Khabib vs Maia - Who wins the grappling?

[Franc Mittelo]

You just be easily impressed.

Khabib is 10-0 in the UFC. Based on my algorithm with GSP as the baseline for GOAT contention, Khabib is an upper-tier great fighter, and he is 3 consecutive wins away from entering GOAT contention (in my opinion).

So, I obviously have a high standard for quality. I am always challenging people saying Fedor, BJ Penn, TRT Vitor and many other fighters with questionable records are in GOAT contention.

 

[gono btw]

Khabib is 10-0 in the UFC. Based on my algorithm with GSP as the baseline for GOAT contention, Khabib is an upper-tier great fighter, and he is 3 consecutive wins away from entering GOAT contention (in my opinion).

So, I obviously have a high standard for quality. I am always challenging people saying Fedor, BJ Penn, TRT Vitor and many other fighters with questionable records are in GOAT contention.

"3 consecutive wins away from entering GOAT contention"

I fail to see which 3 fights would lead him to such a status.

 

[Xslum]

wrestling is the key to bjj so khabib takes it.

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Straight grappling Maia eats his ass.

Go on...

 

[Franc Mittelo]

If Khabib can keep his body away from Maia like usman did with a front headlock and then stand up, then sure, or if he can stuff all Maia's take downs like T-Wood, then sure, but if you think Khabib is safe in Maia's guard you are gravely mistaken. NOBODY is safe in Demian Maia's guard.

Khabib has learned that guard is an almost useless position if your intention is to smash the opponent. I don't think Khabib looks to be in the opponent's guard. He looks for side-control or a position where he has the opponent pinned against the cage, while he controls one wrist. It is very hard for the fighter pinned against the cage while one of his wrists is being controlled to launch any significant offense.

He first needs to get out of that position and create more space. The more he tries to do this, the more smashings he will get from Khabib. Thus, Khabib creates a situation where he allows the opponent to believe that he is improving his position, while Khabib smashes him and readjusts to the new position. This creates a cycle of Khabib smashing the opponent while the opponent tries to avoid the smashing and also get into a better defensive position.

So, Khabib remains in perpetual control of the situation, where he can see a submission (that will be difficult to complete) coming from a mile away. That is why Khabib smashes with complete disregard of the opponent's skills, when he obtains that position (opponent pinned against the cage while one of his wrists is neutralized).

Other grapplers are too concerned with getting to a position where they are virtually sure they can't be submitted or reversed, so they neglect to smash the opponent when he is very vulnerable to the GnP. This stalling tactic is the kind of grappling I absolutely hate. It is so beta. That lay-n-pray bullshit.

 

[Franc Mittelo]

Its not weak evidence. Every single person that fights Maia, wrestler or not, avoids the ground like the plague. How much evidence do you need?

I am talking about the Frank Mir video being weak evidence, because Frank Mir is talking about his experience in pure BJJ against Maia. Frank doesn't provide any comparison between grappling Maia versus grappling Khabib. That is why it is weak evidence. It shows us one point (Maia) but there is no connection between that one point (Maia) to another point (Khabib) and one common point (Frank Mir).

Simply put, that video doesn't demonstrate a triangle between (1) Frank Mir (2) Demian Maia and (3) Khabib Nurmagomedov. Therefore, Frank Mir's experience of grappling with Maia in a pure BJJ spar doesn't tell us much about a hypothetical MMA fight between Maia vs Nurmagomedov.

 

[Franc Mittelo]

"3 consecutive wins away from entering GOAT contention"

I fail to see which 3 fights would lead him to such a status.

Any 3 fights will do. As long as he wins his next 3 fights, then he qualifies as a GOAT contender based on my algorithm. This is my opinion, and since I have come to the conclusion that even MMA experts don't know better than me, I think my opinion is just as valid as anybody's.

 

[PurpleAki]

Kebab smash him.

 

[MusterX]

Khabib has learned that guard is an almost useless position if your intention is to smash the opponent. I don't think Khabib looks to be in the opponent's guard. He looks for side-control or a position where he has the opponent pinned against the cage, while he controls one wrist. It is very hard for the fighter pinned against the cage while one of his wrists is being controlled to launch any significant offense.

