Where did this narrative of Dj not being a bigger star due to ufcs failure to properly promote begin

Coolidge said:
It's not. And no, I'm not moving the goalpost. I'm discussing the exact same thing. These things take time. It took years and years before Anderson Silva finally caught on with the mainstream.
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Yes it is and yes you are.

Projection is not the same thing as current value.

The current value is what someone is willing to pay for it right now. People can *project* the value of something in the future based on XYZ. But it doesn't become real until people pay for it in the future.

And again, what *specifically* is going to change the trend of Mighty Mouse's buys/viewership/etc? Be specific.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
Yes it is and yes you are.

Projection is not the same thing as current value.

The current value is what someone is willing to pay for it right now. People can *project* the value of something in the future based on XYZ. But it doesn't become real until people pay for it in the future.

And again, what *specifically* is going to change the trend of Mighty Mouse's buys/viewership/etc? Be specific.
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Except it's not.

Bellator didn't sign Gegard Mousasi because they have tangible evidence of his value and popularity. Yes, potential is a factor. The fact that Mighty Mouse hasn't caught on with audiences (yet) doesn't mean anything. It takes time.
 
Coolidge said:
Except it's not.

Bellator didn't sign Gegard Mousasi because they have tangible evidence of his monetary value. Yes, potential is a factor. The fact that Mighty Mouse hasn't caught on with audiences (yet) doesn't mean anything. It takes time.
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You don't seem to understand the difference between value at a point in time and projection based on your posting. They aren't the same thing, economically or in terms of business. I'm not sure why you are struggling with this concept. With any fighter, the value of their labor is what they get paid for through contract(s). The *projection* by the organization is that over time they will make money off the fighter than they paid for by contract.

Again, can you please answer my direct question?

"What *specifically* is going to change the trend of Mighty Mouse's buys/viewership/etc? Be specific."

No vague generalities please.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
And again, what *specifically* is going to change the trend of Mighty Mouse's buys/viewership/etc? Be specific.
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If you can't come up with any answers on your own, then I obviously can't help you. You can look at Anderson's career trajectory and find your answer. Floyd Mayweather spent a decade fighting in relative obscurity and didn't become a household name until late in his career. The same can happen with any MMA fighter.
 
Coolidge said:
If you can't come up with any answers on your own, then I obviously can't help you. You can look at Anderson's career trajectory and find your answer. Floyd Mayweather spent a decade fighting in relative obscurity and didn't become a household name until late in his career. The same can happen with any MMA fighter.
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No one claims a person's (or whatever it is) value is stable over time. What in the world would be the point of forecasting if that was the case?

You are erecting a strawman to knock it down.

P.S.- No one is impressed with the chest-thumping routine of "I can't help you". That's basically the male version of the girl saying "omg I can't even".
 
The point isn't if he is the best fighter ever...

The point is hardly anybody cares..

and I guarantee he has a higher percentage of fans here than mainstream

Anderson Silva was a god by his 5 defense and taking on higher weight classes. Dj ducks real threats to his run
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
No one claims a person's (or whatever it is) value is stable over time. What in the world would be the point of forecasting if that was the case?

You are erecting a strawman to knock it down.
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This is what you said:

"The UFC has done enough testing and promotion of Mighty Mouse that there would be meaningful movement already if the ceiling was as high as you are implying."

You were talking out of your ass. You don't determine what constitutes 'enough' testing and promotion. That's the UFC's job. They're the ones with the access to the numbers, analytics, and trends. All fighters are not alike. They don't catch on with the public at the same rate.
 
Coolidge said:
This is what you said:

"The UFC has done enough testing and promotion of Mighty Mouse that there would be meaningful movement already if the ceiling was as high as you are implying."

You were talking out of your ass. You don't determine what constitutes 'enough' testing and promotion. That's the UFC's job. They're the ones with the access to the numbers, analytics, and trends. All fighters are not alike. They don't catch on with the public at the same rate.
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I work in a highly analytic field, and while I don't know enough to know the exact margins, I certainly know enough to know he isn't going to see a *magnitude* of increase to the degree you are implying.

How about we make an account bet that swings on the basis of *demonstrated* preferences regarding Mighty Mouse's popularity?

You pick the measurement period. You pick the benchmarks (obviously, that roughly equate to this massive spike in popularity you are projecting). Since you have more posts than me, I'd even be willing to give you odds.

How about it? Let's see if you actually believe your thesis...
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
I work in a highly analytic field, and while I don't know enough to know the exact margins, I certainly know enough to know he isn't going to see a *magnitude* of increase to the degree you are implying.
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No, you don't. This sport is too volatile and unpredictable. Conor McGregor went from a nobody fighting on a Fuel TV card to a major star in a span of just a few fights. That's how fast things can change. Kevin Lee is another good example. Nobody knew who Kevin Lee was until he started trolling and had the incident with Michael Chiesa. It was an almost instantaneous change. You don't know what Mighty Mouse is going to do or who Mighty Mouse is going to fight next. That's going to determine how much his popularity increases.
 
