Social Biden Ushers in the Ministry of Truth era

[terrapin]

I'm not offended. I take it as a big compliment that you go that route, as I think it reveals that you know that the actual arguments I make are good. I think in general, being a good, honest person here gets you a lot of the right kind of enemies.

I forgive you in my heart deeply. You are doing the best you can in life as a wounded human being.

 

[GtehMVP]

lol, that account should make for some great memes, always the best way to combat these far left lunatics.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

As much as I disagree with this move and find the Biden administration both incompetent, impotent and corporate status quo bootlickers, most of you guys in this thread are radicalized to the point of being brainwashed. The lines are drawn up so feverously you've lost the ability to examine anything objectively. When trolls like @Papi Chulo and posters like @cottagecheesefan are leading the charge you have to take a step back and wonder what's going on within your own party.

I really hope someone serious (political candidate) kicks the door in soon in the US and runs a platform on real issues while putting aside the culture war politics. It's rotting brains on both sides.

What are you even talking about?

You've got left wingers in this thread ushering in a government ran propaganda agency and you're pretending that right wingers are radicalized because they don't want a government ran propaganda agency?

You have zero ground to stand on here. Whether you think people are trolls or not is irrelevant. There is a reason why nearly everyone is agreeing with what they are saying and why almost no one is agreeing with you or the other left wingers. It's because you're wrong. Not because everyone else is radicalized. It's you that has become radicalized. Look at what you're defending. You're trying to make it seem like you see the entire picture, but you don't. You're here defending a radical left wing agenda. You are exactly the thing that you are debating against and the only reason why you have some sort of pretend debate going is because you're projecting exactly what you are onto other people.

The right wingers have not become more radical. You guys have. There is nothing radical about not wanting a government ran propaganda agency.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

As much as I disagree with this move and find the Biden administration both incompetent, impotent and corporate status quo bootlickers, most of you guys in this thread are radicalized to the point of being brainwashed. The lines are drawn up so feverously you've lost the ability to examine anything objectively. When trolls like @Papi Chulo and posters like @cottagecheesefan are leading the charge you have to take a step back and wonder what's going on within your own party.

I really hope someone serious (political candidate) kicks the door in soon in the US and runs a platform on real issues while putting aside the culture war politics. It's rotting brains on both sides.

“Everyone in this thread is saying people like me are brainwashed, and pointing out fake narratives I believed and likely still do despite overwhelming information suggest it is false, so you guys must be the brain washed ones!”

cry more, lmaooo

 

[Jack V Savage]

As much as I disagree with this move and find the Biden administration both incompetent, impotent and corporate status quo bootlickers, most of you guys in this thread are radicalized to the point of being brainwashed. The lines are drawn up so feverously you've lost the ability to examine anything objectively. When trolls like @Papi Chulo and posters like @cottagecheesefan are leading the charge you have to take a step back and wonder what's going on within your own party.

I really hope someone serious (political candidate) kicks the door in soon in the US and runs a platform on real issues while putting aside the culture war politics. It's rotting brains on both sides.

I don't think it's a bothsides issue. Moderate left policies in America are pretty popular, even somewhat among Republican voters. Left-wing culture-war policies are pretty unpopular. So from a political-messaging standpoint, Democrats' interest is served by focusing on policy and Republicans' interest is served by hammering on culture-war politics. And both parties, naturally, respond to their incentives in predictable ways. The media environment is also asymmetrical, with rightists in America favoring Republican-aligned media and the left favoring mainstream media (which rightists believe to be left-biased, but which at least make a serious effort to be politically neutral, even at the expense of treating matters of objective reality to be controversies that they shouldn't take sides on if Republican views are opposed to objective reality). I also think the rank personal nastiness with which we see rightists post and the refusal to engage in a serious way with the possibility that their preferred narratives are wrong is related to that difference in media consumption (this is also apparent in the exceptions--the leftists who tend to substitute personal nastiness for deliberation are the unusual ones who prefer slanted media, such as Dore, Taibbi, Hedges, etc. to mainstream stuff).

