A draw my a**

[Eater of Souls]

Last night in the heat of the moment, I would have 100% agreed with you. That 10-8 in the 5th seemed fucking outrageous, and I would have called for that judge to lose an arm as well as his judging privileges.

Now, the following morning, with a good night's sleep and a clear head?

I still agree. That was fucked up.

Same.

 

[Schoolboy Q]

Valentina is lucky she didn’t get another L, no rematch.

 

[Eater of Souls]

All the people scoring round four and saying it could go either way? Why not give that a 10-10? I did.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Im too old to accept these things, I only a few completely egregious cards from the early cards, including PRIDE, but this shit happens almost every weekend now sir.

smh.

Stop with the "old" shit, junior. Ya' givin' me a fuckin' complex.

 

[StonedLemur]

Stop with the "old" shit, junior. Ya' givin' me a fuckin' complex.

Well get younger you old coot lol.

 

[oscerthegrouch]

It was 2-2 going into the 5th.. Shevchenko was winning the 1st half of the 5th but got pummeled the last 2 mins. How anyone can have a problem with a draw is baffling..

Actually thought they'd give it to Grasso since it was a very pro Grasso crows obviously.

i agree but mostof problem is with 10-8 that last round in 5th.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Well get younger you old coot lol.

I would if I could. Recovery from training fucking blows. I now realize why my grandfather complained about going down stairs more than going up them. Amazing the shit that hurts when you are pushing 60.

FWIW, I scored it:
10-9 Shev
10-9 Grasso
10-9 Shev
And I still feel the last two rounds are too close to call so they remain a 10-10 each in my book. Going to re-watch it a fourth time later today because I dislike when I am indecisive. Working on the garage until then.

 

[StonedLemur]

I would if I could. Recovery from training fucking blows. I now realize why my grandfather complained about going down stairs more than going up them. Amazing the shit that hurts when you are pushing 60.

FWIW, I scored it:
10-9 Shev
10-9 Grasso
10-9 Shev
And I still feel the last two rounds are too close to call so they remain a 10-10 each in my book. Going to re-watch it a fourth time later today because I dislike when I am indecisive. Working on the garage until then.

I know exactly what you mean about down the stairs sir, I've had extensive knee surgery on my right knee, and Im pretty sure I'm gonna need another one, as I fucked it up again moving gravel down a steep hill in my yard.

 

[Safton]

I won't go into full thought as I am absolutely exhausted, but for 3:30 of round 5 Shevchenko dominates the stand up, and Alexa has 1:30 of ground control with a few really good shots, and one decent sub attempt.

In no way should that 1:30 negate the 3:30 unless there was real damage done which there wasn't.

Alexa got punched in the face for 3/4 of the round...a few ground strikes, and a decent sub attempt does not trump that.

Yes, Alexa was absolutely getting outhustled in the stand-up early but it's not like she wasn't landing anything at all and she never got rocked, either. In those final 1:30, she threatened the sub but more importantly had Valentina's back landing some nasty GnP which at one point had Valentina on her side, shelling up. Shevchenko did well to fight the hands during the choke attempts and avoid eating anything too massive on the mat, but what Grasso did in those final 1.5 minutes was far more impactful than anything Valentina did to Alexa in the minutes prior on the feet. Think of it this way: at any point that Valentina was out-striking Alexa early, did you ever think she was going to finish the fight? Because I didn't. I thought -- and hoped -- that she would coast to an easy Decision at her rate, but she never gave me any inclination that she would or could hurt Grasso to get her out of there. Conversely, for those final 1.5 minutes Valentina was effectively in survival mode: defensive and reactive, attempting to prevent a fight-ending sequence. Duration is only one scoring metric, after all.

I think Round 5 was close, don't get me wrong. But I favor the immediacy of Grasso's work and its potential to stop the bout over Shevchenko's steadiness and cumulative impact -- a notion which is supported in the Rules. 10-8 worthy? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But I think Grasso did enough -- largely because it wasn't just "empty ground control" (i.e. Grasso pancaking her in mount or side control and not doing anything). For what little it's worth, 90% of 1154 fans who have submitted scorecards to MMADecisions saw it the same way. Even all the media outlets I bothered to look at who scored the fight (for or against Grasso) say they saw Round 4 as the swing round, not Round 5.

