Dillashaw is ahead of Cruz at Bantamweight GOAT status

[mirellale]

If you mention the fight is "too long ago to matter", then talking bout it is ridiculous since you just disqualified it (and you know it).

Do you even try to understand what i am trying to say? I'm saying Cruz beating Johnson in 2011 shouldn't be something to praised about because the Current Mighty Mouse has got nothing to do with 2011 Mighty Mouse.And even back in 2011 Mighty Mouse outstruck Dom.He is much better now.

And claiming the fight could have gone either way is asinine. It didn't. Cruz won.

Not according to everyone.The fact that i'm on sherdog arguing Dillashaw won the fight means there is a controversy.And not only me but also pro fighters,Dana,Lorenzo and Joe Silva thought TJ won that fight.Judges don't always get it right.No one can deny that.

Good thing they are not racing.They are fighting and there is scoring.Albeit not correct but still .

And lastly: if you admit yourself that "TJ needs a couple more victories", then you KNOW he is not ahead of Cruz.

You clearly lack reading comprehension.I think TJ is already the Bantamweight GOAT but defending his title multiple times would CEMENT his bantamweight GOAT status.It wouldn't even be an argument is what i am trying to say.

Bottom line: If TJ and Cruz retired today, Cruz would be deemed GOAT, TJ just a close second.

Nope he wouldn't.TJ's wins are definitely better.

 

[NationWideNinja]

The TJ win is hugeee for Cruz’ record, but otherwise I think TJ’s record is far superior.

Cruz beat a bunch of flyweights and parttimer Mighty Mouse. Scott was never truly elite, and Urijah always choked against elite fighters.

Meanwhile TJ has two dominant wins over Garbrandt, Barao, Lineker, Asuncao.

 

[Shaddows]

Do you even try to understand what i am trying to say? I'm saying Cruz beating Johnson in 2011 shouldn't be something to praised about because the Current Mighty Mouse has got nothing to do with 2011 Mighty Mouse.And even back in 2011 Mighty Mouse outstruck Dom.He is much better now.

Oh, so you assume DJ "is much better now" but Dom didn't improve at all...
what kind of asinine comment this is?
If you assume one improved, then you have to assume the other did as well.

Not according to everyone.The fact that i'm on sherdog arguing Dillashaw won the fight means there is a controversy.And not only me but also pro fighters,Dana,Lorenzo and Joe Silva thought TJ won that fight.Judges don't always get it right.No one can deny that.

Oh, just stop.
This place is full of arguments for anything.
Some claim Conor "almost won" against Floyd. Do you want to award any merrit to it as well?
he lost. That's all there is to it.
Deal with it.

Good thing they are not racing.They are fighting and there is scoring.Albeit not correct but still .

ireelevant.
Look at any site. Dom won.
Cry about it all you want.
Matter of fact, TJ has the belt and an opportunity to avenge that loss.... yet he rather fight guys from a lower division... That alone is telling.

You clearly lack reading comprehension.I think TJ is already the Bantamweight GOAT but defending his title multiple times would CEMENT his bantamweight GOAT status.It wouldn't even be an argument is what i am trying to say.

Not according to your own narrative.
You made excuses, justifications and a wishful thinking... then you claim he needed more wins... which is exactly what i said.
only you want to cry about it and deny reality.

Nope he wouldn't.TJ's wins are definitely better.

Only TJ lost to Dom.
look at his record. There's a LOSS marked in there.
Deny all you want, that's on you, not on the rest of the world. We deal with reality

 

[HIMBOB]

Tj admitted openly cruz wins that fight easy.

Style wise barao is awfully similar to Cody.

He would have been the hardest hitter Cruz had ever faced, but Cruz was injured for the whole three years Barao ruled the division. You can't question Cruz being smart.......

 

[HIMBOB]

Perhaps you will understand when Lesnar destroys daniel cormier. If you still dont understand why Cruzs wins over TJ is so amazing, its pointless ... i cant fix low iq l0l

From turkey + tj dick rider + delusional = not a good combo.

It's a good win certainly.

In fact that Split decision over TJ is far and away his best win (which says alot).

