest from.

And as I stated before, an idiot with a real world education in employment of said company, is a subject matter expert compared to an intelligent person with no education in said company.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Good thing then that corporations employ 10,000's and 100,000's of employees to find the best and brightest from.

And as I stated before, an idiot with a real world education in employment of said company, is a subject matter expert compared to an intelligent person with no education in said company.

But you're saying the janitor gets an equal vote as an engineer. That's not picking the brightest to lead. That's letting idiots have a voice in important matters.

 

[VivaRevolution]

But you're saying the janitor gets an equal vote as an engineer. That's not picking the brightest to lead. That's letting idiots have a voice in important matters.

False equivalency. Engineers aren't currently the sole share holders. Janitors already are share holders.

Engineers are just as capable of being CEO's as Harvard MBA's.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

First, I don't want to steal from anyone. Publicly traded companies are owned by stock holders. I want to pay those stock holders the value of the piece of paper they own. No one is taking anything from anyone.

.

They own those pieces of paper. If you want to buy stocks you can buy them. If you buy enough you can get seats on the board of directors and if you have a majority of seats then you can vote to do whatever you want.

Not sure what you are arguing when you bring this up.

As far as your second point, the $15 dollar minimum wage is a much more disastrous thing.

PS Don't forget you live in the most privileged society ever. Even if you are poor by our standards, you are better off than most people in non-western countries. We are built on capitalism and if you think you can just tinker with that and not fuck up shit big time for everyone, you are 1) Wrong 2) have no evidence the other way

 

[Jkillah]

I'm fine with voluntary co-ops forming, but forced ownership redistribution/forced wealth distribution has not worked out that well in the past. It doesn't empower people. It creates dictators and inefficiencies to the point of shortages in basic necessities like food, medicine, and even toilet paper. I think your idea is terrible to the point of being scary.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

That description to me sounds like a stock holder owns a piece of paper assigned a value, not part of a company.

A value that this idea would pay the stockholder.

That's exactly what it is.

Go buy $1,000 worth of General Electric stock right now and you'll have jack shit to say about how they handle their operations. Buy $1B worth and you'll probably sit at the board of directors or something.