UFC 256: Figueiredo vs. Moreno

[carolinagrapple]

Al Bundy would have better take on these fights.

Ed O'Neil who played Al Bundy has a legit BJJ black belt under Rorion Gracie...you might be right haha

 

[sonhow]

Darren Stewart is a very inconsistent fighter. The fact that he did well vs Holland might have no relevance to this Jacare fight.

 

[mkess101]

I think it's more of the fact that Holland was completely dominated on the ground less than a year ago by Brendan Allen. Even Stewart had him full mounted and was doing a lot of damage before the fight ended.

His ground game is subpar at best, and he isn't really a 1 punch KO kind of guy.

Yes, he KO'd Buckley in the third, but that was after an accumulation of strikes throughout the fight.

Jacare just went 5 rounds with the LHW champ in his last fight. He's obviously at the tail end of his career, but even so, Holland is getting too much respect because of all the fights he's had this year.

Yeah I don't think Holland's ground game looks good, but Brendan Allen isn't a slouch grappler either, he's damn good. Not Jacare level obviously, but what Allen does have at this point that I don't think Jacare does is the ability to set up a shot and get an athletic guy to the mat.

Jacare's TD attempts now look so slow and telegraphed (when he even tries them). And it's a huge problem for him because his wrestling at best was only ever just "okay" technically. He realized he could use his crazy athleticism to get in on guys hips and get them down, but once his explosiveness fell off that seemed to go away. IF Jacare gets Holland to the mat, I agree that Holland is in trouble. There's a very wide skill gap there. I just have very little confidence that Jacare can do it.

Jacare did go 5 with Jan yeah. He had an okay rd 1, but did pretty much nothing after that. That was a weird fight but Jacare looked scared of Jan, I mean Jacare landed what, maybe 5 strikes per round or so? If that?

Edit: Just checked and Jacare landed 20 sig strikes TOTAL in that fight. Over 5 rounds...

I could be overstating his decline, I fully realize that. But to me he hasn't looked like anything close to what he used to be.

 

[Deleted member 316645]

Yeah I don't think Holland's ground game looks good, but Brendan Allen isn't a slouch grappler either, he's damn good. Not Jacare level obviously, but what Allen does have at this point that I don't think Jacare does is the ability to set up a shot and get an athletic guy to the mat.

Jacare's TD attempts now look so slow and telegraphed (when he even tries them). And it's a huge problem for him because his wrestling at best was only ever just "okay" technically. He realized he could use his crazy athleticism to get in on guys hips and get them down, but once his explosiveness fell off that seemed to go away. IF Jacare gets Holland to the mat, I agree that Holland is in trouble. There's a very wide skill gap there. I just have very little confidence that Jacare can do it.

Jacare did go 5 with Jan yeah. He had an okay rd 1, but did pretty much nothing after that. That was a weird fight but Jacare looked scared of Jan, I mean Jacare landed what, maybe 5 strikes per round or so? If that?

Edit: Just checked and Jacare landed 20 sig strikes TOTAL in that fight. Over 5 rounds...

I could be overstating his decline, I fully realize that. But to me he hasn't looked like anything close to what he used to be.

I think he has declined for sure. And his fight with Jan consisted of him holding Jan up against the fence hoping to not get his head knocked off(and he succeeded).

However I just don't rate Holland that highly. There's a lot of recency bias going on with him, since he's been the most active fighter during the pandemic.

Last fight he beat someone who didn't belong in Bellator, let alone the UFC.

His most notable win of his career is Buckley, and Buckley is just a massive hype train that's incredibly green.

When asked about Jacare's ground game, Holland basically said he's not worried because his coach(Travis Lutter) has put him in spots Jacare could put him in.

...good luck with that.

Anyways, I think Jacare would have to fight the worst fight of his career to lose to Holland. Possible, but I'd only play Holland at +150 or better.

 

[TrueAscension]

My issue with Holland is he has looked GREAT against absolutely nobody and I can't help but remember my motto two years ago was NEVER BET ON KEVIN HOLLAND. I think he looks good for a round, then finds himself in some deep shit. Jacare by sub.