 

[StonedLemur]

Yes, Alexa was absolutely getting outhustled in the stand-up early but it's not like she wasn't landing anything at all and she never got rocked, either. In those final 1:30, she threatened the sub but more importantly had Valentina's back landing some nasty GnP which at one point had Valentina on her side, shelling up. Shevchenko did well to fight the hands during the choke attempts and avoid eating anything too massive on the mat, but what Grasso did in those final 1.5 minutes was far more impactful than anything Valentina did to Alexa in the minutes prior on the feet. Think of it this way: at any point that Valentina was out-striking Alexa early, did you ever think she was going to finish the fight? Because I didn't. I thought -- and hoped -- that she would coast to an easy Decision at her rate, but she never gave me any inclination that she would or could hurt Grasso to get her out of there. Conversely, for those final 1.5 minutes Valentina was effectively in survival mode: defensive and reactive, attempting to prevent a fight-ending sequence. Duration is only one scoring metric, after all.

I think Round 5 was close, don't get me wrong. But I favor the immediacy of Grasso's work and its potential to stop the bout over Shevchenko's steadiness and cumulative impact -- a notion which is supported in the Rules. 10-8 worthy? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But I think Grasso did enough -- largely because it wasn't just empty "ground control". For what little it's worth, 90% of 1154 fans who have submitted scorecards to MMADecisions saw it the same way. Even all the media outlets I bothered to look at who scored the fight (for or against Grasso) say they saw Round 4 as the swing round, not Round 5.

Its not like she took Shev down and hunted a sub sir....she literally fell into it.
Otherwise she was getting beat pretty handily.

If Shev had "this much more power" she'd knock everyone out, but she don't so people can be wishy-washy.

They don't do that to my other favorite fighter Max Holloway who doesn't have big punching power.

Either way this type of bad judging happened every once in awhile back in the day, now it feels like every weekend and its flat out unacceptable sir.

 

[Safton]

Its not like she took Shev down and hunted a sub sir....she literally fell into it.
Otherwise she was getting beat pretty handily.

The Rules don't really make this distinction.

Effective grappling is assessed by the successful executions and impactful/effective result(s)coming from: takedown(s), submission attempt(s), achieving an advantageous position(s) and reversal(s).

Grasso achieved an advantageous position -- one which was scored as a reversal by UFC Statisticians (which I think is correct considering she clearly played a role in Valentina's takedown attempt failing, Val didn't slip on a banana peel and it's disingenuous to make that sort of implication). Would it be more impressive from a judging perspective if Grasso had blast-doubled her across the cage to achieve that position? Yeah, sure, but it's not like the Rules say "Yeah but if a fighter does XYZ due to luck or their opponent doing something silly it doesn't count as much!!"

If Shev had "this much more power" she'd knock everyone out, but she don't so people can be wishy-washy.

They don't do that to my other favorite fighter Max Holloway who doesn't have big punching power.

I mean they sorta do, though? Max has always had a vocal contingent of silly people criticizing him for being a "pillow-fisted chin bully who can't bust a grape" or some such. I mean he outstruck Dustin Poirier in a lot of their rounds on the numbers, but the difference in punching power was apparent and the judges responded to it. I think Holloway actually has underrated power when he finds his timing and sits down on his punches, but that's neither here nor there.

In this case, Valentina favors volume and accuracy with her punches -- she's never been much of a power-puncher. Her other weapons: kicks, knees, elbows, and offensive grappling have generally been what got the job done. Fighters work within their limitations at the end of the day and that applies even to scoring. They don't get a handicap based on their potential and what they could do with 10% more power. Alexa isn't known for being some powerhouse either, but she had the more impactful moments in this particular round if you ask me.

Either way this type of bad judging happened every once in awhile back in the day, now it feels like every weekend and its flat out unacceptable sir.

The only part of this outcome I personally consider to be bad judging was the hilarious 10-8 in Round 5. 48-47 for either girl would have been entirely defensible IMO, with Round 4 being the swing round. I guess one who feels particularly strongly about Shevchenko taking Round 5 (as you do) and also believes she edged Round 4 could make an argument for 49-46 Val... and I would still consider that a better scorecard than Bell's Draw.

