Social Roseanne tweets outrageously racist comment about former Obama staffer Valerie Jarrett

[dontsnitch]

allow me to preemptively say that NO, insulting a person’s politics or behavior is NOT the equivalent of insulting someone’s race. And only a racist fuck would consider the two to be so.

By equivalent, I'm assuming you mean it's worse to attack someone's race.

First of all, why would it be racist to disagree with this? I would find it much more offensive if you insulted my behavior, because you're insulting my decision making. If you insult my race it's not personal, you're just an ass hat. But even if you disagree, why would that be racist?

This topic makes everyone hysterical.

 

[TheGreatA]

And Ashkenazi Jews basically look like white Gentiles most of the time, but they still get insulted by ethnic slurs against them. Probably because of the history of oppression, which is shared with blacks. It's easy for white guys not to take it seriously, because it's never been seriously used against them. This isn't being triggered by some microaggression. When white people compare blacks to monkeys as an insult, they know exactly what they're doing. Roseanne played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. She seems to be a cunt in many ways and she's had plenty of success anyway. Fuck it.

It's not that white people haven't been insulted, it's just that have not been brought up in a way that would lead to them feeling insulted, based on racial grounds. Gradually, they've been fragmented and individualized, against identifying themselves with collective ethnic groups. It's not long ago when "whites" in America were recognized as a large variety of differing collectives with different, often conflicting interests, rather than as a monolithic group.

Italians, Irish, French, etc. have all been called names due to their ethnic background. But over time, they've chosen not to give a shit about it. Yes, an Italian will still get pissed off about being called names, but they're more likely to feel that insult in an individual sense rather than a collective sense.

If biracial people with a small amount of African heritage, want to keep fighting those mud-slinging racial battles, then by all means, keep doing it. But they'll be fighting those battles forever. You'll never be able to prevent people from insulting you by acting hurt, because hurting somebody is the precise reason why people insult others in the first place.

The only true way to delegitimize an insult, is to render it irrelevant. That's what the American whites have done. They don't care about being called rednecks, hillbillies, whatever. Some even choose to embrace that sarcastically.

 

[Islam Imamate]

And Ashkenazi Jews basically look like white Gentiles most of the time, but they still get insulted by ethnic slurs against them. Probably because of the history of oppression, which is shared with blacks. It's easy for white guys not to take it seriously, because it's never been seriously used against them. This isn't being triggered by some microaggression. When white people compare blacks to monkeys as an insult, they know exactly what they're doing. Roseanne played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. She seems to be a cunt in many ways and she's had plenty of success anyway. Fuck it.

Well said. When it comes to group identity sometimes its more about how others see you and where you fit than how you see yourself.

That said, I don't think comparing blacks to apes is necessarily always racist in intent. Joe Rogan has compared Brock Lesnar to a gorilla because of how beefy and powerful he is, for the same reason you might think of comparing Bob Sapp or Kevin Randleman(PBUH) to a gorilla. But at the same time if you're in America you should be aware of the unique history of that kind of comparison and understand that people probably won't give you the benefit of the doubt if you make that kind of comparison and in the end you just shouldn't make it if only to avoid the headache it can cause.

I'm embarrassed to say I've been on the wrong side of that kind of thing. I made some jokes more than once(about Jews IIRC) that have been taken the wrong way and not how I intended them. In one case I was actually trying to comment on Antisemitism in society but it got taken the exact opposite way, as me being antisemitic. And that's my fault, the people I was with weren't close friends so I can't assume they know where I was coming from and those kinds of statements should just be avoided for the most part.

Just a bad habit of mine since I have a close friend whom I will freely talk with about all sorts of controversial subjects. Because we've known each other for so long and talked about these things extensively for years we usually know where the other is coming from and give each other the benefit of the doubt. When there is ambiguity we can honestly elaborate with one another in a way I really can't with most people.

Plus the WR gets pretty heated at times and goes into some topics most would avoid in polite conversation. Some posters here see me as a SJW leftist type but among some of my peers I'm seen as in the MAGA camp and I think that's partly from spending so much(really too much) time here.

 

[VivaRevolution]

That argument is bullshit.

Roseanne wasn’t fired just because she tweeted something the network didn’t agree with. She was fired because the tweet was objectively RACIST.

All those screencaped tweets contain insults directed at Trump, insulting his intelligence, competence, personal beliefs and moral character. As far as I can tell, not a single one attacks him because of his race, religion or ethnicity.

And before anyone tries to make the argument, allow me to preemptively say that NO, insulting a person’s politics or behavior is NOT the equivalent of insulting someone’s race. And only a racist fuck would consider the two to be so.

This argument seems completely dependent on ignoring the Umpa Lumpa's as a race.

 

[SMillard]

Didn't know you were in the military. Utmost respect

Seriously, I appreciate that but please don't put everyone that was or is in the military up on a pedestal, some of us are assholes, some are POGs (people other than grunts) full disclosure I was a "combat communicator" which basically means I either carried the radio or ran the telephone land lines, some do bad things (think that asshole that shot up the people in Texas a few months ago, dude was ex-air force).