Which means, if you have been paying attention at all to my recent leans, Holland will win

 

[mkess101]

I think he has declined for sure. And his fight with Jan consisted of him holding Jan up against the fence hoping to not get his head knocked off(and he succeeded).

However I just don't rate Holland that highly. There's a lot of recency bias going on with him, since he's been the most active fighter during the pandemic.

Last fight he beat someone who didn't belong in Bellator, let alone the UFC.

His most notable win of his career is Buckley, and Buckley is just a massive hype train that's incredibly green.

When asked about Jacare's ground game, Holland basically said he's not worried because his coach(Travis Lutter) has put him in spots Jacare could put him in.

...good luck with that.

Anyways, I think Jacare would have to fight the worst fight of his career to lose to Holland. Possible, but I'd only play Holland at +150 or better.

LOL @ that Holland quote. He better be focused like a madman on keeping the fight standing.

 

[Card]

Everyone made weight

 

[StewDogg11]

I think he has declined for sure. And his fight with Jan consisted of him holding Jan up against the fence hoping to not get his head knocked off(and he succeeded).

However I just don't rate Holland that highly. There's a lot of recency bias going on with him, since he's been the most active fighter during the pandemic.

Last fight he beat someone who didn't belong in Bellator, let alone the UFC.

His most notable win of his career is Buckley, and Buckley is just a massive hype train that's incredibly green.

When asked about Jacare's ground game, Holland basically said he's not worried because his coach(Travis Lutter) has put him in spots Jacare could put him in.

...good luck with that.

Anyways, I think Jacare would have to fight the worst fight of his career to lose to Holland. Possible, but I'd only play Holland at +150 or better.

In terms of jiu jitsu; Lutter>>>Jacare

A wise man once me told Lutter was the Michael Jordan of jiu jitsu.

 

[mkess101]

Dern looks fit. I think it's safe to say she is taking her career seriously now. No more missing weight by 7 lbs and fucking around during training.

 

[mkess101]

In terms of jiu jitsu; Lutter>>>Jacare

A wise man once me told Lutter was the Michael Jordan of jiu jitsu.

 

[orgazmo]

I think he has declined for sure. And his fight with Jan consisted of him holding Jan up against the fence hoping to not get his head knocked off(and he succeeded).

However I just don't rate Holland that highly. There's a lot of recency bias going on with him, since he's been the most active fighter during the pandemic.

Last fight he beat someone who didn't belong in Bellator, let alone the UFC.

His most notable win of his career is Buckley, and Buckley is just a massive hype train that's incredibly green.

When asked about Jacare's ground game, Holland basically said he's not worried because his coach(Travis Lutter) has put him in spots Jacare could put him in.

...good luck with that.

Anyways, I think Jacare would have to fight the worst fight of his career to lose to Holland. Possible, but I'd only play Holland at +150 or better.

Hey man, show some respect for the Michael Jordan of BJJ



edit: damn, beaten to the punchline

 

[mkess101]

Hey man, show some respect for the Michael Jordan of BJJ



edit: damn, beaten to the punchline

The funniest part of that was that so often announcers will just let stuff that their colleagues say slide. But Rogan could just not sit there and allow that to go unchecked. Especially because he just worships guys like Marcelhino.

Goldy: "Travis Lutter is the Michael Jordan of bjj..."
Rogan (after a brief pause where he considers whether to comment): "No, he's not"
Goldy: "He isn't?"
Rogan: "No."

And then they move on LMAO. One of the best exchanges ever for on air commentary.

 

[loller90278]

i think my reads are wrong this fight card but i don't think torres should be a -600 favorite. I can see a PTV for hughes winning via wall-n-stall and being a bit stronger than her.

I'm pretty high on hughes as well. Even if she loses this fight, i think she has a bright future in the UFC.

I might take a stab at hughes.

