Explain the liberal thought process on Illegal Aliens

[Rational Poster]

Not to sidetrack..
We could both have this exact same argument when it comes to gun control. The argument would be the same.

Gun violence is down therefore there is nothing to fix.. when gun violence goes back to the 1980s we can address it then. Is that a valid argument?

This is about people though, not objects.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

This is about people though, not objects.

People own guns.

If you are honest, you see the flaw in the argument though.

 

[Rational Poster]

People own guns.

If you are honest, you see the flaw in the argument though.

No, it seems like a useless deflection.

I'll always treat people differently from objects.

 

[Cuzcatlan]

Sanctuary cities main purpose i think is not to alienate an illegal community to make law enforcement easier isnt?

That being said i dont think most liberals support illegal immigration, they just see it as a better alternative to the fantasy scenario that a minority of the right believes about mass deportations.

They claim its for law enforcement but surprisingly they protect criminals from getting deported more than anything.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

No, it seems like a useless deflection.

I'll always treat people differently from objects.

No I'm just pointing out that your argument is poor. Your argument being.. it's not that bad now so we don't need to worry about it. (Decreasing illegal immigration)

 

[Rational Poster]

No I'm just pointing out that your argument is poor. Your argument being.. it's not that bad now so we don't need to worry about it. (Decreasing illegal immigration)

My argument is poor but as soon as I step on your toes you're deflecting and talking about guns.

 

[Trotsky]

Yes . . . because that high horse is totally what this comes down to.

Good grief some of y'all are dense.

Then what is it?

If it's beyond a doubt that it is impractical, hurts them, and hurts us, what is the purpose? Why aren't you illogically rigid in holding up absolutely all other malum prohibitum offenses?

Let's just go back to the speeding example: you know that ticketing every single person detected a mile over the limit would piss off the persons ticketed and would hurt all of us by bloating our police departments and municipal courts, slowing down our roads, and multiplying our taxes.....but the law is the law, dawg, right?

Right?

 

[Trotsky]

they conflate illegals with brown people
they consider brown people victims who cant be responsible for themselves
therefore deporting them is picking on people who are already victims

plus their children become citizens who will vote democrat to keep their parents around

Jesus, you're fucking dumb.

 

[spamking]

1.- Yes they would.

Based on what? What is so difficult about the current system/process?

2.- Make it easier to get working visas, make it easier for employers to recruit foreign workers.

What's the problem with the method for issue working visas right now? Is there some hole in recruitment that needs to be filled by foreign workers? Are these folks that need to be recruited making up a huge chunk of illegals?

 

[Rod1]

Based on what? What is so difficult about the current system/process?



What's the problem with the method for issue working visas right now? Is there some hole in recruitment that needs to be filled by foreign workers? Are these folks that need to be recruited making up a huge chunk of illegals?

1.- Really? based on reality.

Ill post this as an oversimplification because i dont even know where to start.

2.- It puts a massive bureacratic burden on the hiring of individuals and gives a lot of leeway to bureacrats to fuck you on the way.

For all that regulations talk of Republicans they seem to love excessive burden on the hiring of labor.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

They aren't an economic drain, our economy can use them, our immigration system is fucked and preys on the poor, people sympathize with persons fleeing poverty/violence/persecution/etc., people realize it's economically and politically detrimental to remove productive citizens on the basis of past transgressions made under duress, granting refuge is consistent with the spirit of the country's founding and what allowed it to be the most dominant culture in the world, it would generate billions and cost little to mass-naturalize but would cost billions in both administration and economic loss to deport them all.

I mean, how many explanations or routes of thought do you need? Only an idiot sees the issue as black and white, in which undocumented immigrants/immigration is bad and persons not outright wishing for deportation are bad.

Weird how communists suddenly care about the spirit of the country's founding when it suits them. It's also pretty dishonest to say granting refuge to third worlders is what made the US the dominant culture in the world. It was highly skilled migrants(like the jews that helped in the manhattan project or the nazis in the space program), natural resources and the power of arms that allowed the US to crush its enemies that made the US dominant. Not fruit pickers from mexico.

Anyway, low skilled immigrants are a long term economical drain.
https://www.economist.com/news/unit...simmigrationcannotplugtheholeinamericasbudget

They're just a short term boost to the economy because they're young and do not need to use some benefits yet.

 

[Fugazy]

The elderly don't own property? Also, there are some businesses, that own property, that are own by kids under 16.