 

[Fugazy]

Which has been more effective?

Trump using twitter and socia media as his pulpit to create distrust and legitimise false narratives had a profound impact on American society. He circumvented any checks and balances, and looking from the outside it's had a devastating effect. It shattered something very fundamental. The Biden admin shooting themselves in the foot with this move only shows that they don't have any grasp on what's going on in the minds of the people outside of their own bubble. Look at how easily it's been to fuel the Orwell conspiracies and "Ministry of Truth" narratives. Not to mention, creating a board this way with all the red tape and oversight will only limit their ability to do anything. It's shitty politics and bad policy.

They are dinosaurs and can't even begin to match what Trump did, has done or might still do. I also wonder with his own social media platform called Truth Social, as the arbiter of truth with no oversight, where are the outcries of newspeek? It seems to me, whether the question is truth or free speech, neither are importantly principles as long as the "libs gets owned". It's scary honestly.

Miss me with the “libs getting owned shit”

CNN is a shit news source. It’s been proven time and time again. Literally. I don’t care where you lean politically, they fucking suck, so does FOX, I don’t care. CNN will literally lie and double down on their lies. Their slant has no checks or balances and they have no scruples when it comes to “owning the right” or whatever stupid phrase is popular now. There’s a reason why they were tanking in ratings, they are such trash they can’t even keep their base interested.

So the President was calling out the media for their bias and lies, a 1 term president, that at half the country doesn’t like and a a portion of those half though was somewhere close to Hitler.

That time is done.

As for truth social or whatever it’s called, how many people do you even know who use it? *crickets* So there’s your argument for effectiveness.

That’s no where near the same as the government deciding that it can be the arbiter of truth.

That is a situation that should worry everyone from this point forward. Not okay for the Biden admin or any other admin.

 

[Snubnoze707]

...the left favoring mainstream media (which rightists believe to be left-biased, but which at least make a serious effort to be politically neutral...

You can't be serious, are you?

 

[SKYNET]

Hedges literally had a show on an authoritarian gov't's propaganda channel.

 

[Sano]

What are you even talking about?

You've got left wingers in this thread ushering in a government ran propaganda agency and you're pretending that right wingers are radicalized because they don't want a government ran propaganda agency?

You have zero ground to stand on here. Whether you think people are trolls or not is irrelevant. There is a reason why nearly everyone is agreeing with what they are saying and why almost no one is agreeing with you or the other left wingers. It's because you're wrong. Not because everyone else is radicalized. It's you that has become radicalized. Look at what you're defending. You're trying to make it seem like you see the entire picture, but you don't. You're here defending a radical left wing agenda. You are exactly the thing that you are debating against and the only reason why you have some sort of pretend debate going is because you're projecting exactly what you are onto other people.

The right wingers have not become more radical. You guys have. There is nothing radical about not wanting a government ran propaganda agency.

You haven't read what I've been writing apparently. I don't think what the Biden admin is doing with the board is a good thing. On the contrary I've been very explicit about my dislike for it, both because they are too biased, untrustworthy and incompetent to direct any board regarding to misinformation, as well as it just furthering mistrust between voters and fueling conspiracy theories. My issue is not with you disagreeing with the board, it's with the radicalism attached to it and the complete inability to see what's happening to yourself (not necessarily you in particular).

Re-read my posts and then your reply again, and think about what I said with lines drawn not being able to view anything objectively. The idea that the Biden admin is a radical left wing administration, outside of their woke pandering, is far removed from their actual policy platform.

 

[MMAisGod]

check out this video from chris hedges on totalitarian states and how easy it is to slip into that and how he thinks that is where we are headed. he speaks a lot about the surveillance state and the need for empires to censure in order to keep support. some of you will despise hedges thought overall but this video wont offend you and its really worth the listen. he believes our empire is in the throes of collapse and gives very specific reasons why.

its very powerful. 11:03 is where he talks specifically about free speech and how the state cannot allow that and why they are passing so many acts that limit and control information.