 

[Joe i]

 

[mirellale]

Oh, so you assume DJ "is much better now" but Dom didn't improve at all...
what kind of asinine comment this is?
If you assume one improved, then you have to assume the other did as well.

I didn't say Dom hasn't improved but his striking kind of relies on his movement.And his knees has only gotten worse since then.

Some claim Conor "almost won" against Floyd. Do you want to award any merrit to it as well?

That's dumb because he got KO'd.That's really dumb.TJ lost by split decision.Not even close.

Look at any site. Dom won.

Shal i look at twitter?

Matter of fact, TJ has the belt and an opportunity to avenge that loss.... yet he rather fight guys from a lower division... That alone is telling.

If Dom had an opportunity like that he would take it as well and you wouldn't say anything because you don't hate him.Clear as day.

Not according to your own narrative.
You made excuses, justifications and a wishful thinking... then you claim he needed more wins... which is exactly what i said.
only you want to cry about it and deny reality.

LOL show me where did i make excuses? You are at it again.I believe TJ is the bantamweight GOAT but if he defends his title multiple times it won't even be arguable.Right now i believe it's arguable but i got TJ as a bantamweight GOAT.It's baffling you don't understand such thing or maybe you are playing stupid.

Only TJ lost to Dom.
look at his record. There's a LOSS marked in there.
Deny all you want, that's on you, not on the rest of the world. We deal with reality

Dom's best wins:Faber x2,bloated flyweight Benavidez,bloated flyweight and green Mighty Mouse,Bowles

TJ's best wins:Barao x2,Garbrandt x2,Assuncao,Lineker

It's pretty clear TJ has better wins.The only blemishes on his record are razor thin losses to Assuncao and Cruz

Is Conor the featherweight GOAT just because he KO'd Aldo?

Deny all you want, that's on you, not on the rest of the world. We deal with reality

Reality is the fight was close as hell and many people on earth got TJ winning.Including professional fighters.

 

[Shaddows]

I didn't say Dom hasn't improved but his striking kind of relies on his movement.And his knees has only gotten worse since then.


That's dumb because he got KO'd.That's really dumb.TJ lost by split decision.Not even close.


Shal i look at twitter?






























If Dom had an opportunity like that he would take it as well and you wouldn't say anything because you don't hate him.Clear as day.


LOL show me where did i make excuses? You are at it again.I believe TJ is the bantamweight GOAT but if he defends his title multiple times it won't even be arguable.Right now i believe it's arguable but i got TJ as a bantamweight GOAT.It's baffling you don't understand such thing or maybe you are playing stupid.


Dom's best wins:Barao x2,bloated flyweight Benavidez,bloated flyweight and green Mighty Mouse,Bowles

TJ's best wins:Barao x2,Garbrandt x2,Assuncao,Lineker

It's pretty clear TJ has better wins.The only blemishes on his record are razor thin losses to Assuncao and Cruz

Is Conor the featherweight GOAT just because he KO'd Aldo?


Reality is the fight was close as hell and many people on earth got TJ winning.Including professional fighters.

You seem to continue to iignore reality.
it was close but you try to claim like TJ won. he did not.
Cruz edged him. TJ lost.
Claiming he could have, would have, should have is just a wishful thinking from an obvious nuthugger.

 

[FireKidWS]

TJ's UFC record 12-3 ;(Most Wins, Stoppages, KO's in UFC BW History)

Notable wins

• Cody Garbrandt x2
  
  
• Renan Barao x2
  
  
• John Lineker
  
  
• Raphael Assuncao

People forget how much of a monster Barao was and for TJ to wreck him twice is a huge deal and should be an extra feather in the cap for the GOAT Bantamweight talk.

Dom's UFC Record 5-1 (7-1 WEC) ;(Most consecutive UFC/WEC BW title defences: 4)

Notable wins

• Urijah Faber x2
  
  
• TJ Dillashaw
  
  
• Mighty Mouse
  
  
• Joseph Benevidez x2 (WEC)
  
  
• Brian Bowles (WEC)
  
  
• Scott Jorgensen (WEC)

I know that they all weighed 135 when they fought but there sure are a lot of flyweights on Cruz's record.Not to mention The Mighty Mouse that lost to Dom has got nothing to do with Current Mighty Mouse now.And yet Mighty Mouse still outstruck Cruz back in 2011.Cruz dominated the wrestling though.