Come on, you made a simply mistake just own up to it.

No dude.

I was commenting on a post that said 100% of illegals pay property tax and sales tax which literally cannot be true.

Before a certain age children don't shop or have property in their name.

After a certain age some elderly give up their land and houses to family members, and some portion of those people were never land or home owners. Some will just be "kept" by family members who will do their shopping, etc for them. That's actually more common among immigrants then born & bred Americans, those people tend to look after their elderly family and neighbors much more closely.

I also said that some people of every group fail to pay property taxes. That would include some illegals.

So without a doubt the claims made by @Trotsky that I am asserting are false, are in fact false.

And as far as children under 16 having property put into their name... that's an entirely different bowl of worms.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

The idea that every undocumented immigrant is getting 5/hr under the table is a myth. Those jobs are not all that numerous. The majority use fake or counterfeit SSN's.

There are plenty of illegals working their tails off for 5/hr under the table. Obviously due to the nature of this we can't get accurate statistics but I have first hand knowledge of the exact scenario you called a myth. To make it even worse, the owner of the business I'm referring to is a Mexican American. His company constructs and erects security fences. They build the fences in their shop and then go onsite to stand the fence up. He has illegals working in the shop, but the guys that go out and install the fences are legit. He pays the illegals under the minimum wage, and withholds "taxes" from their pay, which he keeps. Ironically, the undocumented laborers think he is doing them a big favor and treat him like a king.

 

[lifelessheap]

Illegals are a major strain on our healthcare and school system. They cost hundreds of billions a year. Then you have the rapes, murders and deaths caused by drunk driving. The suffering caused by illegals to our citizens is unimaginable.

I will gladly pay more for vegetables for a better society and lower taxes.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

If refugees and illegal immigrants were placed in the gated communities of liberal politicians and celebrities, then their views would change rather quickly. There would probably be laws passed for mass deportations happening within a week.

It is easy to dump illegals and refugees into working class areas and then condemn the people as racists for complaining when you live in an isolated community away from the deplorables and do not have to live with the consequences of your decisions.

just like section 8 housing

all for it, but NOT IN MY BACKYARD hahahahah

 

[Trotsky]

There are plenty of illegals working their tails off for 5/hr under the table. Obviously due to the nature of this we can't get accurate statistics but I have first hand knowledge of the exact scenario you called a myth. To make it even worse, the owner of the business I'm referring to is a Mexican American. His company constructs and erects security fences. They build the fences in their shop and then go onsite to stand the fence up. He has illegals working in the shop, but the guys that go out and install the fences are legit. He pays the illegals under the minimum wage, and withholds "taxes" from their pay, which he keeps. Ironically, the undocumented laborers think he is doing them a big favor and treat him like a king.

That's messed up.

I honestly do not have any moral or political qualms with employing undocumented workers so long as you're paying them minimum wage and their payroll and income taxes are getting reported and paid to the government. But that's exploitative of both the workers and the market.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Aliens staying here illegally should be sent back to space.

 

[Trotsky]

No dude.

I was commenting on a post that said 100% of illegals pay property tax and sales tax which literally cannot be true.

Before a certain age children don't shop or have property in their name.

After a certain age some elderly give up their land and houses to family members, and some portion of those people were never land or home owners. Some will just be "kept" by family members who will do their shopping, etc for them. That's actually more common among immigrants then born & bred Americans, those people tend to look after their elderly family and neighbors much more closely.

I also said that some people of every group fail to pay property taxes. That would include some illegals.

So without a doubt the claims made by @Trotsky that I am asserting are false, are in fact false.

And as far as children under 16 having property put into their name... that's an entirely different bowl of worms.

Yes, you got me.

When I said "all undocumented immigrants pay into property taxes," I should have said "all undocumented immigrants of the legal age that is required of all residents pay into property taxes and taken as a given in all discussions of demographics and ethnic groups" so as to preclude some dolt thinking he'll flex his semantical genius.

 

[Losfer Words]

In theory, its not hard to understand any partisan stance regardless of your personal beliefs. In practice its hard to understand any governmental policy, partisan or not.

 

[original doom]

personally I have no issues w/ illegal immigration, if they aren't also committing crimes (and not simply the crime of being here illegally)...

I mean I don't know about yall, but I'm not washing dishes in a restaurant or landscaping or doing construction

Does that mean no one else will ?