California high school student body bans National Anthem from rallies

[thechoice2]

no you can't

the simple act of protesting and demanding something is removed means you're upset and perturbed....

you tried tho

Did they protest or simply have a vote to have it removed? Voting to remove something means you're upset and perturbed in what world?

From the article the only one that meets your criteria of being triggered was Fiorentionos

Fiorentinos said that he’s most upset because there was no open process at California High School in decided to ban the anthem from rallies.

Poor fella triggered because a song will no longer be played before an event the song has no bearing on and absolutely nothing to do with.

 

[nostradumbass]

I don't really care about the anthem, but what the hell is up with immigrants coming here and trying to make it more like the shit hole place they just fled? There's a reason immigration is almost entirely in 1 direction.

And "inclusion" can s my c also. Childhood is when you're supposed to learn how to function in the existing world, not to try to make everyone else conform to whatever goofy shit you're into that week. Racial inclusion is a good thing, but I'm out when that gets extended to goths, 52 genders etc.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I'm not sure you understand what a straw man is. I have laid out my logic and given you the opportunity to disagree. I'm still waiting for you to provide the alternative explanation.

Other than (1) persons who join for pragmatic self-interested reasons such as personal betterment, career opportunity, or social prestige and (2) persons who think they are serving some greater patriotic purpose, who joins the military? And do you disagree that members of that second group are woefully naive in not foreseeing that they will become an amoral weapon?

i completely do, thanks for the lesson tho

'other than 1' is a highly disingenuous statement b/c that describes the vast vast majority of people that join the military. Personal betterment, get out of small town, career and travel opportunity, learn a trade, and educational benefits......

And no I don't agree that people are Naïve, unless you assume that people that join are borderline retarded (which I certainly don't). Nobody joins combat arms MOS of the Army or Marines (the people that actually do the fighting) and is unsure about what they do, quite the opposite, it's why they pick that job.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Did they protest or simply have a vote to have it removed? Voting to remove something means you're upset and perturbed in what world?

From the article the only one that meets your criteria of being triggered was Fiorentionos



Poor fella triggered because a song will no longer be played before an event the song has no bearing on and absolutely nothing to do with.

so votes are called spontaneously, for no reason, when nobody has any issue w/ the status quo?

cmon son

 

[thechoice2]

so votes are called spontaneously, for no reason, when nobody has any issue w/ the status quo?

cmon son

Having an issue doesn't mean you're triggered you dolt. You have an issue with people wanting the national anthem removed, are you triggered?

That's irrational, you can't defend your original position so you just keep moving the goalposts. Just admit everything you've said could apply to yourself and save the trouble. Having the national anthem removed triggered you, it's ok, when people in the NFL kneeled for it, it triggered a lot of Americans too.

 

[nostradumbass]

I'm not sure you understand what a straw man is. I have laid out my logic and given you the opportunity to disagree. I'm still waiting for you to provide the alternative explanation.

Other than (1) persons who join for pragmatic self-interested reasons such as personal betterment, career opportunity, or social prestige and (2) persons who think they are serving some greater patriotic purpose, who joins the military? And do you disagree that members of that second group are woefully naive in not foreseeing that they will become an amoral weapon?

I know you're a member of the military. I also know that you don't usually flaunt or virtue-signal on the matter, so I presume you already are closer to my perspective than you'd like to say.

A lot join because it's a decent career and can also pay for college or stick with it instead of college. Probably some that join out of patriotism, but I doubt that number is over 15%.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Having an issue doesn't mean you're triggered you dolt. You have an issue with people wanting the national anthem removed, are you triggered?

That's irrational, you can't defend your original position so you just keep moving the goalposts. Just admit everything you've said could apply to yourself and save the trouble. Having the national anthem removed triggered you, it's ok, when people in the NFL kneeled for it, it triggered a lot of Americans too.

I'm not emotional whatsoever, I literally don't get triggered. If laughing at someone is triggered, then we need to seriously examine the basic definitions of words then
Respect tho, once again you tried

 

[The ScorpioN]

i completely do, thanks for the lesson tho

'other than 1' is a highly disingenuous statement b/c that describes the vast vast majority of people that join the military. Personal betterment, get out of small town, career and travel opportunity, learn a trade, and educational benefits......

