Dillashaw is ahead of Cruz at Bantamweight GOAT status

[moreorless87]

WHo would be considered the best 135lbs ever at their peak?

Dillashaw, Cruz, Barao and Cody I'd say.

Matches between these fighters...

Dillashaw - Won: 4 Lost: 1
Cruz - Won:1 Lost: 1
Cody - Won 1 Lost 2
Barao - Won 0 Lost 2

Whats more the only fight Dillashaw lost and the only one Cruz won was an ultra close decision that was essentially a draw.

 

[rmongler]

WHo would be considered the best 135lbs ever at their peak?

Dillashaw, Cruz, Barao and Cody I'd say.

I would add Urijah Faber too that list.

 

[moreorless87]

I would add Urijah Faber too that list.

That might be arguably I spose although certainly not by the time of the third match with Cruz..

So adding him...

Dillashaw - Won: 4 Lost: 1
Cruz - Won: 2 Lost: 2
Barao - Won; 2 Lost: 2
Cody - Won; 1 Lost: 2
Faber - Won: 1 Lost: 3

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

TJ is the more devastating fighter and I can't help but weigh that when looking at GOAT status

 

[rmongler]

That might be arguably I spose although certainly not by the time of the third match with Cruz

People seem to forget nowadays but Faber was pretty much the OG; put lighter weight classes on the map and was the WECs largest draw, paving the way for the UFC to eventually decide to absorb the promotion and add divisions below 155, kinda like how Ronda was pretty much the reason UFC added a womens division.

 

[moreorless87]

People seem to forget nowadays but Faber was pretty much the OG; put lighter weight classes on the map and was the WECs largest draw, paving the way for the UFC to eventually decide to absorb the promotion and add divisions below 155, kinda like how Ronda was pretty much the reason UFC added a womens division.

Again though I don't think listening the third Cruz fight would be legit, there were questions of decline even as far back as Barao but that fight he wasn't in nearly as good form before or afterwards.

 

[Son of Sonnen]

WHo would be considered the best 135lbs ever at their peak?

Dillashaw, Cruz, Barao and Cody I'd say.

Matches between these fighters...

Dillashaw - Won: 4 Lost: 1
Cruz - Won:1 Lost: 1
Cody - Won 1 Lost 2
Barao - Won 0 Lost 2

Whats more the only fight Dillashaw lost and the only one Cruz won was an ultra close decision that was essentially a draw.

You TJ fans never fail to come up with convoluted rating systems that put him as the greatest athlete to ever walk the face of the earth.

 

[Son of Sonnen]

Again though I don't think listening the third Cruz fight would be legit, there were questions of decline even as far back as Barao but that fight he wasn't in nearly as good form before or afterwards.

Faber in decline = not legit

Barao in decline= TJ beat the most dominant BW twice!

 

[moreorless87]

You TJ fans never fail to come up with convoluted rating systems that put him as the greatest athlete to ever walk the face of the earth.

Quite the reverse, Cruz has benefited from promoter hype and booking for many years being trumpted as somehow the dominant force in the division when he was on the sidelines, having essentially a draw talked up as a clear win and being fed a clearly declined Faber. Meanwhile Dillashaw was made to work hard for another title shot after said fight and had to rematch champs he beat twice.

Dom is the king of beating 125er's though that's for sure.

 

[Shaddows]

TJ's UFC record 12-3 ;(Most Wins, Stoppages, KO's in UFC BW History)

Notable wins

• Cody Garbrandt x2
  
  
• Renan Barao x2
  
  
• John Lineker
  
  
• Raphael Assuncao

People forget how much of a monster Barao was and for TJ to wreck him twice is a huge deal and should be an extra feather in the cap for the GOAT Bantamweight talk.

Dom's UFC Record 5-1 (7-1 WEC) ;(Most consecutive UFC/WEC BW title defences: 4)

Notable wins

• Urijah Faber x2
  
  
• TJ Dillashaw
  
  
• Mighty Mouse
  
  
• Joseph Benevidez x2 (WEC)
  
  
• Brian Bowles (WEC)
  
  
• Scott Jorgensen (WEC)

I know that they all weighed 135 when they fought but there sure are a lot of flyweights on Cruz's record.Not to mention The Mighty Mouse that lost to Dom has got nothing to do with Current Mighty Mouse now.And yet Mighty Mouse still outstruck Cruz back in 2011.Cruz dominated the wrestling though.

Worth noting that if the Cruz decision had gone TJ’s way (which was incredibly possible), TJ’s reign could essentially read:

Renan Barao - won the belt (KO)

Joe Soto - first defense (KO)

Renan Barao - second defense (KO)

Dominick Cruz - third defense (Decision)

Raphael Assuncao - fourth defense (Decision)

John Lineker - fifth defense (Decision)

Cody Garbrandt - sixth defense (KO)

Cody Garbrandt - seventh defense (KO)

That’s not just “bantamweight GOAT” status; that’s “all time great” status.

