UFN 123 - Swanson vs Ortega - Fresno, CA

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Well Ortega's MO has been late round finishes, so not too surprising why that narrative is out there. Some of the guys he has finished late aren't known to fade either (Moicano, guida, etc.). Ortega's pressure just seems to force guys to make mistakes late. I am on Cub btw.
 
pulling the trigger on moraes -140. these guys and their teams train together.. first time mark henry and serra-longo have ever gone against each other like i said earlier (i think, anyway?) -- think this becomes a technical pointfighting striking battle as a result - for sure gotta favor moraes in that.
 
After rewatching last few from each I have the same feelings as ill800. Bet Cub hard at -125 before rewatching tape as I thought lines would move the other way. After digging deeper I don't like a huge bet on Cub, will probably arb down lbing assuming better odds. Cub's speed and variety standing should give Ortega issues and if Cub comes in with a JW gameplan, he should take it. That said, Ortega did a much better job pressuring Mociano and Cub found himself in some dicey situations agasint Choi that would get him in trouble against Ortega. If Ortega can keep that pressure against a more powerful puncher and Cub is content to clinch and grapple like he did vs Choi, I could see him getting caught. Favor cub for sure, but my current 4.2u on him was overbet. Hedged a bit with Ortega rd 5 and beleive Cub wins early rounds to allow me to lessen my exposure at better odds.

Before watching tape and when the fight was first announced, I was pretty confident that it was going to be an easy win for Cub Swanson and I was really surprised it was essentially a pickem line.

After watching tape, for those that think it's going to be an easy win for Cub Swanson, you might surprised. I think this fight is going to be a dogfight and the line is set just about right.

Watching tape on Brian Ortega and even though he is a BJJ guy, his striking is improving and not bad, not exactly fluid but it works for him and his strategy to walk guys down and break them down with strikes over a fight while waiting for his opponent to make a mistake. The kid is tough as nails, great forward pressure, good cardio and a really good chin.

Cub Swanson definitely has the striking and speed advantage but he is pretty chaotic and gets himself in bad situations like other posters have mentioned and that's a bad strategy against Brian Ortega over 5 rounds. With Ortega and his forward pressure, Swanson is going to have to fight off his backfoot which he isn't as effective too.

Some concerns I have is Lobov was landing on Swanson even though he won handily imo but Lobov only has a 65' reach but Ortega has a 69' inch reach and better forward pressure, Swanson is 70' reach which is almost identical. So if Lobov was landing, Ortega will land. The Moicano fight, Ortega was getting outstruck because he was trading shot for shot with Moicano who had a 3' reach advantage and cleaner technique (straighter punches), Swanson isn't really going to have that reach advantage.

I would feel more confident betting Swanson in a 3 round fight and if he was just a stick and move striker but he isn't, he likes getting in chaotic striking situations because that's his style but that's beneficial for Ortega who is looking for small openings. This is going to be a really close dogfight imo.
 
I'm a little confused why people seem to be acting like the ground's ultra-poison for Swanson. This fight really reminds me of the dynamic of Pettis-Moreno. Swanson's a legit Black Belt, and will likely not get insta-subbed if it hits the ground. Tavares spent 2 rounds on the ground surviving/winning in their fight before getting dropped in the third, and it's not like Tavares has any Mundials under his belt. Swanson will most likely be able to hold his own on the ground even if he shouldn't be spending extended periods there, and will have a gigantic advantage in the striking.
 
Was going to skip on moraes but -137 might be playable. -125 definitely would be.
 
I'm a little confused why people seem to be acting like the ground's ultra-poison for Swanson. This fight really reminds me of the dynamic of Pettis-Moreno. Swanson's a legit Black Belt, and will likely not get insta-subbed if it hits the ground. Tavares spent 2 rounds on the ground surviving/winning in their fight before getting dropped in the third, and it's not like Tavares has any Mundials under his belt. Swanson will most likely be able to hold his own on the ground even if he shouldn't be spending extended periods there, and will have a gigantic advantage in the striking.

That's a good point. Obviously not where Cub wants to be, but no certain thing that he gets dominated should it go there. As a Cub backer I definitely don't want scrambling/grappling to be a major part of the fight, however.
 
Gritz rising line has made me ponder a stab at him

Don’t like much about him. Nor do I like the fact that he’s moved up to 155 and Ramos is coming down from 170

If gritz can grind on him without getting subbed he could steal a decision

If gritz line continues to go up I may have to take a look at how Ramos looks at the weigh in
 
I'm a little confused why people seem to be acting like the ground's ultra-poison for Swanson. This fight really reminds me of the dynamic of Pettis-Moreno. Swanson's a legit Black Belt, and will likely not get insta-subbed if it hits the ground. Tavares spent 2 rounds on the ground surviving/winning in their fight before getting dropped in the third, and it's not like Tavares has any Mundials under his belt. Swanson will most likely be able to hold his own on the ground even if he shouldn't be spending extended periods there, and will have a gigantic advantage in the striking.