Watched it since you recommended. It was pretty on point imo. Strongly agree with the parts about historical amnesia and the impact that has, and I know I myself have lacked empathy due to my hard-work path to success vs seeing some around me who didn't put in the same effort (so that individual desire vs community responsibility part was very onpoint imo). And I thought the reasoning behind the updates the last few years, especially towards the end made a lot of sense. Good arguments there.

 

[Papi Chulo]

What are you even talking about?

You've got left wingers in this thread ushering in a government ran propaganda agency and you're pretending that right wingers are radicalized because they don't want a government ran propaganda agency?

You have zero ground to stand on here. Whether you think people are trolls or not is irrelevant. There is a reason why nearly everyone is agreeing with what they are saying and why almost no one is agreeing with you or the other left wingers. It's because you're wrong. Not because everyone else is radicalized. It's you that has become radicalized. Look at what you're defending. You're trying to make it seem like you see the entire picture, but you don't. You're here defending a radical left wing agenda. You are exactly the thing that you are debating against and the only reason why you have some sort of pretend debate going is because you're projecting exactly what you are onto other people.

The right wingers have not become more radical. You guys have. There is nothing radical about not wanting a government ran propaganda agency.

Once a person is demoralized (corruption of one's morals), they cannot see facts in front of them.

 

[Rob Battisti]

The purpose of free speech is to allow truth to prevail. The best way to allow truth to prevail is to allow the federal government to tell you what the truth is.

Imagine believing both of those things and not seeing how they are incongruent.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Miss me with the “libs getting owned shit”

CNN is a shit news source. It’s been proven time and time again. Literally. I don’t care where you lean politically, they fucking suck, so does FOX, I don’t care. CNN will literally lie and double down on their lies. Their slant has no checks or balances and they have no scruples when it comes to “owning the right” or whatever stupid phrase is popular now. There’s a reason why they were tanking in ratings, they are such trash they can’t even keep their base interested.

So the President was calling out the media for their bias and lies, a 1 term president, that at half the country doesn’t like and a a portion of those half though was somewhere close to Hitler.

That time is done.

As for truth social or whatever it’s called, how many people do you even know who use it? *crickets* So there’s your argument for effectiveness.

That’s no where near the same as the government deciding that it can be the arbiter of truth.

That is a situation that should worry everyone from this point forward. Not okay for the Biden admin or any other admin.

He mentioned me specifically, so I'll comment on this. It is the typical, oh fox news this and conservatives now care about that, followed by some word salad blah blah blah. He mentioned me as one of the most radical, but I rarely post anything Fox, unless tucker has a good rant. But I try to post liberal sources and then give my own point of view, and specifically say stuff like "oh this isn't fox reporting this, or newsmax, etc, this is CNN, or this is the hill or axios. That is how you beat them at their own game, then they can't deflect, which then leads to personal attacks.

I feel I post pretty objective info and then give my own opinion, which may seem hyper partisan and I also like to be sarcastic sometimes. People are free to comment on the info I post, and we shall see what narrative wins out, I generally back up my points pretty well.

Regardless, I do think Trump did great, and in retrospect has been proven right on a lot of things people faulted him for, including relying on Russian energy, etc, how relevant is that? I also approve of how the MAGA movement is taking over the party, and new strong leadership like Desantis and Youngkin (channeling their inner Trump), I comment on this all the time. I think Trump did a great job, just tarnished because of all the false narratives that were created about him.

Yet he is like, "just look at your own party", meanwhile their party has stomped out the voice of the party in Sanders twice, tried to install Hillary,and now did install this joke of a president in Biden, and is now overran by the super woke. I think our party is doing quite well.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The purpose of free speech is to allow truth to prevail. The best way to allow truth to prevail is to allow the federal government to tell you what the truth is.

Imagine believing both of those things and not seeing how they are incongruent.

Once again, your argument is completely reliant on misleading framing. My view is that the best way to allow truth to prevail is to allow everyone to tell the truth to the best of their ability. What do you find objectionable about that?

 

[Rob Battisti]

Once again, your argument is completely reliant on misleading framing. My view is that the best way to allow truth to prevail is to allow everyone to tell the truth to the best of their ability. What do you find objectionable about that?

