What counts for what?
I said I have certain number, gaven to me by professional judogi manufacturer KuSakura (the owner's son), who happen to be olympic sponsor for Rio 2016.
Im not talking about structure differences, private/ government or whatever.
As i said, just the number of 3 countries regular practitioners, without even counting the law enforcement practitioners and the students, is higher then the entire IBJJF, which is the biggest BJJ federation in the world.
That was written as an answer to the guy, quoted in the post, suggesting that judo practitioners are very few, globally.
How and why is this post interpreted, is beyond me. It was clear to who I was talking and what I was refering to.
is the drag down, or snap down a legit scoring technique in judo? Basically, you try to pull uke forward toward you and down and try to get on top and over, and just drop your weight on him, and squash him to his knees and hands.
Also I have been experimenting with this grip. I get the lapel, and then I reach around back either over or under uke's other arm and grab back just above the belt. What do you think of this grip? Is it advantageous. I think it gives me good control, I also also feel like there is an hip throw counter to this.
Are there any obvious negatives to lapel-grip ippon seoinage in comparison to sleeve-grip ippon seoinage?
The reason I mention attacking right away is that when you have that high sleeve grip over the top uke has an underhook with his power hand, and if you just hang out there you're probably going to get thrown. It's a very double edged position. But when I say 'attack' I don't mean you just randomly throw a foot out or start turning. I mean you have to start initiating an attack right away to keep the initiative, though that attack could certainly be breaking uke's balance and getting him moving to set up a throw. What you can't do is wait, because if you do you're susceptible to a very strong attack from uke because he has that underhook which you've given him.
yep. I think training with bad uke has given me bad habits . I have been told by the head coach I have a tendency to be spastic and lose control when I meet resistance.
Apparently some of the lower belts complain I throw too hard and not with control
Do it like in this video and you can avoid needing to punch. I don't know how to do the punch version, but it seems to me like an adjustment made to get uke to turn. Well, why not avoid that and throw to the corner instead?
[YT]watch?v=HM5ZpiJjTCs[/YT]
Actually I never had the problem in the legs, it was my hands all the time, I couldn´t getting right---^ yup
i think a lot of schools over-emphasize the backstep to a fault, which in turn weights the wrong foot, which causes uke to be pulled into tori.
i've been pretty successful in helping folks clean up their tai otoshi by thinking about stomping across and pushing tori over their leg, as opposed to stepping back and trying to *pull* tori over their leg.
not that the backstep is the inferior tai otoshi, but a lot of people seem to approach that legwork as uchimata or harai where most of the weight is on the leg underneath of them.
No punch and no backstep video:
[YT]watch?v=i-oNQrLg33c[/YT]
Also, since I was talking about it a few days ago:
Very interesting that it's less about power and more about a specific setup to get the bear hug grips. I can't wait to try this.
Ya, that's why I prefer the lapel-grip over the sleeve-grip. It lets me get much closer and tighter.
But I'm worried that a preference for the lapel-grip over the sleeve-grip for these reasons can be stunting personal growth. It's not like I'm Koga and going for the world championships or anything, so maybe I should just stick to sleeve-grip for training purposes.
Big backstep tai otoshi can work, but I had that problem for years and years with Tai Otoshi. One of the coaches in BC is an expert, and he does not do the backstep at all. Throws to the corner as suggested. That really opened my eyes on Tai Otoshi, even though I got the whole weight shift to the crossing leg thing way before that. The other thing is to get the weight onto the lead leg of uke. Opening to the front corner instead of all the way around on the back step gets that done much more easily.
Also, since I was talking about it a few days ago:
Very interesting that it's less about power and more about a specific setup to get the bear hug grips. I can't wait to try this.
Not obvious ones, but there is a major disadvantage if you look at Judo as a whole versus just comparing seoi types.
A lapel grip is better for forward pulls, but that limits your directions and control of uke. Instead of developing smooth and flowing combinations, you become reliant on explosive bursts and fakes. Worse, you might not learn how to properly use your tsurite and be one of those seoi players who get shut down whenever their opponent has a sleeve grip.
Learning how to off balance uke with the standard grip is a long investment, but can be worthwhile depending on your goals.
There is definitely good reason not to try to be a Koga clone at the start. Koga himself had very good fundamentals and still teaches the basics.
What are you guys calling a high shoulder grip? Like an armpit grip?