 

[7437]

You sound slow. Show me how he made it about himself. Or are you just someone who talks major fucking shit.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Well said. When it comes to group identity sometimes its more about how others see you and where you fit than how you see yourself.

That said, I don't think comparing blacks to apes is necessarily always racist in intent. Joe Rogan has compared Brock Lesnar to a gorilla because of how beefy and powerful he is, for the same reason you might think of comparing Bob Sapp or Kevin Randleman(PBUH) to a gorilla. But at the same time if you're in America you should be aware of the unique history of that kind of comparison and understand that people probably won't give you the benefit of the doubt if you make that kind of comparison and in the end you just shouldn't make it if only to avoid the headache it can cause.

I'm embarrassed to say I've been on the wrong side of that kind of thing. I made some jokes more than once(about Jews IIRC) that have been taken the wrong way and not how I intended them. In one case I was actually trying to comment on Antisemitism in society but it got taken the exact opposite way, as me being antisemitic. And that's my fault, the people I was with weren't close friends so I can't assume they know where I was coming from and those kinds of statements should just be avoided for the most part.

Just a bad habit of mine since I have a close friend whom I will freely talk with about all sorts of controversial subjects. Because we've known each other for so long and talked about these things extensively for years we usually know where the other is coming from and give each other the benefit of the doubt. When there is ambiguity we can honestly elaborate with one another in a way I really can't with most people.

Plus the WR gets pretty heated at times and goes into some topics most would avoid in polite conversation. Some posters here see me as a SJW leftist type but among some of my peers I'm seen as in the MAGA camp and I think that's partly from spending so much(really too much) time here.

Thanks.

That's why I specified as an insult, because I do believe there have been comparisons made at times which were innocuous and not malicious, although people should probably avoid them in order to avoid confusion and inadvertent offense. People should try to gauge intent and be fair and not be indignant or trying to play the gotcha game. I'm about the furthest thing from an SJW, but at the same time, I always try to acknowledge reality whether it's inconvenient for the left or right or even both.

 

[7437]

The Ambien thing is the only reason I would give her a pass if true. About 10 years ago I took one, slept 10 hours, and had a totally normal.morning routine with my family. Wife and I left for work in separate cars with her behind me. About 1/4 mile from my house I side swiped the forklift on the back of brick truck (he kept driving) and pulled over. Wife stopped so I said I'd go home and call the insurance company. Thankfully she agreed to follow me.home because I got lost on a road I drive every day. I don't actually remember any of this. Too scared to ever take an Ambien again.

I guess I was technically DUI?

the maker has specifically come out to say racism is not a side effect of ambien.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...bien-racism-tweet-side-effect-response-sanofi

 

[Hollywood Jack]

It's not that white people haven't been insulted, it's just that have not been brought up in a way that would lead to them feeling insulted, based on racial grounds. Gradually, they've been fragmented and individualized, against identifying themselves with collective ethnic groups. It's not long ago when "whites" in America were recognized as a large variety of differing collectives with different, often conflicting interests, rather than as a monolithic group.

Italians, Irish, French, etc. have all been called names due to their ethnic background. But over time, they've chosen not to give a shit about it. Yes, an Italian will still get pissed off about being called names, but they're more likely to feel that insult in an individual sense rather than a collective sense.

If biracial people with a small amount of African heritage, want to keep fighting those mud-slinging racial battles, then by all means, keep doing it. But they'll be fighting those battles forever. You'll never be able to prevent people from insulting you by acting hurt, because hurting somebody is the precise reason why people insult others in the first place.

The only true way to delegitimize an insult, is to render it irrelevant. That's what the American whites have done. They don't care about being called rednecks, hillbillies, whatever. Some even choose to embrace that sarcastically.

What you're talking about is fine in theory, but in practice it will never work because of the shared experience and history of oppression and how that's formed group identity. What you're asking of blacks would actually be more reasonable and easy and understandable to ask of European Jews, who can largely blend into the general majority-white population. Yet even they don't want to do that, and I don't blame them.

Blacks will never be seen that way and the "I don't see color" trope while originally said with good intentions (more frequently used by charlatans these days), is unfortunately unrealistic, often disingenuous, bullshit. I'm afraid you and I don't, and won't, see eye-to-eye on this, so fair enough. I still think we agree on a lot of stuff, just not this. No hard feelings.

 

[HereticBD]

I think if you're mad at that, you might have some issues.

Why is that necessarily making it about himself, or even a bad statement? Because they're accomplishments that happened under his watch? Who cares? He's talking about the state of the nation, and how the soldiers would be proud that their sacrifice was not in vain. The horror!

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Of the Mashhad Bowmans?

Her dad was a doctor who was in a program that sent American doctors to work in developing countries, and he lived briefly in Iran (and she was born there as a result), but she's American.

I just remembered reading somewhere that she was Iranian.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Thanks.

That's why I specified as an insult, because I do believe there have been comparisons made at times which were innocuous and not malicious, although people should probably avoid them in order to avoid confusion and inadvertent offense. People should try to gauge intent and be fair and not be indignant or trying to play the gotcha game. I'm about the furthest thing from an SJW, but at the same time, I always try to acknowledge reality whether it's inconvenient for the left or right or even both.

