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And Malaysia canceled 3 infrastructure projects.
Economy The U.S-China Trade War: China said it would impose retaliatory tariffs on $75 billion in U.S. goods
- Thread starter Arkain2K
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And Malaysia canceled 3 infrastructure projects.
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Good.
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Probably a bit of both.
The Mainland Chinese as a whole are represented by unethical uncouth assholes. Doesn't help that the CCCP are resource-hungry dictators. The difference in culture between the two neighbours is jarring and that contributes to the difference in attitude by the West towards them.
But if Japan was poised to overtake the US as the world's superpower, I have no doubt there will be a wave of anti-Japan rhetoric sweeping through America and no "love for Japan" will stop that. It wouldn't sit well with the Americans thinking they'll be overshadowed by another nation, let alone an Asian one.
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That particular battle actually already played out through 1980's and early 90's albeit on a smaller scale. China's economic system operates in much the same way as Japan's did during their inevitable rise to superpower status.
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I think the difference between Japan's rise as a global world power during the 80s is during that time Japan is not or shall we say no longer a formidable military power nor continued to lay claims to vast stretches of the South China sea even though not to long ago they did invade almost the whole of east Asia.
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@NoDak
AMLO says that he gets the cake and eats it too with new NAFTA deal, but cant tell until text is released.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...al-preserves-energy-sovereignty-idUSKCN1LC2BP
AMLO says that he gets the cake and eats it too with new NAFTA deal, but cant tell until text is released.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...al-preserves-energy-sovereignty-idUSKCN1LC2BP
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Not trade related per se as it predates the trade war but it does give you a sense of the kind of “partner” we’re dealing with...
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/china-has-withheld-samples-of-a-dangerous-flu-virus/ar-BBMwyrr
For over a year, the Chinese government has withheld lab samples of a rapidly evolving influenza virus from the United States — specimens needed to develop vaccines and treatments, according to federal health officials.
Despite persistent requests from government officials and research institutions, China has not provided samples of the dangerous virus, a type of bird flu called H7N9. In the past, such exchanges have been mostly routine under rules established by the World Health Organization.
Now, as the United States and China spar over trade, some scientists worry that the vital exchange of medical supplies and information could slow, hampering preparedness for the next biological threat.
The scenario is “unlike shortages in aluminum and soybeans,” said Dr. Michael Callahan, an infectious disease specialist at Harvard Medical School.
“Jeopardizing U.S. access to foreign pathogens and therapies to counter them undermines our nation’s ability to protect against infections which can spread globally within days.”
Experts concur that the world’s next global pandemic will likely come from a repeat offender: the flu. The H7N9 virus is one candidate.
Since taking root in China in 2013, the virus has spread through poultry farms, evolving into a highly pathogenic strain that can infect humans. It has killed 40 percent of its victims.
If this strain were to become highly contagious among humans, seasonal flu vaccines would provide little to no protection. Americans have virtually no immunity.
Under an agreement established by the World Health Organization, participating countries must transfer influenza samples with pandemic potential to designated research centers “in a timely manner.”
That process — involving paperwork, approval through several agencies and a licensed carrier — normally takes several months, according to Dr. Larry Kerr, the director of pandemics and emerging threats at the Department of Health and Human Services.
But more than one year after a devastating wave of H7N9 infections in Asia — 766 cases were reported, almost all in China — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is still waiting for several viral samples, the National Security Council and the W.H.O. confirmed.
Scientists at the Department of Agriculture have had such difficulty obtaining flu samples from China that they have stopped requesting them altogether, according to a government official who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss the matter.
At least four research institutions have relied upon a small group of H7N9 samples from cases in Taiwan and Hong Kong. (All four asked not to be identified for fear of further straining ties.)
The Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to multiple requests for comment. The Chinese Center For Disease Control and Prevention also did not reply to inquiries regarding the transfer.
When the H7N9 virus first appeared in China, researchers say the Chinese government at first provided timely information. But communication has gradually worsened.