To be fair, those things are covered in his (1) point.

I'm just not sure why is @Trotsky seemingly makes it a pejorative.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

To be fair, those things are covered in his (1) point.

I'm just not sure why is @Trotsky making it a pejorative.

They're covered, just IMO, heavily downplayed to make a pt

although perhaps I read into it wrong, that could totally be it too

 

[Trotsky]

i completely do, thanks for the lesson tho

'other than 1' is a highly disingenuous statement b/c that describes the vast vast majority of people that join the military. Personal betterment, get out of small town, career and travel opportunity, learn a trade, and educational benefits......

So, it's not disingenuous: it is in fact completely accurate, and could explain being otherwise apathetic to moral or political consequences of their profession. There is nothing wrong with self-interest. However, it does become less defensible when you are directly engaging in violence and intervention in other peoples' lives.

And no I don't agree that people are Naïve, unless you assume that people that join are borderline retarded (which I certainly don't). Nobody joins combat arms MOS of the Army or Marines (the people that actually do the fighting) and is unsure about what they do, quite the opposite, it's why they pick that job.

I don't assume enlistees are "borderline retarded." I assume they are, on average, less intelligent than the highest functioning members of society, but are as a baseline more intelligent than the lowest functioning members. I'd proffer an estimate that the lion's share of enlistees are between the 15th and 65th percentile of society in terms of intelligence, with most outliers being at the upper end.

I do assume, however, that, relative to the magnitude of their profession and their potential actions, the average soldier (read: the anti- @mcveteran81) is just as horribly uninformed about international policy, current events, and strife as the average American. The difference is that the average American doesn't directly bloody their hands in furthering US hegemony.

A supplementary quote from a man much greater than I:

 

[HunterSdVa29]

So, it's not disingenuous: it is in fact completely accurate, and could explain being otherwise apathetic to moral or political consequences of their profession. There is nothing wrong with self-interest. However, it does become less defensible when you are directly engaging in violence and intervention in other peoples' lives.



I don't assume enlistees are "borderline retarded." I assume they are, on average, less intelligent than the highest functioning members of society, but are as a baseline more intelligent than the lowest functioning members. I'd proffer an estimate that the lion's share of enlistees are between the 15th and 65th percentile of society in terms of intelligence, with most outliers being at the upper end.

I do assume, however, that, relative to the magnitude of their profession and their potential actions, the average soldier (read: the anti- @mcveteran81) is just as horribly uninformed about international policy, current events, and strife as the average American. The difference is that the average American doesn't directly bloody their hands in furthering US hegemony.

A supplementary quote from a man much greater than I:

the average Servicemember never even comes remotely close to seeing combat though....they're Fobbits

I've already posted the numbers of CIB/CAR/CABs given out during the GWOT era, and it's staggeringly low especially when you consider you can 'earn' one by simply being certain vehicle spaces w/in a convoy that any vehicle included is hit

the Average servicemember NEVER comes remotely close to getting their hands bloodied. And i'm talking about the Marines/Army, that number is virtually nonexistent for the Navy, USCG, and USAF

 

[Trotsky]

A lot join because it's a decent career and can also pay for college or stick with it instead of college. Probably some that join out of patriotism, but I doubt that number is over 15%.

I would presume, somewhat ignorantly of course, that this statistic is about right.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to be an effective member of the US military, one most often has to either be ignorant to or apathetic to the effect of US military policy.

That is true of most any military throughout history, but the moral and political burden falls most on the United States due to our unparalleled position as the world's preeminent super power and our citizens' historically unequaled access to information.

 

[Trotsky]

the average Servicemember never even comes remotely close to seeing combat though....they're Fobbits

I've already posted the numbers of CIB/CAR/CABs given out during the GWOT era, and it's staggeringly low especially when you consider you can 'earn' one by simply being certain vehicle spaces w/in a convoy that any vehicle included is hit

the Average servicemember NEVER comes remotely close to getting their hands bloodied.

I should have clarified my language.

I was not suggesting that every service member directly kills people. But they do, foreclosing exorbitant military waste, play integral roles in the political organism that does.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I would presume, somewhat ignorantly of course, that this statistic is about right.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to be an effective member of the US military, one most often has to either be ignorant to or apathetic to the effect of US military policy.

