Why do BJJ instructors commonly downplay Strength and Conditioning?

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If skill was the only thing that mattered then 50+ year old multiple degree black belts would be tapping 30 year old black belts, but that simply is not the case. Marcelo is famous for stating that all of his training is sport specific, but only fought MMA once. There are some people who have evolved, but how come the vast majority of BJJ schools will tell you that BJJ is all you need and commonly downplay the benefits of Strength and Conditioning? A Jon Jones could beat 99% of all BJJ practitioners in a real self defense situation and he is a white belt.
 
Thought behind it is that there shouldn't be anything left in the tank and if there is you just didnt train hard enough (or can just train more). Rafa also subscribes to this school of thought now - even though he was big on S&C during his earlier competitive years.
 
Thought behind it is that there shouldn't be anything left in the tank and if there is you just didnt train hard enough (or can just train more). Rafa also subscribes to this school of thought now - even though he was big on S&C during his earlier competitive years.

Well strength and conditioning literally makes your capacity better, which would lead to better performances.
 
Besides Marcelo who says HE doesn't do strengrh and conditioning who says S&C isn't important?
 
Besides Marcelo who says HE doesn't do strengrh and conditioning who says S&C isn't important?

My past 3 BJJ instructors. Most of my classmates as well.

This is a pretty common theme in schools. Its also a way of selling their philosophy, rather then stating the obvious science.

It goes against the whole, "The more skilled man will win, size doesn't matter when you know BJJ YAY HELIO."
 
Besides Marcelo who says HE doesn't do strengrh and conditioning who says S&C isn't important?

Rafa - first thing that is discussed in this interview.


Well strength and conditioning literally makes your capacity better, which would lead to better performances.

Im not against S&C myself, but I think there's a fine line between adding to your capacity and it ultimately being detrimental. The reason Marcelo doesn't do S&C in particular is that he doesn't want to take away from his time on the mats. His argument is that you can kill two birds with one stone. If you do supplemental training, can you go as hard and will you be as sharp on the mats? Will it interfere with your ability to apply and/or learn the techniques? Will it affect your motivation to even get to class?

I agree that it can be beneficial and that there's a science behind it, but I don't think there are many out there equipped to apply a program properly themselves.

I think what most people think when they think S&C is some sort of version of 5/3/1 and running 3mi/3x a week. Either that or its the prowler/battles ropes without even knowing why they're doing it and what systems they're training.
 
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A Jon Jones could beat 99% of all BJJ practitioners in a real self defense situation and he is a white belt.

Someone needs to tell that 1% to go kick his ass for a fat check.

That's not conditioning that's genetics plus skill.

While not a BJJ guy he's certainly an expert grappler.
 
If skill was the only thing that mattered then 50+ year old multiple degree black belts would be tapping 30 year old black belts, but that simply is not the case. Marcelo is famous for stating that all of his training is sport specific, but only fought MMA once. There are some people who have evolved, but how come the vast majority of BJJ schools will tell you that BJJ is all you need and commonly downplay the benefits of Strength and Conditioning? A Jon Jones could beat 99% of all BJJ practitioners in a real self defense situation and he is a white belt.

Of the schools I've been to, most of the people are "casuals" - they don't even compete. I was surprised by the number of people I encountered who actually substituted BJJ for traditional S&C. Most of these people just don't like doing it. To be honest, I'm not even sure extra S&C would even make the difference for these people.

Technique deficiencies are often far larger concerns towards grappling success and often lead quicker results. If I drilled nothing but the leg drag for an entire week I would be demonstrably better at the leg drag. Strength gains take much longer to build in comparison. At the higher levels, it matters.

Personally, I've noticed that many BJJ instructors are not small people. My first instructor was 130lbs. Everyone else I've met was 170lbs+. They already have a prerequisite amount of strength/muscle. I'm 160lbs and I feel like if I don't lift my body will not be able to structurally support people's weight.

Finally, its5025 summed it up best - marketing. People don't like to feel vulnerable and they like to feel that their grappling will translate into readiness for some kind of physical altercation. These people also don't like to be punched in the face or risk undue injury, so we start the sport on the ground where someones size and strength can be most neutralized if you have superior position

We had a freak athlete in our class for a few weeks - heavily muscled and extremely athletic. I tried to do the typical X-guard get up sweep but this guy could do the splits past 180 degrees and I couldn't get up. He also pulled my instructor's arm (yes pulled, not "set up") into an armbar and tapped him out. It blew my mind. If you tell a guy like this not to do S&C or to not use strength when rolling, it suspends the illusion that sheer attributes combined with a small amount of technique can overcome a lot of technique.