Yet a sudden spike in infections during the 2016-2017 outbreak wave demands intense research, said scientists aiming to understand the virus’ evolution.
Recent trade tensions could worsen the problem.
The Office of the United States Trade Representative in April released a proposed list of products to be targeted for tariffs — including pharmaceutical products such as vaccines, medicines and medical devices.
So far, none of those medical products have landed on the final tariff lists. But lower-level trade negotiations with China concluded on Thursday with few signs of progress, increasing the likelihood of additional tariffs.
The United States relies on China not only for H7N9 influenza samples but for medical supplies, such as plastic drip mechanisms for intravenous saline, as well as ingredients for certain oncology and anesthesia drugs. Some of these are delivered through a just-in-time production model; there are no stockpiles, which could prove dangerous if the supply was disrupted, health officials said.
Scientists believe top commerce officials in both governments view the viral samples much like any other laboratory product, and may be unfamiliar with their vital role in global security.
“Countries don’t own their viral samples any more than they own the birds in their skies,” said Andrew C. Weber, who oversaw biological defense programs at the Pentagon during the Obama administration.
“Given that this flu virus is a potential threat to humanity, not sharing it immediately with the global network of W.H.O. laboratories like C.D.C. is scandalous. Many could die needlessly if China denies international access to samples.”
For over a decade, epidemiological data and samples have been used as trade war pawns.
China hid the 2002 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, for four months and then kept the findings of its research private. Some provinces withheld information about cases even from the central government in Beijing.
In 2005, Chinese authorities insisted an H5N1 influenza outbreak was contained, contradicting University of Hong Kong scientists who offered evidence that it was expanding. Those authorities hesitated to share viral samples from infected wild birds with the international community, concealing the scope to avoid a hit to their vast poultry industry.
Indonesia followed suit, refusing in 2007 to share specimens of H5N1 with the United States and United Kingdom, arguing that the countries would use the samples to develop a vaccine that Indonesians could not afford.
Those episodes led to the 2011 development of the W.H.O.’s Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Framework, which aims to promote sample exchanges as well as developing countries’ access to vaccines.
But for countries like China, bearing the burden of a novel virus is paradoxical. Outbreaks are expensive — the wave of H7N9 infections in 2013 alone cost China more than$6 billion, according to the United Nations — but they can provide a head-start in developing valuable treatments.
“In a sense, China has made lemonade from lemons — converting the problem of global infectious disease threats into lifesaving and valuable commodities,” Dr. Callahan said.
And now, as the H7N9 virus evolves, United States authorities worry that the Chinese have obfuscated the scale and features of this outbreak.
The Chinese government has refused to share clinical data from infected patients, according to scientists, and claims to have all but eradicated H7N9 through a single poultry vaccination campaign.
“Influenza is going to do what it does best, which is mutate,” Dr. Kerr said.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/china-has-withheld-samples-of-a-dangerous-flu-virus/ar-BBMwyrr
For over a year, the Chinese government has withheld lab samples of a rapidly evolving influenza virus from the United States — specimens needed to develop vaccines and treatments, according to federal health officials.
Despite persistent requests from government officials and research institutions, China has not provided samples of the dangerous virus, a type of bird flu called H7N9. In the past, such exchanges have been mostly routine under rules established by the World Health Organization.
Now, as the United States and China spar over trade, some scientists worry that the vital exchange of medical supplies and information could slow, hampering preparedness for the next biological threat.
The scenario is “unlike shortages in aluminum and soybeans,” said Dr. Michael Callahan, an infectious disease specialist at Harvard Medical School.
“Jeopardizing U.S. access to foreign pathogens and therapies to counter them undermines our nation’s ability to protect against infections which can spread globally within days.”
Experts concur that the world’s next global pandemic will likely come from a repeat offender: the flu. The H7N9 virus is one candidate.
Since taking root in China in 2013, the virus has spread through poultry farms, evolving into a highly pathogenic strain that can infect humans. It has killed 40 percent of its victims.