That is true of most any military throughout history, but the moral and political burden falls most on the United States due to our unparalleled position as the world's preeminent super power and our citizens' historically unequaled access to information.

So despite most never coming close to actually harming anyone, they're still inherently ignorant of US Foreign Policy?

despite being located at ground zero, implementing said policy?

so we're just gonna ignore the Humanitarian missions much of the US Military is involved in? I spent 3 months myself in Djibouti, what do you think we were doing there?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I should have clarified my language.

I was not suggesting that every service member directly kills people. But they do, foreclosing exorbitant military waste, play integral roles in the political organism that does.

fair enough, and I actually understand your point

But I think A) people w/ more uh sociopathic tendencies join the military for inherent reasons, and B) you are broken down in Boot camp to learn to embrace the suck. That also helps people deal w/ whatever wild things they have to either witness, do, coverup, whatever.....

Moreso than any type of violence, it takes a certain type of person to join if anything due to the lack of labor laws and personal space/respect. No days off downrange, no overtime, routine 24 hour duty where no sleeping is allowed, hurry and wait to stand places for 3 hours for no reason, ruckmarching for 20+ miles for no reason, waking up early, forced exercise, etc....

 

[nostradumbass]

I would presume, somewhat ignorantly of course, that this statistic is about right.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to be an effective member of the US military, one most often has to either be ignorant to or apathetic to the effect of US military policy.

That is true of most any military throughout history, but the moral and political burden falls most on the United States due to our unparalleled position as the world's preeminent super power and our citizens' historically unequaled access to information.

I think you're overthinking it. There's maybe some apathy, but by and large, at least from the few military people I know, it's discipline and a career path. Also pretty young retirement.

 

[IIIIIIII]

am surprised that this took place in san ramon. i grew up not far from that area, and it's a mid-upper class town with a more conservative leaning. it looks like all areas of the bay area are becoming liberal.

 

[Trotsky]

So despite most never coming close to actually harming anyone, they're still inherently ignorant of US Foreign Policy?

Yes. What does one have to do with the other?

Also, there is nothing "inherent" about lack of international knowledge. It just so happens that something like 98% of American are insufficiently informed on that subject, and those who are not aren't joining the US military.

I think you're overthinking it. There's maybe some apathy, but by and large, at least from the few military people I know, it's discipline and a career path. Also pretty young retirement.

I think that everyone else (in the US and in every other developed country) is underthinking it. To benefit oneself with no regard for the aggregate effect on others, even those whom you may never see, is civically irresponsible. The insulation of military bureaucracy from humanistic consideration is extremely dangerous. Just look at all the war crimes countries like ours have overseen and allowed.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I think we just have a massive disagreement on the meaning of 'civically irresponsible'

I spent a year in Afghanistan, for instance, not only did we actively and undeniably IMPROVE that country and it's society (girls can now attend school in SOME parts of the country, for instance, not in the past tho), that country was so bad there was no way for us to make it worse. You don't need a Driver's License to drive there, for example, and do people know why that is? Prior to the US involvement in Afghanistan in 2001, THERE WERE LESS THAN 75 KM OF PAVED ROAD IN THE ENTIRE NATION and that was all done by the Russians in their time there hahahahah

The Average Afghan is also illiterate, for instance. It's routine to rape boys and livestock, and women literally can't be shown in public for fear of being snatched by Afghan men.

Forgive many of us for not feeling a civic responsibility to treat that society w/ kids gloves. To me, not intervening would be even more inhuman, to just allow thm to live this way and chalk it up as 'different cultures' is more apathetic to me than actually trying to intervene

 

[nostradumbass]

Yes. What does one have to do with the other?

Also, there is nothing "inherent" about lack of international knowledge. It just so happens that something like 98% of American are insufficiently informed on that subject, and those who are not aren't joining the US military.



I think that everyone else (in the US and in every other developed country) is underthinking it. To benefit oneself with no regard for the aggregate effect on others, even those whom you may never see, is civically irresponsible. The insulation of military bureaucracy from humanistic consideration is extremely dangerous. Just look at all the war crimes countries like ours have overseen and allowed.

I mean overthinking their motivation to join. We overuse our military for sure, but it is important to have a strong one in case it's needed.