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Defeat Unknown said:
There is an issue with UFC's ability to get their fighters out there to potential demographics. Tyron has a point in UFC missing his market. They're marketing is extremely limited, as is who they reach.

DJ is the best fighter in the world. He's also a regular man with a family, and a gamer. UFC has no idea what to do with any of that, just like they have no idea what to do with anyone else.

.
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This. This is basic job description people.

MM is the fighter. The fighters job is to make weight, fight (preferably in an entertaining fashion) and win, preferably in an exciting way most of the time, and preferably with a finish. It is completely beyond doubt that MM is doing his job. He wins every time, has more title defenses than anyone, ever. he fights in exciting fashion and he wins by finish a high % of the time. He is doing his fucking job. What more can you ask of MM?

The UFC is the promoter. It is their job to promote the fucking fighter. It this their job to make people interested in the fighter. And it is their job to get people to either pay to go to the events and watch the fighters or pay to watch them on PPV. And for doing this, they get the overwhelming majority of the revenue from the fights and their broadcast.

The UFC is shitty at promoting-period.
 
Coolidge said:
No, you don't. This sport is too volatile and unpredictable. Conor McGregor went from a nobody fighting on a Fuel TV card to a major star in a span of just a few fights. That's how fast things can change. Kevin Lee is a good example. Nobody knew who Kevin Lee was until he started trolling and had the incident with Michael Chiesa. He went from a nobody to a somebody in an instant. You don't know what Mighty Mouse is going to do or who Mighty Mouse is going to fight next. That's going to determine how much his popularity increases.
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Even though once again, we are talking about *PROJECTED* value, and not real value at a point in time, let's bet on it.

I'll let you pick the measurement period. I'll let you pick the benchmarks (assuming they are indeed reflective of your projection). I'll give you odds.

Deal? Or are you a coward?
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
Sherdog is a tiny, tiny percentage of the market for MMA.

And besides, it's trivial to start a thread. The best indicator of value for X is how much someone is willing to pay for X. And people simply aren't parting with their money for Mighty Mouse.
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I believe you're wrong. It's not that people aren't willing to pay, it's that there are easy to find free alternatives if you know what you're doing. And, in MM case especially, younger fans (who watch twitch and go on reddit and shit) who are newer to the sport and don't know of a time where FlW didn't exist are knowledgeable and acclimated enough to have access to that free option.

MM fanbase just doesn't translate to the PPV model.
 
cooks1 said:
The UFC is the promoter. It is their job to promote the fucking fighter. It this their job to make people interested in the fighter. And it is their job to get people to either pay to go to the events and watch the fighters or pay to watch them on PPV. And for doing this, they get the overwhelming majority of the revenue from the fights and their broadcast.

The UFC is shitty at promoting-period.
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What specifically has the UFC not done to promote him that they could be doing?

Be specific.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
How about we make an account bet that swings on the basis of *demonstrated* preferences regarding Mighty Mouse's popularity?
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How about no? That wouldn't even be practical. The UFC's PPV numbers are in the dump in general.
 
pilgrim4702 said:
faber is a midget but he's loved and grew his star power by not taking bums to decisions or waiting until it was totally safe and the crowd was asleep from boredom to go for an exciting finish.

This isn't a post on goat or rankings or skill level.

Fans are clear what they want to see; they want excitement and charisma.

Rousey 1 rd demolitions

Conor's wars w Diaz and explosive ko's

Gsp's marquee 'it' factor ( his fights weren't exciting but he had some type of appeal that for some reason when he fought made people feel like they were walking onto an exotic car dealership or something.

Nick Diaz attitude

Fedor, jones, Andersons destructions of elite fighters and sense of invincibility

Mm uses a safety first style until virtually all risk is removed then he goes for the finish. There's like, no excitement in his fights for the average paying fan.
No 'war' aspect that Nate Diaz, gaetche, Conor, fedor, and others bring to the table when they fight.

The only thing worse than watching a 5'2" man fight is watching his fight safe, in addition to watching him fight safe against a Ray Borg caliber fighter for 4.5 Rds.

It's not UFC fault that mm lacks the fighting style, charisma, or marquee factor of other fighters. He could start helping himself by going out there and violently destroying Ray Borg within two Rds, like Conor does to fighters 39947473
Times better than Ray Borg, in 1/10th the time.

What does mm expect w his performances against Tim Elliot, Ray Borg and Wilson reis, when other fighters are giving us wars fought at just as high a skill level against better opponents. No amount of promotion is going to salvage or make us care about his performance against Tim Elliot or Rds 1-4 vs Borg.
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WEC Faber became a star going out in the community, promoting himself and selling tickets.
 
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