Ortega fucked Tavares up both off his back and on top. Moicano and Tavares specialize in BJJ, I believe they're both black belts as well
 
Gritz rising line has made me ponder a stab at him

Don’t like much about him. Nor do I like the fact that he’s moved up to 155 and Ramos is coming down from 170

If gritz can grind on him without getting subbed he could steal a decision

If gritz line continues to go up I may have to take a look at how Ramos looks at the weigh in

ramos has never fought at ww before that short notice fight with moraes, the guy is 5'8 a legit lw.
 
will brooks had five round experience in bellator and it did nothing to help him in the ufc.

cubs been five with stevens, lobov and edgar, big diference.

dont know why people are so certain that ortega will hold advantages in the 4th and 5th round.
I see your point about the difference in the quality of opposition in five rounders. Just didn't know you meant UFC only so just wanted to shed some info.

Ortega's ability to perform against top flight UFC competition in a five round fight is definitely a question mark, but as some others have mentioned, his performances against guys known for their gas tank and his ability to break them through pressure shows some good signs. Ortega also seemingly always comes on strongest late so that's another reason, but I don't think it's a for certain thing at all.
 
Ortega fucked Tavares up both off his back and on top. Moicano and Tavares specialize in BJJ, I believe they're both black belts as well
Both are blackbelts. Just chiming in, but in an interview he did with Luke Thomas, he was asked why he thinks his BJJ is so effective and he responded by saying he believes it's because of his philosophy. He approaches it like a do or die street fight and is keenly aware of moves that work only in competition under a BJJ rule set, positions that are compromised due to the availability of striking and spots where he can inflict the most damage. Training with some of the most direct lineage of the art and being Gracie certified also probably doesn't hurt.
 
I might be able to get video of Merab’s fight against Paul Grant (Paul is a teammate & very good friend of mine) pm me if you want it. Also need you to not post it anywhere else if I do get it.
 
Am I the only one that thinks Alcantara wins again Perez here? Perez looks like another mediocre fighter in the same vein as someone like Marco Beltran. I don't see what he offers that neutralizes the huge upside of Alcantara -- especially when considering the numerous bad spots Entwhistle had him in.
 
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Ortega fucked Tavares up both off his back and on top. Moicano and Tavares specialize in BJJ, I believe they're both black belts as well
I think both moicano and tavares propably got a stronger ground game then Cub
 
Am I the only one that thinks Alcantara wins again Perez here? Perez looks like another mediocre fighter in the same vein as someone like Marco Beltran. I don't see what he offers that neutralizes the huge upside of Alcantara -- especially when considering the numerous bad spots Entwhistle had him in.
Perez sucks but he finds ways to weasle a decision
 
From what I see the whole forum including me is on:
Holtzman
Liz Carmouche
Luke Sanders
I hope its a good sign.
Guys any leans to Trevin Giles and Davi Ramos?
In my opinion Trevin has quite good wrestling, pace and decent stand up. His oponnent will have ring rust for sure.
David Ramos has big grappling advantage and size. Not to mention Skelly tapped out Gruetzmacher in his last fight.

What do you think ?!
 
Perez sucks but he finds ways to weasle a decision

I wouldn't say he "sucks"... in terms of an integrated MMA skillset, he's actually one of the best guys in the division... that's how he weasels those decisions, and that's how he makes up for a lack of size, talent, and not being great at anything.

This is a pretty bad matchup for him, though, as the way to beat Alcantara is pressure, which is not his strongsuit.
 
I wouldn't say he "sucks"... in terms of an integrated MMA skillset, he's actually one of the best guys in the division... that's how he weasels those decisions, and that's how he makes up for a lack of size, talent, and not being great at anything.

This is a pretty bad matchup for him, though, as the way to beat Alcantara is pressure, which is not his strongsuit.
Fuck Perez , I was asking about Trevin and David Ramos
 
I see your point about the difference in the quality of opposition in five rounders. Just didn't know you meant UFC only so just wanted to shed some info.

Ortega's ability to perform against top flight UFC competition in a five round fight is definitely a question mark, but as some others have mentioned, his performances against guys known for their gas tank and his ability to break them through pressure shows some good signs. Ortega also seemingly always comes on strongest late so that's another reason, but I don't think it's a for certain thing at all.

i was just making a point that ortega is not the only one that has a chance of winning in rounds four and five.

the fact that brian also missed weight last fight (he blamed a shoulder injury iirc) and that cub knows how to fight five rounds against proven ufc caliber fighters, imo, +3300 is a solid prop
 
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