Obviously it’s a hypothetical, but a realistic one. If TJ had gotten the instant rematch against Cruz (which would be a fair instant rematch, in my opinion, for an exciting uber close split decision), his career could read very different if you could count Assuncao and Lineker as legit defenses.

Sorry, but this is some biased post to the extreme.
On one hand, you claim the fight against DJ was long ago... but then you mention he was out struck by DJ...
Then you mention their fight (which Cruz won), but then you try to contemplate how it would look "if TJ had won".
Well, he did not.
And Cruz beat both DJ and TJ.

Cruz is not far ahead, but to make such claim using "what if" statements just doesn't work.

Let TJ defend his belt.
maybe even rematch Cruz.

then we can talk

 

[chinarice]

Cruz's record is more impressive given his competition.

Faber and MM who is a flyweight?

Nope. Barao beat Cruz's best win. Nope.

 

[moreorless87]

Faber in decline = not legit

Barao in decline= TJ beat the most dominant BW twice!

Didn't show any signs of decline before TJ got to him, Faber did before the third Cruz fight and didn't exactly take a career changing beating.

 

[rmongler]

Faber and MM who is a flyweight?

Nope. Barao beat Cruz's best win. Nope.

Well, TJ beat Barao, and Cruz beat TJ, so what does that mean then?

I don't have a dog in this fight but these threads always seem to have no shortage of weird statements.

 

[chinarice]

Well, TJ beat Barao, and Cruz beat TJ, so what does that mean then?

I don't have a dog in this fight but these threads always seem to have no shortage of weird statements.

Well, Cody beat Cruz and TJ beat Cody twice, so what does that mean then? Cruz "beat" TJ. Anyone that can say either definitively won is biased. The fact they didn't have an immediate rematch and the fact that so few people cares show how stupid MMA fans are in general and that they don't actually care about the legitimacy of the sport. They only care about their favourite fighters getting ahead, even if it is bs.

 

[rmongler]

Well, Cody beat Cruz and TJ beat Cody twice, so what does that mean then?

It means this whole discussion is silly until all these guys have fought more to settle the question.

 

[mirellale]

On one hand, you claim the fight against DJ was long ago... but then you mention he was out struck by DJ...

Yes Dom was outstruck against DJ long ago and now DJ is on another level compared to 2011 DJ.That's what i meant. Anything wrong?

Then you mention their fight (which Cruz won), but then you try to contemplate how it would look "if TJ had won".
Well, he did not.
And Cruz beat both DJ and TJ.

I guess you missed the part where i said that's ''hypothetical but a realistic one''? Cruz officialy won the fight but could have gone either way.He also had a very close fight with Assuncao first time around.You can also make an argument TJ won that fight too.

Let TJ defend his belt.
maybe even rematch Cruz.

TJ has already got better wins than Cruz.Couple title defenses would cement TJ's status as Bantamweight GOAT.

 

[jeremyemilio]

It's really not the time for this debate, is it?

Both of these guys are very special, and neither is done yet.

What I will say is that it's probably time more people recognize just how special the two of these guys are in the context of MMA as a whole. There's some legacy building still to be done (and, realistically, Dom may not have the time to do it) but skillwise, they really are near the top of the all time heap.

 

[chinarice]

It means this whole discussion is silly until all these guys have fought more to settle the question.

EXACTLY! What I have been saying all along! TJ and Cruz need to fight again but if they don't, TJ is going to end his career ahead of Cruz because Cruz is done. Those continuous long layoffs are making his career that much shorter and I will be surprised if he has 3 more fights before retiring. TJ is not done and their resumes are comparable already.

Cruz fans are just in denial about this fact.

 

[Dirge]

Perhaps you will understand when Lesnar destroys daniel cormier. If you still dont understand why Cruzs wins over TJ is so amazing, its pointless ... i cant fix low iq l0l

From turkey + tj dick rider + delusional = not a good combo.

I'm a bit torn here.

Clearly you are a complete idiot with double yellows with god knows how many banned sherdog accounts and a lesnar supporter, a "fighter" that got mauled by Cain and will get mauled just as easily by DC

But I do feel that Cruz beats TJ again

 

[Shaddows]

Yes Dom was outstruck against DJ long ago and now DJ is on another level compared to 2011 DJ.That's what i meant. Anything wrong?


I guess you missed the part where i said that's ''hypothetical but a realistic one''? Cruz officialy won the fight but could have gone either way.He also had a very close fight with Assuncao first time around.You can also make an argument TJ won that fight too.


TJ has already got better wins than Cruz.Couple title defenses would cement TJ's status as Bantamweight GOAT.

Sorry, but your biased narrative is just that.
Biased.

If you mention the fight is "too long ago to matter", then talking bout it is ridiculous since you just disqualified it (and you know it).

And claiming the fight could have gone either way is asinine. It didn't. Cruz won.

And lastly: if you admit yourself that "TJ needs a couple more victories", then you KNOW he is not ahead of Cruz.

Bottom line: If TJ and Cruz retired today, Cruz would be deemed GOAT, TJ just a close second.