If this strain were to become highly contagious among humans, seasonal flu vaccines would provide little to no protection. Americans have virtually no immunity.
Under an agreement established by the World Health Organization, participating countries must transfer influenza samples with pandemic potential to designated research centers “in a timely manner.”
That process — involving paperwork, approval through several agencies and a licensed carrier — normally takes several months, according to Dr. Larry Kerr, the director of pandemics and emerging threats at the Department of Health and Human Services.
But more than one year after a devastating wave of H7N9 infections in Asia — 766 cases were reported, almost all in China — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is still waiting for several viral samples, the National Security Council and the W.H.O. confirmed.
Scientists at the Department of Agriculture have had such difficulty obtaining flu samples from China that they have stopped requesting them altogether, according to a government official who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss the matter.
At least four research institutions have relied upon a small group of H7N9 samples from cases in Taiwan and Hong Kong. (All four asked not to be identified for fear of further straining ties.)
The Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to multiple requests for comment. The Chinese Center For Disease Control and Prevention also did not reply to inquiries regarding the transfer.
When the H7N9 virus first appeared in China, researchers say the Chinese government at first provided timely information. But communication has gradually worsened.
Yet a sudden spike in infections during the 2016-2017 outbreak wave demands intense research, said scientists aiming to understand the virus’ evolution.
Recent trade tensions could worsen the problem.
The Office of the United States Trade Representative in April released a proposed list of products to be targeted for tariffs — including pharmaceutical products such as vaccines, medicines and medical devices.
So far, none of those medical products have landed on the final tariff lists. But lower-level trade negotiations with China concluded on Thursday with few signs of progress, increasing the likelihood of additional tariffs.
The United States relies on China not only for H7N9 influenza samples but for medical supplies, such as plastic drip mechanisms for intravenous saline, as well as ingredients for certain oncology and anesthesia drugs. Some of these are delivered through a just-in-time production model; there are no stockpiles, which could prove dangerous if the supply was disrupted, health officials said.
Scientists believe top commerce officials in both governments view the viral samples much like any other laboratory product, and may be unfamiliar with their vital role in global security.
“Countries don’t own their viral samples any more than they own the birds in their skies,” said Andrew C. Weber, who oversaw biological defense programs at the Pentagon during the Obama administration.
“Given that this flu virus is a potential threat to humanity, not sharing it immediately with the global network of W.H.O. laboratories like C.D.C. is scandalous. Many could die needlessly if China denies international access to samples.”
For over a decade, epidemiological data and samples have been used as trade war pawns.
China hid the 2002 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, for four months and then kept the findings of its research private. Some provinces withheld information about cases even from the central government in Beijing.
In 2005, Chinese authorities insisted an H5N1 influenza outbreak was contained, contradicting University of Hong Kong scientists who offered evidence that it was expanding. Those authorities hesitated to share viral samples from infected wild birds with the international community, concealing the scope to avoid a hit to their vast poultry industry.
Indonesia followed suit, refusing in 2007 to share specimens of H5N1 with the United States and United Kingdom, arguing that the countries would use the samples to develop a vaccine that Indonesians could not afford.
Those episodes led to the 2011 development of the W.H.O.’s Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Framework, which aims to promote sample exchanges as well as developing countries’ access to vaccines.
But for countries like China, bearing the burden of a novel virus is paradoxical. Outbreaks are expensive — the wave of H7N9 infections in 2013 alone cost China more than$6 billion, according to the United Nations — but they can provide a head-start in developing valuable treatments.
“In a sense, China has made lemonade from lemons — converting the problem of global infectious disease threats into lifesaving and valuable commodities,” Dr. Callahan said.
And now, as the H7N9 virus evolves, United States authorities worry that the Chinese have obfuscated the scale and features of this outbreak.
The Chinese government has refused to share clinical data from infected patients, according to scientists, and claims to have all but eradicated H7N9 through a single poultry vaccination campaign.
“Influenza is going to do what it does best, which is mutate,” Dr. Kerr said.
