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Well, the Gracies basically learned regular Judo ne-waza and simply slapped their name on it so...And BJJ came from Judo, does that make Royce Gracie a Judoka?
Well, the Gracies basically learned regular Judo ne-waza and simply slapped their name on it so...And BJJ came from Judo, does that make Royce Gracie a Judoka?
And BJJ came from Judo, does that make Royce Gracie a Judoka?
Well, the Gracies basically learned regular Judo ne-waza and simply slapped their name on it so...
I was joking about Judo = BJJ...Shit posting aside - I genuinely don't think there is enough difference between point style karate and taekwondo to consider them different martial arts - I was talking to @AshiharaFan about this and he seemed to agree. I'd say there's more difference between kyokushin karate and shotokan than there is between shotokan and taekwondo.
I've been thinking about this a lot because I've been doing a lot of research into the Muay Thai family of martial arts, including Muay Lao, Tomoi Lethwei etc. - I've been talking to the number 1 expert on it as well, a guy who's trained in all of them - and he has essentially said that it's all just Muay Thai under different name.
I think aside from things like form - the difference to me is how it changes the athlete as a fighter.
I don't think there is a lot of difference between a shotokan and taekwondo fighter, or a lethwei and muay thai fighter save for a few techniques here and there - when it comes to form.
But I think BJJ and Judo is more distance than Judo and Sambo - where sambo is essentially Judo with the old banned moves back in legally, and less restriction on body locks - but as athletes they're not as different as BJJ and Judo - where the focus on ground game means that BJJ fighters develop a very different technical skill set and no where near the level of explosive athleticism as judo.
I know this thread isn't about Judo, but that's just my thoughts on whether X = Y
Shit posting aside - I genuinely don't think there is enough difference between point style karate and taekwondo to consider them different martial arts - I was talking to @AshiharaFan about this and he seemed to agree. I'd say there's more difference between kyokushin karate and shotokan than there is between shotokan and taekwondo.
I was joking about Judo = BJJ...
And while I agree that Shotokan is much more similar to TKD than it is to Kyokushin I'm not going to lump TKD in here because I will get MAD SHIT for it. At least both Shotokan and Kyokushin identify themselves as Karate. TKD doesn't.
Huh? Did I miss that? Please point me to it so I may also be triggered.After my karate combat video triggered a thousand karateka who seemed to hallucinate me saying things that I didn't - I've decided that I live to trigger TMA guys
Kudos for the extensive input. I've nothing to add simply because I agree with every word. That and I'm working from home on a tiny laptop which isn't comfortable for typing.@Hotora86, I'm surprise you haven't had more to say about my last few posts.
I figured you'd have a perspective you'd like to add.
Inboxing!Huh? Did I miss that? Please point me to it so I may also be triggered.
It wasn't called "Karate" until Funakoshi in Japan decided to use that name for it and introduced the dogi and belt system from Judo. So by definition what was practiced before those times in Okinawa was "Te" and not "Karate".
The art of Karate (previously called Te) isn't indigenous to Japan but that's where the term "Karate" and the Japanese formalities were added to it. They do have their own language in Okinawa indeed and terms like Makiwara come from that language but in Okinawa they actually use a lot of Japanese terms for the techniques, stances, and even some of the weapons like the bo and the kama etc.
Shit posting aside - I genuinely don't think there is enough difference between point style karate and taekwondo to consider them different martial arts - I was talking to @AshiharaFan about this and he seemed to agree. I'd say there's more difference between kyokushin karate and shotokan than there is between shotokan and taekwondo.
I've been thinking about this a lot because I've been doing a lot of research into the Muay Thai family of martial arts, including Muay Lao, Tomoi Lethwei etc. - I've been talking to the number 1 expert on it as well, a guy who's trained in all of them - and he has essentially said that it's all just Muay Thai under different name.
I think aside from things like form - the difference to me is how it changes the athlete as a fighter.
I don't think there is a lot of difference between a shotokan and taekwondo fighter, or a lethwei and muay thai fighter save for a few techniques here and there - when it comes to form.
But I think BJJ and Judo is more distance than Judo and Sambo - where sambo is essentially Judo with the old banned moves back in legally, and less restriction on body locks - but as athletes they're not as different as BJJ and Judo - where the focus on ground game means that BJJ fighters develop a very different technical skill set and no where near the level of explosive athleticism as judo.
I know this thread isn't about Judo, but that's just my thoughts on whether X = Y
Personally while TKD definitely shares a root with Shotokan imo they are different arts. But I wouldn’t complain if someone mentioned how similar they are - they share similarities.
I’m looking specifically at the syllabus/ethos of both styles. That’s where I feel they differ. Some techniques are the same but most of the forms/kata are different to Karate, as well as physical requirements, how each style is trained & structured - how some techniques aren’t shared like 360 kick for example. On top of that the ethos/culture of both styles significantly differ.
ITF is closer to Shotokan than WTF - but even then I feel there are enough differences that you can classify them as separate arts.
On the other hand - Kyokushin is closer imho to Shotokan than TKD.
The ethos of Kyokushin is pretty identical to Japanese Karate. Add to that the syllabus is also identical to most of Karate - it shares the same kata/forms as goju/Shotokan, the same techniques and similar training structure.
Also add to that in TKD you’re wearing the dobok while in Kyokushin you’re wearing the gi.
The only difference between Shotokan & Kyokushin really is the sparring/competition formats (this is where TKD is closer to Shotokan).
I mean if you watch Kyokushin clicker tournaments and didn’t know that those were Kyokushin point fighters you’d think they might be Shotokan or a similar derived style.
That’s really imo what makes Shotokan & Kyokushin very different at least when both are applied. But even with this difference they still share more similarities with another than TKD does with Shotokan.
I had no idea Kyokushin had point fighting tournaments! I just found a few vids on YT and I can't really agree with you - it doesn't look like Shotokan very much. The footwork is completely different and the gratuitous amount of lead hand tetsui and uraken was just... weird.I mean if you watch Kyokushin clicker tournaments and didn’t know that those were Kyokushin point fighters you’d think they might be Shotokan or a similar derived style.
You know who seriously looks like he does Karate point fighting for a living (even though he never did)?
Odd, isn't it?
I've had way too many people lately to try to tell me that McGregor knows karate... he doesn't.
Jack Slack, who to be honest probably knows more about Conor McGregor than person who doesn't know him, said in preparation for his book, doing all the digging and research he could - that Conor's karate credentials are the same as his boxing - that it's so vague and the dates change, to the point where it seems to me (AndyMaBobs) that it's quite likely that those boxing credentials just didn't exist.
That and there has been nothing to indicate he's ever actually trained karate, he just swaggers around like he does.
He was/is training partners with gunnar nelson who is a bb in japanese goju ryu.I've had way too many people lately to try to tell me that McGregor knows karate... he doesn't.
Jack Slack, who to be honest probably knows more about Conor McGregor than person who doesn't know him, said in preparation for his book, doing all the digging and research he could - that Conor's karate credentials are the same as his boxing - that it's so vague and the dates change, to the point where it seems to me (AndyMaBobs) that it's quite likely that those boxing credentials just didn't exist.
That and there has been nothing to indicate he's ever actually trained karate, he just swaggers around like he does.
I think you are thinking of the below clip:I believe I've seen some stuff where Conor was training karate with someone. I know for a fact that he's spent time training TKD. I remember that very clearly.