Youth training (7yr old)

[SteveX]

If you're refering to me. I didn't say strength training was bad... I said gymnastics training was bad. I sincerely doubt you could cut it in the gymnastics classes i've seen with children.

I think he was referring to Technomad's post

 

[Lusst]

I think he was referring to Technomad's post

*nod*

 

[Brad Morris]

philthy,

I was referring to Technomad!

But I don't agree with you that gymnastics stunts growth, I believe its more a case of natural selection. Tall guys are always going to struggle in gymnastics as they are at a disadvantage when it comes to leverage.

Just like professional rowers are normally well over 6ft tall and have long limbs. Naturally the tall guys have an advantage over shorter guys with short limbs whilst rowing.

Could I cut it in a kids gymnastic class, I highly doubt it! But I do appreciate the strength and control required to perform some of the movements.

My brother in law is a performer for Circ De Solei he specialises in the chinese poles and the Flying Trapeze. I have seen first hand the kind of training he does 95% of it is very sports specific. He is a small guy and weighs aound 65kg! Not to say what he does is not impressive, it is very impressive. But I wanted to highlight my point that a lot of great gymnasts/acrobats are small to medium build.

 

[flak]

So if I want my kid to grow up tall, I guess I should get him started playing basketball? :icon_chee

 

[Diesel6]

bodyweight pistols

 

[Technomad]

Oh shit, you've heard something...never mind anyone here who has kids that actually strength train, or those growing up who did farm labor.

Never mind all that - Fuck that. What's important here is that some random asshole who may or may not know the difference between a Clean, or Snatch, pass off his advice he probably heard from some other random asshole, tell you what's good or bad for kids.

Wow man, thats a little bit personal. But let me try to back up at least some of my opinions with facts.

The Mayo clinic agrees that kids can strength train, but the set the low age as 8
"As early as age 8... strength training can become a valuable part of an overall fitness plan"
Heres the link on that http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/strength-training/HQ01010
The young man in question is only seven.

The American Association of Pediatrics also has some cavets for weight training.
"Preadolescents and adolescents should avoid competitive weight lifting, power lifting, body building, and maximal lifts until they reach physical and skeletal maturity"

Dr. Paul Stricker (a vanderbuilt professor) agrees, that any powerlift should not be done until after puberty.
http://www.vsm.vanderbilt.edu/documents/Stricker--STRENGTHTRAINING.pdf

Heres another interesting note. Pre-pubecent children, the gains made my strength training arn't due to muscle growth, its just do to muscle memory.

From the AAP: "In preadolescents, proper resistance training can enhance strength without concomitant muscle hypertrophy. Such gains in strength can be attributed to neuromuscular "learning," in which training increases the number of motor neurons that will fire with each muscle contraction. This mechanism helps explain strength gains from resistance training in populations with low androgen levels, including females and preadolescent males"

Strickers' article says the same thing. It is also worth noting that every one of these websites recomends consulting with a doctor before starting and strength training program on a child.

The bottom line: Kids can saftley strength train, however, they shouldn't do any powerlifts, and any gains they make are just muscle memory, not actually them getting stronger. So to me, the benefit of those over playing a sport or jsut messing around outside are minimal.

 

[Barut]

Here's Doctor Stricker:

He's the living embodiment of all things strength related. Do you think he's ever done a powerlift? I doubt it. By and large doctors are retarded, or at least so afraid of getting sued for malpractice that they cover their asses at every turn. *Hates chosen profession* It's a lot easier for a doctor to tell all kids not to lift than it is to have some kid sue you after he puts 200lbs on the bar and tries to squat.

 

[SteveX]

Here's Doctor Stricker:

He's the living embodiment of all things strength related. Do you think he's ever done a powerlift? I doubt it. By and large doctors are retarded, or at least so afraid of getting sued for malpractice that they cover their asses at every turn. *Hates chosen profession* It's a lot easier for a doctor to tell all kids not to lift than it is to have some kid sue you after he puts 200lbs on the bar and tries to squat.

why the hate on Doc Stricker? He looks like he is toned

 

[Brad Morris]

Technomad

You make some valid points and there is nothing wrong with getting your child checked by a doctor before commencing a strength/conditioning program.

But how many doctors really know much about strength and conditioning?

Technomad wrote

Heres another interesting note. Pre-pubecent children, the gains made my strength training arn't due to muscle growth, its just do to muscle memory.

I agree that some of the strength gains experienced by younger lifters are due to improvements in intermuscular and intramuscular coordination. But to say that the gains are only because of that increased coordination is wrong. Strength training in children will cause a slight increase in both structural and functional strenght.

Technomad wrote

From the AAP: "In preadolescents, proper resistance training can enhance strength without concomitant muscle hypertrophy. Such gains in strength can be attributed to neuromuscular "learning," in which training increases the number of motor neurons that will fire with each muscle contraction. This mechanism helps explain strength gains from resistance training in populations with low androgen levels, including females and preadolescent males"

So how is learning to increase your muscle fibre recruitment through resistance training a bad thing, isn't increasing your power to weight ratio a good thing?

Technomad wrote

So to me, the benefit of those over playing a sport or just messing around outside are minimal.