So how long have you been doing Judo, what "rank" are you ?
you get less reel/unreel at the end of the throw with the lapel grip. it's easier for uke to hit the roundoff since his arm isn't caught, and you can't unfurl into the armbar unless you've also gotten the underhook under their armpit and release the lapel grip for the wrist grip and proceed.
but
you can always get the underhook on the lapel from your own grip by pulling it over your own bicep, which is super slick. it's not as preferential kazushi-wize because you're still not gonna get the same pop or rotation of uke as they come onto their toes like they would from the elbow grip.
the choi is legit since when done properly it traps uke's arm between your bodies as you're going over. instead of an airfall uke has to backfall, which is much harder to flail out of given the transit time is much shorter and the trajectory is less apparent.
as a beginner, it's better to learn seoi nage the right way. in randori you're gonna gravitate towards moves that are easier to pull off against a resisting opponent because you'll feel better about the learning curve, but that's like bombing blue diamonds instead of trying double-black.
developing the kazushi to off-balance uke with the elbow grip is something i think is necessary and esoteric to judo. there are so many throws that benefit from that motion, and developing the strength for that sudden, snappy pull along the proper timing for entry is gonna help progress your judo much moreso than trying to grab cloth and whip around like a banshee.
Awesome, punching works for that guy in my dojo who´s very good with it but not for me, I have never done it in such a narrow stance, usually is like this ---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6C79XS9T4Y
Like this?
[YT]hrH_gM81CXg[/YT]
Kashiwazaki made a career out of these kinds of moves, but it's a very specialized style. I characterize that sort of thing as really good to have in your back pocket, but probably not the best choice for a go-to move.
Great post, and for a beginner I agree. I tend towards Tsuri Komi Goshi for the strong side throw for beginners (after O Goshi), and Sode Tsurikomi Goshi for the weak side, or both until a dominant side develops.
My thing is you need to know how to turn/throw to each side, and throw the guy either way. You don't have to be as good with both a right and left sleeve/lapel grip, but be able to use the sleeve lapel either way (hence the Sode TKG), and usually offside Ippon Seoinage. I've seen too many guys get locked into turning only left or right in the beginning (happened to me, decades ago, took me a long time to fix that).
Koga does indeed stress fundamentals. He developed his unique style due to an injured elbow, if I recall correctly.
The need to develop a good standing seoi nage is also critical to be able to do a Seoi Otoshi (aka knee-drop seoi nage) correctly and well. If you get the positioning and control down for standing really well, then the drop tends to come pretty naturally. Otherwise, you end up "spamming" drop seoi aka the good old "flop and drop".
That grip is a specialized grip in Judo. If your hand crosses over the centerline of his back, you have to attack more or less right away or get a penalty.
If you can make it work, it's good.
What kind of throws do you think are good from there.
What I mean is you get uke hunched over, and then drop your weight onto the top of his back, and just squash him down to his hands and knees.
reffed our state games yesterday
...remembered why I switched to BJJ :icon_chee
as a beginner, it's better to learn seoi nage the right way. in randori you're gonna gravitate towards moves that are easier to pull off against a resisting opponent because you'll feel better about the learning curve, but that's like bombing blue diamonds instead of trying double-black.
developing the kazushi to off-balance uke with the elbow grip is something i think is necessary and esoteric to judo. there are so many throws that benefit from that motion, and developing the strength for that sudden, snappy pull along the proper timing for entry is gonna help progress your judo much moreso than trying to grab cloth and whip around like a banshee.
I cannot remember any specific name of the grip that I described in my post above, its a grip on the front where the pectoralis meet the deltoids, so you'll touch the front delt with your fist when applying it. When attacking you may grab over the back with the other hand. I learned this way to grip from a hollandese heavyweight that used the same grip on both sides, but without grabbing the back. He spesialized in sasae and harai tsuri- komi-ashi to both sides while being very strong defensive...
can you explain please the blue diamonds phrase xD ?
That vid is more like a tomoe nage right? What I mean is you get uke hunched over, and then drop your weight onto the top of his back, and just squash him down to his hands and knees.
Can you send me the name of the sensei please?
I lived in Victoria BC but want to visit the province again one day...
What kind of throws do you think are good from there.
Is it polite to ask your instructor about possible promotion and testing for a new belt? I've been officially the same kyo rank for 3 years now.
No punch and no backstep video:
[YT]watch?v=i-oNQrLg33c[/YT]
obi tori gaeshi, which is the throw in that video above. it looks like tomoenage, but you're using your instep in their crotch instep of your foot in their belly, and your vectors are limited.
harai goshi
uchimata
hip tosses
we know what you mean, it's not a throw. it's not even scoring. a bad referee might even dream up some bullshit penalty to give you.
fwiw - if you can't identify basic wrestling/judo moves, you shouldn't be worrying yourself with novel technique. i'm not saying you should NEVER LEARN them, but it seems like you're in the 'silver bullet' phase of your judo career.
don't neglect developing your judo fundamentals to score points in randori.
don't go searching for mysterious techniques to pull on unsuspecting citrus belts.
if you show up to judo practice and try to snap people down until you can lay on them, you're wasting time. yours and everyone else's.
at the same place? how often do you train/compete?
if you frame it in the 'am i ready' or 'how can i get ready' most people should be really cool about letting you know one way or another.