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Fair enough, I feel similarly towards your nation, and tbh I feel just as justified in that or even more so. I try to study all history, not just the one with a western perspective. Americas body count far exceeds the PRC in terms of harming civilians, Most will refer to the cultural revolution but most of those people died due to starvation.
Yes but how did those revolutions come about? Most historians agree that Europe would have the same overpopulation problems as Asia/Africa if not for the beubonic plague. The plague mostly wiped out the underclass, the uneducated and left the aristocratic class.
Afterwards came the renaissance and the age of science. Europeans average IQ peaked at this time. You can look to that specific event as the catalyst of European exceptionalism.
Also being the most westward in Eurasia saved them from being set back 200 years like the Middle East during the Mongol dynasty. At the time the middle east was on par with Europe in terms of advancement and they were there main rivals militarily.
In the span of a few centuries, their main rivals were eliminated, their average intelligence raised and their population and sanitation problems solved. Out of misery comes prosperity, the plague was miserable time for Europeans but also their greatest gift.
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I dont think so necessarily, you're only looking at the negative aspects of it. Lets be real, most people Asian or American are stuck in whatever 'strata' they started out with, the tiny percentage of people who get out are exceedingly rare in any culture. I've seen westerners who are just as conformist as anyone asian, just as subservient to authority figures. Look at the amount of police brutality and excessive force in America and how many people condone it. Look at the fact that an Oligarch or someone of wealth can basically get away with murder. For the most part the 'hope' is just a sales pitch, the reality quite different.
Partly that, I never said that wasnt a factor. I'm simply stating that one of Americas biggest advantages is its land, while you're only equating their culture and systems as thier advantage, but its broader than that. Also its not just that, America is a more resource abundant nation despite all that, more arable land, more oil. Its the climate and geographical positioning. In terms of minerals, yea East Asians probably extracted much more due to 5000 years of history.
Let me ask you is China better off now or in the 60s, how about South Korea? They have a confucian culture that helped them rebuild nations, Western nations did not invest alot into SK after the war, they built it up from scratch. China/SK both had lower GDPs than almost all African nations in the 60s/70s.
So yeah, the ones at the top benefit most but as a nation grows stronger and richer, everyone benefits. Which is what happened in China/SK. Theres other benefits to confucian culture which you wouldn't understand if you've never lived in one.
You might sneer at it or doubt it but living with more systems of interactions gives people a sense of belonging in a society. Confucian/Daoist priniciples focus on communal values rather than the hyper individualism of the west. Asian nations who adopted more of an individualist culture aren't doing as well ie: Phillipines.
Confucianism may not be the cool thing now, but its also not the strictly the heinous thing you may perceive it to be. At the end of the day, the results speak for themselves.
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Not everyone loves Japan, and if supporting dictators is the litmus test then the number of nations not on that list is very few. Definitely not the US, who I was originally refering to. US has done alot more damage internationally then China, not even close.
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During the 80s, the anti-Japan rhetoric was definitely there. Vincent Chin was mistaken as a Japanese and murdered by 2 white American men who recently lost their jobs due to the auto plant shutting down, both were found not guilty of all charges.
Also, America nuked Japan twice and beat them soundly in all out war, they also interned Japanese Americans. Its kinda like after you beat the shit out of a guy, you're not going to be as angry with him anymore, you've done enough its out of your system.
The same cannot be said for China who went to a draw or what some call a victory in the Korean Conflict, Mcarthur wanted to use Nuclear weapons on China during the war. The Chinese never forgot Americas role in colonization and chemical warfare in the Opium wars, Americans were some of the largest distributors of Opium in China at the time.
Also like you said, China does not have a non-proliferation treaty like Japan. China is an 100% independant nation not under control of Western Oligarchs, no western foreign bases on their soil. Unlike Japan they present a military threat.
Anti-China rhetoric ramped up especially after Hong Kong returned to China. This marked the end of any semblance of western control of their lands. And that makes westerners very angry.