Worth noting that if the Cruz decision had gone TJ’s way (which was incredibly possible), TJ’s reign could essentially read:

Renan Barao - won the belt (KO)

Joe Soto - first defense (KO)

Renan Barao - second defense (KO)

Dominick Cruz - third defense (Decision)

Raphael Assuncao - fourth defense (Decision)

John Lineker - fifth defense (Decision)

Cody Garbrandt - sixth defense (KO)

Cody Garbrandt - seventh defense (KO)

That’s not just “bantamweight GOAT” status; that’s “all time great” status.

Obviously it’s a hypothetical, but a realistic one. If TJ had gotten the instant rematch against Cruz (which would be a fair instant rematch, in my opinion, for an exciting uber close split decision), his career could read very different if you could count Assuncao and Lineker as legit defenses.

I don’t think you are trolling TS as you seem to believe very strongly in what you say.

I will say many on Sherdog are
Close to saying that TJ is the goat, but not there yet.

I think if TJ beats Moraes and beats Cruz decisively, he will have a much better argument about being the GOAT. If he beats Cruz twice then I think it would be close to settled.

But I think many are tired of up and comers, even solid ones, being compared to legends too early.

TJ might become the GOAT bantamweight. But it’s a bit unfair to Cruz to say he is right now.

 

[mirellale]

You seem to continue to iignore reality.
it was close but you try to claim like TJ won. he did not.
Cruz edged him. TJ lost.

I am not the only one on earth who scored the fight for TJ.Dana,Lorenzo,Silva,Pro fighters thought TJ won as well.I said this like hundred times.Fight could have gone either way and there are people who scored for TJ.

Claiming he could have, would have, should have is just a wishful thinking from an obvious nuthugger.

Dana,Lorenzo,Silva and Pro Fighters are TJ nuthuggers as well?

 

[MCS]

Bowles was undefeated and more importantly had just pulled off a HUGE upset by knocking out Torres. That win is way, way bigger than beating a solid Soto, for example.

Barao was proven to be overrated. During his run fans were questioning his record and skill, as he fought a bunch of cans and was getting out-struck by Wineland before the comeback. "Lesser version of Aldo".

It's still a good win, but Barao doesn't belong in the top-tier debate as a deciding point. MM does, as he was elite before dropping down. As was Joe B. Length at the top matters. Cody doesn't have it, Faber has. And then Cruz's better overall record and their head-to-head and it should be clear.

 

[storeybuckle]

Cruz will destroy TJ again.

Destroyed? Lmao.

 

[PanicWrassler]

TJ fell short in the first fight.

He was bamboozled by Cruz' good looks.

He has experience now with Cody x2.

He destroys Cruz in the rematch.

 

[Son of Sonnen]

Quite the reverse, Cruz has benefited from promoter hype and booking for many years being trumpted as somehow the dominant force in the division when he was on the sidelines, having essentially a draw talked up as a clear win and being fed a clearly declined Faber. Meanwhile Dillashaw was made to work hard for another title shot after said fight and had to rematch champs he beat twice.

Dom is the king of beating 125er's though that's for sure.

Dominic Cruz has only lost twice in his whole career. He beat TJ whether it was by an inch or a mile. Not giving his career and accomplishments the respect it deserves you hurt your own arguments about TJs greatness. If Dom is overrated than not only does TJs loss look worse, but his wins over Neck tats aren't worth as much easier as that is really the only all time significant win on his resume. Work hard? He had 2 fights. Dom never even lost his title and he had to fight on his return to earn a title shot. Faber clearly declined? In the years before he retired he lost to Dom, Jimmy Rivera and Frankie Edgar. 2 HOFrs and a guy that hadn't lost since 2008.

Didn't show any signs of decline before TJ got to him, Faber did before the third Cruz fight and didn't exactly take a career changing beating.