 

[2020Tracked]

i think my reads are wrong this fight card but i don't think torres should be a -600 favorite. I can see a PTV for hughes winning via wall-n-stall and being a bit stronger than her.

I'm pretty high on hughes as well. Even if she loses this fight, i think she has a bright future in the UFC.

I might take a stab at hughes.

Who cares who wins as long as it takes them linger than 1.5 rounds to do it

 

[loller90278]

Who cares who wins as long as it takes them linger than 1.5 rounds to do it

where you seeing that? i'm only seeing over 2.5 for -300

edit: taking a stab at hughes decision +650

 

[thehighking]

My issue with Holland is he has looked GREAT against absolutely nobody and I can't help but remember my motto two years ago was NEVER BET ON KEVIN HOLLAND. I think he looks good for a round, then finds himself in some deep shit. Jacare by sub.

Which means, if you have been paying attention at all to my recent leans, Holland will win

That's why I decided to bet on both in different parlays. I'm feeling confident about my picks so something crazy will probably happen and ruin my night, like a Junior Dos Santos submission and a Mckenzie Dern KO.

 

[mkess101]

That's why I decided to bet on both in different parlays. I'm feeling confident about my picks so something crazy will probably happen and ruin my night, like a Junior Dos Santos submission and a Mckenzie Dern KO.

Dern KO isn't that crazy. She dropped Cooper like a sack of bricks don't forget.

Dern throws heat. If she lands, she's capable of hurting other girls.

 

[Dooze]

I think Jacare has undeniably declined but it's also a big step down in competition..similarly his decline hasn't necessarily resulted in the Chuck Liddell style where he's getting sparked out by everyone.

His striking output was very low as highlighted in the last fight, but he still took the first 2 rounds in most cards (judges and media), which would be enough here given it's a 3 round fight.

Similarly, I might be misremembering but I recall him trying to clinch and takedown Jan in this fight, he couldn't manage it but did control him against the cage a bit.

I think if he gets Holland down it's just a matter of time before he gets a tap. Similarly, if he can't take Holland down for whatever reason, I don't think Holland is a big enough killer on the feet that it means Jacare is out of there. He's not been getting knocked out and though he'll be at a speed disadvantage I wouldn't say Holland has a big advantage - Jacare can still throw some power too so it's not outside the realm of possibilities that he hurts Holland on the feet.

Also, I honestly don't think we can rule out Holland trying to grapple with Jacare. It'd be ridiculous, but he takes risks and has initiated grappling exchanges when not needed to against other fighters where he's come off worse (GM3 had him in danger). I could see him panic grappling if Jacare hurts him, if he has him against the fence and Holland tries to hit a switch I think Jacare would let himself get taken down and Holland wouldn't immediately stand up) and as the fight goes on I think he could be silly enough to shoot late in rounds.

For me, Holland needs a perfect fight to win - he had to avoid the ground at all costs and fight on the outside utilizing his speed to either hurt and finish Jacare with strikes (again, Jacare hasn't been finished too often despite his advancing years) or for 10-15 minutes to win a decision.

Jacare despite being in the decline and slower than Holland is probably stronger, has a clear grappling edge and though slower, probably not at a huge disadvantage on the feet. I do think he has more paths to victory too, he. Old absolutely submit Holland, I think despite his low striking output if he lands he can probably finish Holland on the feet and I think he can wins a decision with clinch work if he can't take Holland down.

Finally I think despite the decline it's a big step up in competition for Holland and a big step down from the elite for Jacare. Holland arguably lost his SD wins to GM3 and Stewart also (I believe most of the media scored both for his opponents).

 

[thehighking]

Dern KO isn't that crazy. She dropped Cooper like a sack of bricks don't forget.

Dern throws heat. If she lands, she's capable of hurting other girls.

That better not happen...

 

[mkess101]

That better not happen...

Ha not trying to rain on your parade, but you also have the chance of her securing mount and Jandiroba being unwilling to give up her neck and Dern just pounding on her until the ref stops it. Which is a TKO.