 

[StonedLemur]

The Rules don't really make this distinction.



Grasso achieved an advantageous position -- one which was scored as a reversal by UFC Statisticians (which I think is correct considering she clearly played a role in Valentina's takedown attempt failing, Val didn't slip on a banana peel and it's disingenuous to make that sort of implication). Would it be more impressive from a judging perspective if Grasso had blast-doubled her across the cage to achieve that position? Yeah, sure, but it's not like the Rules say "Yeah but if a fighter does XYZ due to luck or their opponent doing something silly it doesn't count as much!!"



I mean they sorta do, though? Max has always had a vocal contingent of silly people criticizing him for being a "pillow-fisted chin bully who can't bust a grape" or some such. I mean he outstruck Dustin Poirier in a lot of their rounds on the numbers, but the difference in punching power was apparent and the judges responded to it. I think Holloway actually has underrated power when he finds his timing and sits down on his punches, but that's neither here nor there.

In this case, Valentina favors volume and accuracy with her punches -- she's never been much of a power-puncher. Her other weapons: kicks, knees, elbows, and offensive grappling have generally been what got the job done. Fighters work within their limitations at the end of the day and that applies even to scoring. They don't get a handicap based on their potential and what they could do with 10% more power. Alexa isn't known for being some powerhouse either, but she had the more impactful moments in this particular round if you ask me.



The only part of this outcome I personally consider to be bad judging was the hilarious 10-8 in Round 5. 48-47 for either girl would have been entirely defensible IMO, with Round 4 being the swing round. I guess one who feels particularly strongly about Shevchenko taking Round 5 (as you do) and also believes she edged Round 4 could make an argument for 49-46 Val... and I would still consider that a better scorecard than Bell's Draw.

They don't shit on Max on the score cards.
Imagine Max beating someone for 3 1/2 mins and then they hit him a few times on the ground and never get close to finishing him in the 5th round...nobody gives that round to the other guy.

Taking someone down and falling into it are not the same.
She was never close to stopping that fight with strikes or the sub "attempt".

 

[Haliacmon]

Yeah the issue here tbh is that im sure the ufc thinks that latinos in general are just all mexicans lol. South Americans and even Central Americans are quite different in many aspects when it comes to Mexican culture.

yep thats right, I´m from southamerica we even dont see mexicans that much as culturaly close they have another mindset for many things, plus they always get some "extra" help in whatever sport especially MMA and boxing, I´m not putting down mexicans I got a couple mex friends myself but UFC thinks they are the whole latino market, add up all southamericans except Brazilians thats a huge market, as a matter of fact many of us feel closer and cheer up for brazilians more than mexican fighters

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Valentina won that fight 3-2 ffs, whatever with these fuckin judges.


Edit: 10-8 for the 5th round for Grasso?
Gtfoh

I think it was a very good decision, sir.

 

[BROWNPRIDE]

I’ll change my name to “ white pride “ and go around blindly defending everyone that is white ……wouldn’t that make me the coolest ?
I remember when mods did their job and this place was fun

Do it if you have any balls or integrity. You’re all bark and no bit sucka.

 

[BROWNPRIDE]

yep thats right, I´m from southamerica we even dont see mexicans that much as culturaly close they have another mindset for many things, plus they always get some "extra" help in whatever sport especially MMA and boxing, I´m not putting down mexicans I got a couple mex friends myself but UFC thinks they are the whole latino market, add up all southamericans except Brazilians thats a huge market, as a matter of fact many of us feel closer and cheer up for brazilians more than mexican fighters

What part of South America exactly are you from?

 

[StonedLemur]

I think it was a very good decision, sir.

I respectfully disagree sir.

 

[pātrēärkē]

No draw, no 10-8, but Grasso won that 3-2. The panic wrestling kickboxer did not impress

 

[AstralPanda]

Same.

Had us in the first half ngl

 

[x9lonewolf]

I thought that a draw was good or Valentina edged it 3-2. However, the judge that scored that last round a 10-8 is a fucking joke. Valentina was tuning up Grasso with the jab for 60% of that round. Then fucks up her takedown and gets put into a really bad position. That’s not a 10-8.