He first needs to get out of that position and create more space. The more he tries to do this, the more smashings he will get from Khabib. Thus, Khabib creates a situation where he allows the opponent to believe that he is improving his position, while Khabib smashes him and readjusts to the new position. This creates a cycle of Khabib smashing the opponent while the opponent tries to avoid the smashing and also get into a better defensive position.

So, Khabib remains in perpetual control of the situation, where he can see a submission (that will be difficult to complete) coming from a mile away. That is why Khabib smashes with complete disregard of the opponent's skills, when he obtains that position (opponent pinned against the cage while one of his wrists is neutralized).

Other grapplers are too concerned with getting to a position where they are virtually sure they can't be submitted or reversed, so they neglect to smash the opponent when he is very vulnerable to the GnP. This stalling tactic is the kind of grappling I absolutely hate. It is so beta. That lay-n-pray bullshit.

True enough concerning Khabib's style of grappling but there is more to it. Of course Khabib wants to get to half guard, side control, or full mount, all better positions than full guard. What I meant was that Khabib's opponents will try to get it to full guard. Khabib has had the fortune though of fighting some guys with a shit ground game, some of them with virtually no ground game at all, like Edson Barboza and Michael Johnson to name two.

I'm not trying to undercut Khabib's skills but he fights in a division that is not wrestler heavy. If he was at WW do you really think he's going to maul Tyron Woodley, Colby Covington, or Kamaru Usman? I'm sorry, I don't think so. Khabib had trouble hitting take downs on Al Iaquinta, Usman is 100 times more athletic than Iaquinta.

 

[MusterX]

Go on...

 

[The Merchant]

I have no idea. Someone posted Askren rolling with shields, here's marcelo.

 

[gono btw]

Any 3 fights will do. As long as he wins his next 3 fights, then he qualifies as a GOAT contender based on my algorithm. This is my opinion, and since I have come to the conclusion that even MMA experts don't know better than me, I think my opinion is just as valid as anybody's.

Technically...somewhere... u have to beat some potential HOFers...

 

[MusterX]

I have no idea. Someone posted Askren rolling with shields, here's marcelo.

Starting at :18 and running to :33, that's sick when Askren is on top and Marcelo grabs his neck, Askren does the right thing and move over to side control to neutralize Marcelos choke, just as its taught, and then Marcelo flips him over and tightens the choke.

That is insane level BJJ.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

maia losses via being 40.... his best days are way behind him

 

[The Merchant]

Starting at :18 and running to :33, that's sick when Askren is on top and Marcelo grabs his neck, Askren does the right thing and move over to side control to neutralize Marcelos choke, just as its taught, and then Marcelo flips him over and tightens the choke.

That is insane level BJJ.

Check the sequence beginning at 6:35

 

[Franc Mittelo]

Technically...somewhere... u have to beat some potential HOFers...

You could say that. However, I have decided to move away from that way of thinking. This is why I only consider UFC records, because it allows me to say that "Fighter A and Fighter B both fought opponents from the same talent pool" and that adjusts for a lot subjective interpretation of the data.

If you fight in the LW division of the UFC, then you are fighting in the same pool as your competitors, so I can say with a higher degree of confidence that if you have a better record than your competitors, then you are better than them.

Using that hall of fame argument seems weak to me, because it is based on hyped-nostalgia. For example BJ Penn is a HOFmer, but his record doesn't reflect this. He has the record of an average fighter.

Also, Kelvin Gastelum is beating a lot of HOFmers who are on their way out, so if we are just going by brand-recognition, we are going to downplay the context of Gastelum's recent wins. Another example, Jon Jones went through a gauntlet of HOFmers, but when you look at those HOFmers, they have atrocious UFC records.

It gets too confusing and subjective. I have decided I will look at it this way:
1) Your dominance must have occurred after 2009/2010 and inside a UFC cage under variations of the MMA unified rules. Why after 2009/2010? Because that is when the sport of MMA was standardized, and now we know MMA is fundamentally cage fighting using variations of the Unified rules. So, I don't even consider ring MMA with other rules as the same sport as the MMA we have today. This is a logical stance.