I think kids that are well supervised and are taught good form and full body movements like squats, deadlifts, cleans, overhead squats, are going to benefit from fewer injuries due to stronger bodies. Resistance training need not be the focus of a childs training but benefits can be gained from it! Benefits which guys like Mel Siff thought were well worth the effort. I'll take Siff's word on resistance training over any local doctor! And to finish I have anecdotal evidence, watching my kids train they are 7 and 9 and seeing the improvements in strength and slight changes in physical appearance as well, has convinced me that I am doing the right thing!

 

[Barut]

Fucker has great teeth. I'll give him that.

 

[Technomad]

http://drpaulstricker.com/

umm, you might wanna read the guys bio before you discount everything he says.

"team physician for the U.S. Olympic Committee, and for the U.S. National Teams for swimming, soccer, gymnastics, and basketball. Following the 1995 U.S. Olympic Festival and 1997 World University Games, he was appointed as Head Physician for the 1999 World University Games. He also served U.S.A. Swimming at the World Championships, Pan-Pacific Championships, and the 2000 Olympic Trials. He also provides care for elite athletes as a volunteer at the Arco Olympic Training Center."

Still a dedicated athlete, he is nationally competitive in US Masters swimming.


Just to respond to morris; post- everything you said was true, but I think all we have is just a difference of opinion, I think the costs outweight the benefits, you; vice versa. But you're opinion is well-reasoned and based on facts so I respect that.

 

[Merrill]

he specialises in the chinese poles.

Sorry Brad, but I giggled.

 

[takeahnase]

Running (sprints)
Jumping
Throwing stuff
Carrying stuff
Gymnastics
Stretching

If your want your child's growth to be stunted... gymnastics all the way... sure he'll be jacked and 5'3" when he's 21.

Basketball makes you tall and ballet makes you gay.

 

[AxeGrinder]

why not just let the kiddies go outside and play on the monkeybars or scrape their knees falling off their bike or y'know...let em' do fucking kids stuff...I find it strange when people wanna turn their kids into little badasses...

 

[flak]

Dr. Paul Stricker (a vanderbuilt professor) agrees, that any powerlift should not be done until after puberty.
http://www.vsm.vanderbilt.edu/documents/Stricker--STRENGTHTRAINING.pdf

Technomad, I appreciate that you're concerned about kids possibly being exposed to unnecessary risk. I'm a parent, I'm doing what I can to expose my boy to some elementary lifting and I want to do it right.

But I just read that PowerPoint by Stricker, and what I got out of it was, the major caveat re: youth lifting is the potential for injury from kids lifting too heavy and/or with bad form and/or while unsupervised.

I think everyone here would acknowledge that those are hazards for all lifters, regardless of age. Furthermore, they are preventable hazards. Stricker also mentions that a child's maturity level and coordination are important considerations. No argument there, either.

As far as his recommendation "no powerlifting until puberty," he indeed says it, on screen 8.

But what the hell does that mean?

What's a deadlift? Picking up an object that's on the floor in front of you, basically. Kids do that all the time in everyday life. Is Dr. Stricker seriously saying "no child should attempt a barbell deadlift with even 10 pounds before puberty?"

Or does he really mean "kids shouldn't try to lift heavy weight like those fat guys I see on TV, those cleans and squats or whatever you call them."

I'm betting it's the latter.

 

[stylesbjj**]

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That kid is 70lbs at 8 years old. I remember being 65 lbs at 12 years old. In case your wondering why, my parents raised me vegetarian, and didn't make sure that I got at least 10 eggs a day in my diet.

So if I want my kid to grow up tall, I guess I should get him started playing basketball? :icon_chee

If you want your kids to grow tall, limit the grains (except for oatmeal) in their diet. Humans went from an average height of 6 feet to 5 feet when agricultural grains were introduced into their diet. Considering all the other bad things high insulin levels do, its not too surprising that it might be responsible for stunt growth.

Stick to oats (its a grain, but it has a very low gi) with fruits, fruits, yams, and sweet potatoes for carb staples.

Also, make sure they exercise. When glycogen stores are depleted, there is a much less insulin shock from eating carbs.

 

[kaboom187]

i have my 2.5 year old nephew doing pullups and pushups. he is a pull up master.

also have him doing some OHP, front squats, adn rows with just a dowel. he has lots of fun doing it cause he sees me do it.

Its a shame that the 5 year old ins't as into this type of stuff. he's a bit "soft".

 

[Steak**]

Heres another interesting note. Pre-pubecent children, the gains made my strength training arn't due to muscle growth, its just do to muscle memory.

So a a ten year old who's been helping out on the farm, carrying bucket's of milk and other things who helps out everyday wont be any stronger then another ten year old kid who plays nintendo everyday and never exercises?

 

[fat_wilhelm]

Does Weight Lifting Stunt Growth?
by Mehdi

 

[Technomad]

So a a ten year old who's been helping out on the farm, carrying bucket's of milk and other things who helps out everyday wont be any stronger then another ten year old kid who plays nintendo everyday and never exercises?

I think what they're saying is that the kid will be stronger, but he won't put on any substantial muscle mass, because his body doesnt have the hormone levels to build those muscles. The strength will be from activating better the muscle tissue he does have. But we can all agree he will be way healthier