To be fair though, I have always believed technique to be King. Period. Generally I even believe muscular and cardiovascular fatigue to be a symptom of relatively inferior technique. This is what I tell myself because it makes me feel better and because it's something I can work on. I can work on S&C too and I do. But I have a genetic potential as to how strong I can be. Technique can theoretically be improved infinitely.

You don't see old ass people beating young people. But you do see really good old people teaching younger people how to get technical faster. Nicky Ryan is a prime example. He's getting his man muscles now, but when he first started out he was running thru grown ass man as a prepubescent boy.
 
My past 3 BJJ instructors. Most of my classmates as well.

This is a pretty common theme in schools. Its also a way of selling their philosophy, rather then stating the obvious science.

It goes against the whole, "The more skilled man will win, size doesn't matter when you know BJJ YAY HELIO."

How long have you been training? Of course is bullshit, strength and conditioning matters a lot, specially when competing at high level... When all things are equal, normally the best trained person will win... now if that’s a big skills disparity, no matter how many push ups you can do, you are getting fucked over by a better grappler
 
Our head instructor stresses that S&C for those who compete, every other instructor I've met is the same.
 
How long have you been training? Of course is bullshit, strength and conditioning matters a lot, specially when competing at high level... When all things are equal, normally the best trained person will win... now if that’s a big skills disparity, no matter how many push ups you can do, you are getting fucked over by a better grappler

Intermittently since I was 13. I am now 23. Mainly rolled in Nogi environments.

I agree with that, skill is always the biggest priority, but even Bruce Lee said that martial artists didn't spend enough time on making their body stronger.

I guess it depends if you are competing or not, you can probably get away with less Strength and Conditioning if you are competing in a pure grappling match sure, but you better be doing lots of strength and conditioning if training for a MMA fight.
 
To get more customers.

To cover insecurities over athletic performance.

To excuse not having to do anything less fun than what they normally like doing but they don't want to say they don't do it because it's less fun so they lie to themselves that it's actually not worth anything to start with.

To reify the instinctual antipathy blue tribesmen (the expression of which in fighting circles so oft seen as 'martial arts geek' types) have against closely related fellows, such as red tribesmen (the expression of which in fighting circles so oft seen as 'combat sport jock' types), and the attendant desire of the former to undermine their nearest neighbors in terms of social status by whatever means most convenient.
 
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To get more customers.

To cover insecurities over athletic performance.

To excuse not having to do anything less fun than what they normally like doing but they don't want to say they don't do it because it's less fun so they try to lie to themselves that it's actually not worth anything to start with.

To reify the instinctual antipathy blue tribesmen (the expression of which in fighting circles so oft seen as 'martial arts geek' types) have against closely related fellows, such as red tribesmen (the expression of which in fighting circles so oft seen as 'combat sport jock' types), and the attendant desire of the former to undermine their nearest neighbors in terms of social status by whatever means most convenient.

Holy shit. Great Response
 
Intermittently since I was 13. I am now 23. Mainly rolled in Nogi environments.

I agree with that, skill is always the biggest priority, but even Bruce Lee said that martial artists didn't spend enough time on making their body stronger.

I guess it depends if you are competing or not, you can probably get away with less Strength and Conditioning if you are competing in a pure grappling match sure, but you better be doing lots of strength and conditioning if training for a MMA fight.

If you are doing Mma, you must do S&C
 
I've never had an instructor who dismissed the importance of conditioning. That idea isn't common with any of the guys I've trained with.

That being said, BJJ itself is a pretty effective form of S&C. I can actually cover most elements of S&C with BJJ stuff if I want to. It's only max strength stuff that I think can't be done on the mat. That part requires the weight room.

Other than that, you can cover overall cardiac capacity, cardiac power, localized muscular endurance, and explosive power pretty well with BJJ if you set it up right.

I still do stuff outside of BJJ to help. But the main reasons are 1) it gives me a break mentally and 2) I wouldn't have enough willing partners to cover it all. Theoretically though I could cover quite a bit of S&C with BJJ alone if I really made the effort.
 
Telling someone who is most likely paying $100+ a month that you can't do everything they need to be the best, isn't the best sales tactic. Especially when a lot of gyms market BJJ as fitness.
 
Lots of bjj schools are super bullshit when it comes to fighting and/or wrestling prowess. Bjj is super common now so you need to make sure you find the right school for your needs.
 
Because BJJ was made by small, weak guys who wanted to prove that you don't need strength to be good at fighting

Then the question arose, what if you got a big, strong guy and taught him the same techniques? Hence why we have weight classes in BJJ, as well as any mainstream combat sport.
 
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