I love that old man, when I get I do it like him sometimes..
Actually I never had the problem in the legs, it was my hands all the time, I couldn´t getting right---
Awesome, punching works for that guy in my dojo who´s very good with it but not for me, I have never done it in such a narrow stance, usually is like this ---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6C79XS9T4Y
You need to consider that the video of two step tai otoshi you posted is demonstrated in kenka yotsu.
Side note : about how many years does it take about to get a brown belt, in judo ?
4 years but I have been inconsistent.
I have mixed feelings about the last video. I know it's effective, but to me tai otoshi falls into a group of throws that are most effective using uke's momentum. So trying to statically break down uke is not optimal. You can deliver a lot more power in static situations with uchimata, for example.
I am not so good left vs. right with tai otoshi yet, having just recently picked up this throw, so it will be interesting to discover what other solutions there are. I much prefer a fluid movement scenario, but that is difficult to maintain left vs. right.
they're worried about juniors trying to bridge out of throws, so bridging on the head is an ippon and bridging on the shoulders is a wazari.
...so a lot of what looked like a yuko at best to me was apparently a wazari.
i do dig the push to change the rules though. i don't know if IJF's been reading my bitching but they're gonna start calling shidos in real time. also, other people have come to the independent conclusion that wristbands with colors would solve the hell out of so much signaling confusion, i'm hoping we eventually ditch the dinner jackets.
attendance was down too. granted most of the Judo is done at colleges and most colleges are on summer break, but i was lucky enough to play in some deep brackets when i was a lowly citrus belt and it made me a better player. i can't help but think a lot of people got sick of getting scolded for rashguards and 'pulling the head' and made the switch...
Oi! I've got another bit of homework from your posts. My weak side is primarily ashiwaza, not turning throws. I can do a seoi but hardly use it. I don't think I've ever hit a sode before.
It's not hard, I don't think. I can do the throws fine statically. But I just don't have the movement pattern for it, and also I've been the lanky type so seoi and sode weren't my focus.
Maybe I'll take a white belt and practice double lapel harai goshi, heh heh.
BKR, any other ways you like to do tai otoshi in kenka yotsu? The issue for me is I do not particularly like to do tai otoshi with a low sleeve grip, but that is often all you get in kenka yotsu. To achieve the same amount of pull, I could try throwing further away from uke and drawing his arm out for that, but that presents it's own host of problems.
I still think you should have called it 'Revenge of Marius Vizer'
BKR, what's your rank?
Guys, what do you think about practising uchi mata like this (main point is deep first step) ? :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BITx48jIoPs
Another very similar form of the throw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTk2C0vVMLs
RJ Green and QingTian-
Thanks for the posts. I agree with y'all; hence the post. I think lapel grip works for me simply because it's so much tighter, and so proper entry and kuzushi isn't as necessary.
But I do intend to actually start with local competitions soon and think there would be benefits in getting to actually throwing people. I don't do a whole lot of that with the standard lapel grip, particularly because I got virtually nothing but browns and blacks to play with, most of whom literally have decades of experience over me.
Interestingly, most uchimatas in competition clips seem to be done with a deep entry step. Sometimes it looks like an ouchi gari setup but sometimes it's just a step in.
Really glad we stumbled on this topic. Recently I've been doing righty-grip unorthodox ippon-seoinage. I believe that's what we're referring to? Holding lapel with right hand and left hand coming under as the hook in the armpit (pardon my terminology). It's been working like a dream in competitions but I don't know whether it's technique or the guys just haven't seen it at my level (Green and below). Is that throw considered a trick? I know some people look down on drop seoi-nage when done improperly, I'd rather not use a move as a crutch.
Of course, my sensei tells me that all the time , specially because I am the tallest and one of the heaviest but for uchikomi I was open my legs way too wide, I´ll do it this time from now on and whenever I get Tai otoshi is in moving oponent...I have mixed feelings about the last video. I know it's effective, but to me tai otoshi falls into a group of throws that are most effective using uke's momentum. So trying to statically break down uke is not optimal. You can deliver a lot more power in static situations with uchimata, for example.
I am not so good left vs. right with tai otoshi yet, having just recently picked up this throw, so it will be interesting to discover what other solutions there are. I much prefer a fluid movement scenario, but that is difficult to maintain left vs. right.
Pretty cool, I have always wanted to know Prince George, too bad is freaking cold on January or February-He is in Prince George...
here is one with him showing kenka yotsu situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdKkUp8lIWo
uchimata is such a popular throw i feel it gets silver-bullet-ed more than most.
one-stepping or using novel grips isn't wrong...unless you've never learned the throw to begin with.
it seems that especially with this throw, citrus belts look for shortcuts or gimmicks in order to throw something bearing a passing resemblance to uchimata. it may work during uchikomi or kata, but it won't work in randori.