Let me start with a question before I answer yours.

Is the federal government, at all times and with any political power in office, completely altruistic?

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

just take note of who those people are and never take them seriously ever again. They already are the same people that bought into pretty much every fake narrative the news and establishment has created for years.

russia hoax

Ukraine impeachment/hunter Biden laptop

Gov whiteners kidnapping

Everyone needs force COVID vaccine and Wuhan lap theory is fake

CRT is not a real thing and parents need to be watched by FBI

The election was free and fair and 1/6 was an actual insurrection

BLM riots were peaceful and White domestic terrorists are the biggest threat to the population when there is record crime and homicides from mostly by non-whites

black people are too stupid to get an ID and sign their name so we need federal take over of elections to ensure we mail out millions of ballots, including extra ones cause cleaning voter rolls is racist and we should count them all without needing an ID or signature

it goes on and on

and the crazy woman the out in charge? Well she believed and pushed all these fake narratives and disinformation too. She is like the epitome of #blueAnon

yup I still see you’re still pushing the “russia hoax” aren’t you tired of lying about this stuff yet.


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump campaign's interactions with Russian intelligence services during the 2016 presidential election posed a "grave" counterintelligence threat, a Senate panel concluded Tuesday as it detailed how associates of Donald Trump had regular contact with Russians and expected to benefit from the Kremlin's help.

The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump's behalf. It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and says other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin's aid, particularly by maximizing the impact of the disclosure of Democratic emails hacked by Russian intelligence officers.

 

[sickc0d3r]

I think there can be arguments against the idea on the grounds that it's unlikely to be effective (though I think that a lot of people are misunderstanding what's actually being discussed), that misinformation is not generally as harmful as people think (@Khabib Khanate made this point, and it's good, IMO), and even that it could be misused. It's specifically the idea that it's some kind of attack on freedom of speech that I think is hysterical.

Generally, rightists misunderstand freedom of speech on two grounds: 1. People who disagree with you speaking is not a violation of your freedom of speech. It goes both ways. 2. The purpose of freedom of speech is to enable truth to prevail. Fundamentally, if one doesn't believe in objective reality or that anyone is engaged in trying to find it, the basis is gone. Also, people are invoking Orwell while having zero understanding of his thought. As I pointed out, he believed that freedom of speech was only possible in a leftist regime, and he explicitly said that his main purpose for writing was to advance socialism, fight totalitarianism, and (this one is important) counter lies.

I believe it can be effective, and I hope it will be, specifically in the case of smugglers duping people into flooding the border.
There’s nothing you said that I disagree with, though. I would just add that, for honest people, it usually comes down to trust. And it is certainly lacking for whomever is on the other side here in the USA.

Regarding Orwell, he’s sadly been reduced to a meme for the idiots who want to trash anything Biden or any democrat does at this point. To be fair, the dems don’t help themselves with messaging. “Disinformation Governance Board”? Seriously? Had Trump said he was going to eradicate child trafficking with his new “Eagle-Fang Board Of Freedom” we’d obviously see different reactions. Look at Desantis. He’s simply fighting the sexualization of children by trying to get back at Disney for saying shit he disagrees with. The messaging and, honestly, full compliance of everyone on the right these days, makes everything easier for those guys.

 

[brothir]

Is the federal government, at all times and with any political power in office, completely altruistic?

The answer is obviously not, but it's an inane question because the logic of the answer still doesn't lead to any meaningful limitations. Is your argument that, for instance, federal prisons should all be dismantled because the federal government is not perfect? How about taxes?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Let me start with a question before I answer yours.

Is the federal government, at all times and with any political power in office, completely altruistic?

What an odd question. Of course not.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The answer is obviously not, but it's an inane question because the logic of the answer still doesn't lead to any meaningful limitations. Is your argument that, for instance, federal prisons should all be dismantled because the federal government is not perfect? How about taxes?

Or generally, do people or institutions need to be completely altruistic to be allowed to speak?