Ideally we should try to give each other the benefit of the doubt but in Roseanne's case I'll concede that @HomerThompson and @Overpressure pointing to some of her other tweets as evidence of ill intent behind the joke is fair.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

If you'd read the thread you'd hopefully had learned that comparing someone to an ape based solely on race and skin color (as in what Roseanne did) and the things you posted are not equal. Are these Bush memes based on his skin color and race (or some other discriminatory protected characteristic)m

Ah what the he'll am I kidding for, I know you won't understand that.

A- I have no idea if what Rosanne did was based solely on VJ's skin or race - this is going around facebook (although JVS said she isn't Iranian):

B- A lot of Americans just figured out that Jarrett is AA.

C- So what you're really saying is that it's only ok to compare whites to monkeys? Sometimes you guys don't even make sense - it's like the AA's that say the N word in every other lyric and then boo when the white girl on stage says it singing along.

D- Don't take anything I've said as a defense for Barr.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Ideally we should try to give each other the benefit of the doubt but in Roseanne's case I'll concede that @HomerThompson and @Overpressure pointing to some of her other tweets as evidence of ill intent behind the joke is fair.

I think she's always been a little off, historically susceptible to far-left fallacies and conspiracies and now to far-right fallacies and conspiracies. I remember hearing about how she would treat crew members like absolute shit when Roseanne was in its heyday. She's battled mental-health issues for much of her life since she apparently had an auto accident as a young woman, and at one point she was in a mental institution for over a year.

 

[Jack V Savage]

A- I have no idea if what Rosanne did was based solely on VJ's skin or race - this is going around facebook (although JVS said she isn't Iranian):

She's not Iranian. Jesus. Do some research. Her dad was a doctor and worked in Iran as part of a program--I posted the info already. Google it if you don't believe me.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

A- I have no idea if what Rosanne did was based solely on VJ's skin or race - this is going around facebook (although JVS said she isn't Iranian):

B- A lot of Americans just figured out that Jarrett is AA.

C- So what you're really saying is that it's only ok to compare whites to monkeys? Sometimes you guys don't even make sense - it's like the AA's that say the N word in every other lyric and then boo when the white girl on stage says it singing along.

D- Don't take anything I've said as a defense for Barr.

Idiots are running with ridiculous conspiracy theories because she was born in Iran at a time when they were a US-friendly secular regime. Even to this day, most ethnic Persians are secular/moderate people. Unfortunately, the Islamists won out during the 1979 revolution and they force women to wear the hijab and all that crap. It's incredibly inaccurate and distasteful either way, but especially since she is African American and they've been slandered with such comparisons for so long.

Note: This isn't aimed at you personally, just at the idiots who spread this garbage.

 

[S-dot]

A- I have no idea if what Rosanne did was based solely on VJ's skin or race - this is going around facebook (although JVS said she isn't Iranian):

B- A lot of Americans just figured out that Jarrett is AA.

C- So what you're really saying is that it's only ok to compare whites to monkeys? Sometimes you guys don't even make sense - it's like the AA's that say the N word in every other lyric and then boo when the white girl on stage says it singing along.

D- Don't take anything I've said as a defense for Barr.

This is the conversation I want to have. What is and is not acceptable and why? What animals can be compared to individuals of what races? She doesn’t look like a monkey but she does resemble characters from the planet of the apes. Roseanne may have had I’ll intent behind her tweet but what if I have nothing but love for all people regardless of race but observe that someone looks like someone/something else?

 

[Hollywood Jack]

She's not Iranian. Jesus. Do some research. Her dad was a doctor and worked in Iran as part of a program--I posted the info already. Google it if you don't believe me.

It's sad how stupid and ignorant people are. They have no clue that Iran was a pro-American secular regime at the time. They can't tell the difference between Iraq and Iran. Some yahoo literally featured that sentiment in a popular country song. Sad!

 

[GtehMVP]

Just pulling up random pics of Valerie from the interwebs, with the first pic from her facebook profile. Would anyone think she's black from these? She look like a mix of Persian/Asian?

It's still a moronic tweet to post, but If Rosanne is saying she didn't think she was black, I can see why and believe her. Why was she posting anything about her anyways? Rosanne shouldn't be mocking anyone's appearance lol.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Just pulling up random pics of Valerie from the interwebs, with the first pic from her facebook profile. Would anyone think she's black from these? She look like a mix of Persian/Asian?

It's still a moronic tweet to post, but If Rosanne is saying she didn't think she was black, I can see why and believe her. Why was she posting anything about her anyways? Rosanne shouldn't be mocking anyone's appearance lol.

Roseanne isn't even using that as a defense, just some Trump fans trying to obfuscate the issue. It's widely known that VJ is black, whether some uninformed ignoramuses are aware of that or not. Roseanne's met her, she knew the score. She's made similar comments about black female political figures before, like saying Susan Rice "is a man with big swinging ape balls". Just a coincidence I'm sure that she keeps comparing blacks to apes.