If you are a fighter from a previous era of MMA or an in-betweener like GSP, then your dominance must have carried past 2009/2010 and inside a UFC cage under variations of the MMA unified rules.

2) If you meet the basic requirement of UFC fighter after 2009/2010, then you must have at least 13 consecutive wins in the UFC (I don't care who you fought). Why 13 wins? Because that is GSP's current longest winning streak and he is the standard. Why is GSP the standard? Because he is the least controversial of all GOAT contenders. So, whatever he did, is the baseline for me. Consequently, if GSP continues to fight and win, that bar will be raised higher and higher.

I give fighters extra points if those consecutive wins were title fights. This is how I separate the GOATs from the GOATs. So, the GOAT of all GOATs will have 13 consecutive title fight wins.

I apply this algorithm to all fighters. So, how I feel about a certain fighter doesn't matter. I don't care if you molested little babies, if you meet this criteria, I will defend your GOAT status against anybody who dares to challenge it.

 

[gono btw]

You could say that. However, I have decided to move away from that way of thinking. This is why I only consider UFC records, because it allows me to say that "Fighter A and Fighter B both fought opponents from the same talent pool" and that adjusts for a lot subjective interpretation of the data.

If you fight in the LW division of the UFC, then you are fighting in the same pool as your competitors, so I can say with a higher degree of confidence that if you have a better record than your competitors, then you are better than them.

Using that hall of fame argument seems weak to me, because it is based on hyped-nostalgia. For example BJ Penn is a HOFmer, but his record doesn't reflect this. He has the record of an average fighter.

Also, Kelvin Gastelum is beating a lot of HOFmers who are on their way out, so if we are just going by brand-recognition, we are going to downplay the context of Gastelum's recent wins. Another example, Jon Jones went through a gauntlet of HOFmers, but when you look at those HOFmers, they have atrocious UFC records.

It gets too confusing and subjective. I have decided I will look at it this way:
1) Your dominance must have occurred after 2009/2010 and inside a UFC cage under variations of the MMA unified rules. Why after 2009/2010? Because that is when the sport of MMA was standardized, and now we know MMA is fundamentally cage fighting using variations of the Unified rules. So, I don't even consider ring MMA with other rules as the same sport as the MMA we have today. This is a logical stance.

If you are a fighter from a previous era of MMA or an in-betweener like GSP, then your dominance must have carried past 2009/2010 and inside a UFC cage under variations of the MMA unified rules.

2) If you meet the basic requirement of UFC fighter after 2009/2010, then you must have at least 13 consecutive wins in the UFC (I don't care who you fought). Why 13 wins? Because that is GSP's current longest winning streak and he is the standard. Why is GSP the standard? Because he is the least controversial of all GOAT contenders. So, whatever he did, is the baseline for me. Consequently, if GSP continues to fight and win, that bar will be raised higher and higher.

I give fighters extra points if those consecutive wins were title fights. This is how I separate the GOATs from the GOATs. So, the GOAT of all GOATs will have 13 consecutive title fight wins.

I apply this algorithm to all fighters. So, how I feel about a certain fighter doesn't matter. I don't care if you molested little babies, if you meet this criteria, I will defend your GOAT status against anybody who dares to challenge it.

It´s all about criterias.

When u make such a list, u do not compare Fighter X with Fighter Y,
like how the former would fare with the latter in the cage/ring.

What u do compare is:

1/ The way they dominated the game.

2/ The quality of their opponents.

3/ The innovations they brought to the game.

4/ How many HOFers in the resumé.

5/ Quality wins AND quality losses (= put wins & losses INTO CONTEXT)

6/ Ali´s D2BG (Dared 2 Be Great?)... against heavier opponents.

Obs: this is NOT a head-2-head contest btw 2 fighters from different eras

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Could go either way but if Khabib initiates the TD and stays out of Maia's guard then he can win. It'd be rough but Khabib could pull it off.

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

Maia would outwrestle Khabib. The size difference between them is enormous.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Khabib is the wrestler though, he'll be maintaining top position as Maia works on his back. So the size advantage wouldn't be as useful as many would think

Maia would sweep him. There's a reason Colby and Usman avoided the ground.

Khabib failed to take down Tibau.