Catch Wrestling United

_Glorfindel_ said:
Here is the Canada Combat Wrestling trials results:

Adam MacFadyen 68kg - Takahashi Dojo
Matthew Kaiser 74kg - Fierce Studio/Keith Owen Team & Richards Wrestling Club
Vincent Pelletier Robitaille 82kg - Spartan / ISWA
Gabriel Rossi 90kg - ISWA
Ivan Kyrylchuk 100kg - Takahashi Dojo

Mike Martelle 100+ kg - Gryzzly Gym
Marie Eve Lefebvre 55kg - Riverdale / ISWA

I hope i will get some vids soon.
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Fierce Studio? I didn't expect one of Ari's guys to win. It seems he's an instructor there.
 
TheFakeMacoy said:
Fierce Studio? I didn't expect one of Ari's guys to win. It seems he's an instructor there.
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Dunno. But i doubt it, 'cause it's wrestling, Bolden dont know shit about wrestling and you didnt bold the last part : Richards wrestling club

i think that is the key. ;-)
 
_Glorfindel_ said:
Dunno. But i doubt it, 'cause it's wrestling, Bolden dont know shit about wrestling and you didnt bold the last part : Richards wrestling club

i think that is the key. ;-)
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Lol, I'm sure the wrestling club is responsible for most of his success. However, it's still odd to me that he went with Ari's gym. Maybe Ari offered him a job teaching and other clubs didn't?
 
Dennis Hallman has a fight coming up on a local card in mid July vs an undefeated up and comer, I will be judging at this show.
 
_Glorfindel_ said:
A wrestling based grappling art.

I'll bite too. What is bjj?? Mass marketed judo newaza??

Seriously, why do you came here?
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Why do I come here??? Because I'm a grappling fan.

What is BJJ? A submission bases grappling martial art which places emphasis (points) on one persons position relative to their opponents. That is what bjj does different.

In other grappling arts, side control, top guard and full mount are all equal.

In BJJ they are considered different. That difference creates a consistant style that rewards position before submission and that mindset has created something very different no matter how many different styles do something different.

I've done Combat Wrestling tournaments before. Among other things it rewards points (catches) for sub attempts and it punishes a person who stays in a dominant position. Because of that you can chain from footlock to heel hook to toehold to calf crush and rack up points efficiently. The rules make for scramblely grapplers. The style is different.

I've done sport sambo too. You can't close legs in guard and you can't choke so the turtle position becomes very different and leglocks open due to the dangling legs. It's throw intensive because it's the most efficient way to win and the restrictions on guard and the openness to reaps make leg locks the best follow up because you can't use chokes to follow up an upper body submission attack. Attacking someone with posture is hard since you can't threaten chokes but leg attacks cancel that.

You see. The rules define the style.

What is Catch wrestling? What are the rules? Is combat wrestling not catch wrestling because they allow chokes? Because you can't win by 3 count?

There is no defining characteristics. People speak in vague platitudes like "catch wrestling focuses on working hard" or "catch wrestling focuses on heavy pressure"

All grappling styles have people who fight that way. What is catch wrestling? As far as I can see it's just an art that insists on using esoteric names on moves everyone knows as something else.

I think combat wrestling and catch wrestling is the same.

Someone explain how the difference in rules makes for different fighters.
 
Calibur said:
Why do I come here??? Because I'm a grappling fan.

What is BJJ? A submission bases grappling martial art which places emphasis (points) on one persons position relative to their opponents. That is what bjj does different.

In other grappling arts, side control, top guard and full mount are all equal.

In BJJ they are considered different. That difference creates a consistant style that rewards position before submission and that mindset has created something very different no matter how many different styles do something different.

I've done Combat Wrestling tournaments before. Among other things it rewards points (catches) for sub attempts and it punishes a person who stays in a dominant position. Because of that you can chain from footlock to heel hook to toehold to calf crush and rack up points efficiently. The rules make for scramblely grapplers. The style is different.

I've done sport sambo too. You can't close legs in guard and you can't choke so the turtle position becomes very different and leglocks open due to the dangling legs. It's throw intensive because it's the most efficient way to win and the restrictions on guard and the openness to reaps make leg locks the best follow up because you can't use chokes to follow up an upper body submission attack. Attacking someone with posture is hard since you can't threaten chokes but leg attacks cancel that.

You see. The rules define the style.

What is Catch wrestling? What are the rules? Is combat wrestling not catch wrestling because they allow chokes? Because you can't win by 3 count?

There is no defining characteristics. People speak in vague platitudes like "catch wrestling focuses on working hard" or "catch wrestling focuses on heavy pressure"

All grappling styles have people who fight that way. What is catch wrestling? As far as I can see it's just an art that insists on using esoteric names on moves everyone knows as something else.

I think combat wrestling and catch wrestling is the same.

Someone explain how the difference in rules makes for different fighters.
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Good post.

In Catch-wrestling contest one can win py pin or submission. Basically thats it. Catch-wrestler is someone who in his training focuses on becoming good at this kind of wrestling.
 