TJ beat him pillar to post the first time. Barao looked the same in that fight as he has since. I might buy into the TJ took his soul garbage if Barao looked pretty good in the first fight and TJ overcame him and he never looked the same since. All the evidence points to it being more likely that that first loss to TJ was the beginning of his decline, not the cause of it. I try not to take away from TJ what was a tremendous win and a huge upset, but you TJ fans make it difficult the way you talk about those fights.

 

[moreorless87]

Dominic Cruz has only lost twice in his whole career. He beat TJ whether it was by an inch or a mile. Not giving his career and accomplishments the respect it deserves you hurt your own arguments about TJs greatness. If Dom is overrated than not only does TJs loss look worse, but his wins over Neck tats aren't worth as much easier as that is really the only all time significant win on his resume. Work hard? He had 2 fights. Dom never even lost his title and he had to fight on his return to earn a title shot. Faber clearly declined? In the years before he retired he lost to Dom, Jimmy Rivera and Frankie Edgar. 2 HOFrs and a guy that hadn't lost since 2008.

I mean 125er jokes aside I'd have him as the #2 guy at 135 ever and if he won a rematch more clearly he'd probably be #1 again so yes he's obviously credible, As far as Faber goes yeah I do think he had clearly been looking worse before the 3rd time Dom and very few people felt he deserved that title fight, it was basically setup for a trilogy and to give Cruz an easy defence, the only wins Faber had close to that fight were against not very relevant fighters, Alex Caceres 2 years before was probably his last good win.

TJ beat him pillar to post the first time. Barao looked the same in that fight as he has since. I might buy into the TJ took his soul garbage if Barao looked pretty good in the first fight and TJ overcame him and he never looked the same since. All the evidence points to it being more likely that that first loss to TJ was the beginning of his decline, not the cause of it. I try not to take away from TJ what was a tremendous win and a huge upset, but you TJ fans make it difficult the way you talk about those fights.

TJ rocked Barao badly in the first round and then beat him up for the rest of the fight when he was not fully recovered from it(Barao himself claimed to have no memory of much of the fight didn't he?) before finishing late. The fight before that Barao was doing what Cruz couldn't do in 10 rounds in 1 round finishing Faber.

This is probably the most clear case of soul stealing in MMA history I would say.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

He shouldn't.But bottom line is he was the p4p number one.TJ wanted to fight him,capture the second belt,make history and strengthen his legacy.


If dipstickjimmy says so... who are you again?

 

[mirellale]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2] The terms ad mulierem[3] and ad feminam[4] have been used when the person receiving the criticism is a woman.

Looks like we are done here.Thanks for the argument.

Spoiler

May TJ bless your soul.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2] The terms ad mulierem[3] and ad feminam[4] have been used when the person receiving the criticism is a woman.

Looks like we are done here.Thanks for the argument.

Spoiler

May TJ bless your soul.

You are going a long way to do exactly what you just wrote about. Simple fact is TJ is the champion in a higher weight class and is chasing the smaller division's champion. You keep throwing out deflection after deflection to avoid the FACT that TJ is chasing the smaller guy. You stopped having an intelligent debate when you started recycling TJ wanted the P4P best as a challenge BS. He wanted to fight a smaller guy to get a 2nd title and he had ZERO defenses. As DJ said to Dana "Fuck what TJ wants"

 

[ironfist05]

No

 

[mirellale]

You are going a long way to do exactly what you just wrote about. Simple fact is TJ is the champion in a higher weight class and is chasing the smaller division's champion. You keep throwing out deflection after deflection to avoid the FACT that TJ is chasing the smaller guy. You stopped having an intelligent debate when you started recycling TJ wanted the P4P best as a challenge BS. He wanted to fight a smaller guy to get a 2nd title and he had ZERO defenses. As DJ said to Dana "Fuck what TJ wants"

There is noone who is larger than Mighty Mouse in the UFC.Is no one allowed to fight him? Or everyone who wants to fight Mighty Mouse is a pussy?

It's not Dillashaw's fault that Mighty Mouse is a super midget.