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The US receives its fair share of hate, the issue is that the US has not been doing that lately, in fact they have been pushing for democracy and human rights pretty much everywhere except the middle east.
China supports people like Maduro or Mugabe, its understandable that people will feel like the Chinese are supporting their oppressors and its not just the West, plenty of people in third world countries are resenting the Chinese preying on corruption.
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How to forget this gem, anti-China rhetoric ramped up after China turned back on his promise to respect democracy in Hong Kong. That paved the way for a not a fucking chance of Taiwan going to China peacefully.
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You won’t find anti-Chinese sentiment aimed at regular Chinese people. I don’t see this wave of attacks on Chinese people. And when it comes to business I see more hate directed at big “””American””” businesses going to China and abandoning Americans.
Could it be that the Chinese government is legitimately shitty? Nah it’s propaganda
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Noted American Rod1 drinking the War Machine kool aid.
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The middle east is where they are most active at the moment and they support terrorists and dictators, you can't simply eliminate an entire region to fit your argument. They also do alot of work in South America, arming rebellions and toppling governments. Democracy doesn't work everywhere, in parts of SEA, Africa and South America we see failed democracies everywhere. Also you can't claim to care about civil rights and then inflict so much civilian casualties in the last 50 years.
China does business with anyone that has the money or resources, they don't care about the type of governance or whether they are dictators. The fact is that places like Africa are still better off now with the deals they've made with China, they are an emerging market.
We should know by now that in certain regions of the world theres no point mixing morality and business. Morality plays a backseat when everyones poor and starving, better to do business with a dictator then place crippling sanctions that starve the people even more.
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Taiwan was never going to China peacefully, you think Uncle Sam is just going to sit there and let that happen?
Hong Kong turning more communist is still a relatively recent, ongoing process. It was returned 20 years ago in 1997. I only mark this date because it was a significant shift in how the west viewed China. Mostly thought of as a developing nation (ie shithole) before that, the world payed attention to China on that date for the first time in a while. And started seeing them less as a backwards nation and more as an upstart potential superpower.
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I see it quite a bit, blaming Chinese for polluting the world, eating dogs, being shitty tourists. Most westerners see them as very one dimensional people that fit into narrowly defined stereotypes.
'Made in China' is basically a four letter word these days. Most of the hate comes from Westerners or South East Asians.
Sure the government isn't perfect, the nation wasn't perfect. Colonized by the west, civil war, Japanese occupation followed by the cultural revolution. Poverty and famine on a massive scale all over the nation as early as the 1970s. Meanwhile the US, relatively untouched, bellies full from conquest and prosperous for centuries uninterrupted.
That same shitty government lifted 800 million people out of poverty, is now investing into emerging markets in Africa and building the largest trade infrastructure project in history. They've become a manufacturing giant powering global industry and now reinvesting in tech and green energy.
https://www.financialexpress.com/wo...out-of-poverty-is-historic-world-bank/892459/
So yeah, they've done shitty things but alot of good things. Just like most nations, but instead of seeing things from a holistic perspective, people rather villainize to simplify a complex world. We need bad guys, we need good guys to keep our world view consistent. For the west, China represents the new 'flavor of the month' villain.
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You’re attributing ignorance and racism to war mongering lol.
You’re trying to give the CCP credit for Chinese rise to power ignoring the fact that the CCP is why they were held back in the first place.
Ever heard of Taiwan? Hong Kong? Even Singapore, which is majority Chinese and was led by a Chinese man to prosperity? Not to mention other Asian powers like Japan and SK which are also not only more prosperous than China but are democratic.
Congratu-fucking-lations Community Party of China, you brought China out of poverty that you helped put into, with the shockingly simple solution of opening up your markets to the world, all while maintaining a corrupt authoritarian rule.
Fuck off with that bullshit, in the absence of the CCP, China would be richer, would have become richer sooner, and would probably be a stronger nation overall, when you consider all the rich, intelligent, highly skilled people that leave China in large part due to corruption, pollution, and a lack of freedom
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