In my opinion Combat Wrestling came out of Catch, in a similar way nogi submission grappling largely came out of BJJ. I think BJJ is also defined by the gi as well as the concept of progression through positions thought to be increasing in dominance where offensive opportunity increases, while the opponent's defensive or counter-offensive opportunities decrease. Scoring points in BJJ and nogi submission grappling is based on this concept, although finish only competition seems to be becoming more popular.

Also most of the names in Catch are based on logical mnemonics, named after farming and textile tools that a lot of the original wrestlers were familiar with: scissors, bars, locks, picks, hooks, coils, hammers etc. 'Grovit' might seem like an esoteric name on the surface, but it was actually a tool made out of bone used in the wool industry in Lancashire.

'Chancery' might seem esoteric, but it was originally 'head in chancery' which was an original way of saying the head was in danger.

Double Wrist Lock is a logical name. The opponent's wrist is locked (gripped), and your own wrist is locked, ergo double wrist lock. Typically the bottom DWL is just a DWL, and a Top DWL is a Top Wrist Lock for the sake of brevity. Shooto renamed TWL a V arm lock or V lock because of the ideal shape of the arm in the hold (Americana).

Were there any particular esoteric names you were thinking of? I could probably track down the etymology unless it's a really modern name someone's recently made up.
 
KJGould said:
'Chancery' might seem esoteric, but it was originally 'head in chancery' which was an original way of saying the head was in danger.
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Is this where it originates?

Court of Chancery.

The Court of Chancery was a court of equity in England and Wales that followed a set of loose rules to avoid the slow pace of change and possible harshness (or "inequity") of the common law. The Chancery had jurisdiction over all matters of equity, including trusts, land law, the administration of the estates of lunatics and the guardianship of infants. Its initial role was somewhat different, however; as an extension of the Lord Chancellor's role as Keeper of the King's Conscience, the Court was an administrative body primarily concerned with conscientious law. Thus the Court of Chancery had a far greater remit than the common law courts, whose decisions it had the jurisdiction to overrule for much of its existence, and was far more flexible. Until the 19th century, the Court of Chancery could apply a far wider range of remedies than the common law courts, such as specific performance and injunctions, and also had some power to grant damages in special circumstances. With the shift of the Exchequer of Pleas towards a common law court and loss of its equitable jurisdiction by the Administration of Justice Act 1841, the Chancery became the only national equitable body in the English legal system.
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Excellent post BTW, I love entomology.
 
one would think it more well known by now that grappler111 has rather partisan views when it comes to wrestling, still enough to coax everyone into a snafu it seems.
 
seatea said:
Is this where it originates?

Court of Chancery.



Excellent post BTW, I love entomology.
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Yes, as far as I can tell the origins are in the court based 'chancery'. Originally chancery court was on behalf of the Crown, and there was only prosecution of the accused; defense lawyers / solicitors is a relatively modern thing.

Historically, if you found yourself accused and in chancery court, more often than not you were fucked.
 
Calibur said:
What is catch wrestling? As far as I can see it's just an art that insists on using esoteric names on moves everyone knows as something else.
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This is interesting coming from someone with a BJJ heavy influence. Do you not think GJJ was this same way? Did they not take moves from another art, rename a lot of them for a small group of people (they selected to train) with a specialized knowledge?

At least like KJ said, a lot of the old Catch terms had foundation in working knowledge of tools, etc.


How about you explain to me the name Ezekiel choke!?

How bout omaplata and why is that any better than Coil lock?

Why Gogoplata good, scissor choke bad?


I will save you the time of googling, the answer is simple...... You're BJJ eccentric.

Just because you think these names for Catch moves are exotic and silly doesn't mean they are, it just means they are to you, ya dig?
 
KJGould said:
In my opinion Combat Wrestling came out of Catch, in a similar way nogi submission grappling largely came out of BJJ. I think BJJ is also defined by the gi as well as the concept of progression through positions thought to be increasing in dominance where offensive opportunity increases, while the opponent's defensive or counter-offensive opportunities decrease. Scoring points in BJJ and nogi submission grappling is based on this concept, although finish only competition seems to be becoming more popular.

Also most of the names in Catch are based on logical mnemonics, named after farming and textile tools that a lot of the original wrestlers were familiar with: scissors, bars, locks, picks, hooks, coils, hammers etc. 'Grovit' might seem like an esoteric name on the surface, but it was actually a tool made out of bone used in the wool industry in Lancashire.

'Chancery' might seem esoteric, but it was originally 'head in chancery' which was an original way of saying the head was in danger.

Double Wrist Lock is a logical name. The opponent's wrist is locked (gripped), and your own wrist is locked, ergo double wrist lock. Typically the bottom DWL is just a DWL, and a Top DWL is a Top Wrist Lock for the sake of brevity. Shooto renamed TWL a V arm lock or V lock because of the ideal shape of the arm in the hold (Americana).

Were there any particular esoteric names you were thinking of? I could probably track down the etymology unless it's a really modern name someone's recently made up.
Click to expand...

The original Combat Wrestling tournament was designed by guys with catch lineages and the competitors were guys with Catch lineages. I consider it Catch, and if not then an offshoot.

There are different types of BJJ tournament rule sets, doesnt mean the less popular ones are not BJJ.
 
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