Who is the Greatest Champ Champ in MMA History Across All Orgs ?

BOTTICELLI

BOTTICELLI

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Here is a complete list of two weight class champions in MMA history. Who is the best of the best?

Randy Couture
Dan Henderson
BJ Penn
Joe Warren
David Branch
Connor McGregor
George St. Pierre
Martin Ngyuen
Aung La Nsang
Daniel Cormier
Amanda Nunes
Ryan Bader
Henry Cedujo
Patrico Freire
Renier De Ridder
Christian Lee
Jon Jones
Anatoly Malkin
Larissa Pacheco
Alex Periera




??????????????????????
 
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The answer is actually BJ Penn and if you disagree, you are objectively wrong.

He was inarguably the number 1 LW at one point and when he beat Hughes, he was inarguably the number 1 WW.

Jones didn't beat the reigning, lineal HW champ. Randy was legit HW champ but was never the proven 'man' at LHW because top talent was split with Pride - as proven when Rampage defeated Chuck (who beat Randy). Hendo lost both of his UFC 'unification' fights at LHW and MW proving he wasn't number 1.

GSP cherry picked a one-eyed man who nobody believes was actually the best MW and then ducked Whittaker. Alex is only a semi-legit champ, as the UFC has navigated him away from grapplers and he won the LHW belt that was vacant. The LHW belt is a joke, with multiple champs vacating.

Shillmier has always lived in Jones' shadow. Cejudo lost the DJ fight and then beat a random guy for the vacant title who would then go on an epic losing streak. He only defended a washed up old man in Cruz who had no business getting a title shot in the first place.

The other guys fight in bum leagues and aren't worth mentioning.

Strange to think old mate Tippy Toes was the most legit double champ. But life is strange. Only guy to ever be clear cut the best in two divisions.
 
Dr Fong said:
The answer is actually BJ Penn and if you disagree, you are objectively wrong.

He was inarguably the number 1 LW at one point and when he beat Hughes, he was inarguably the number 1 WW.

Jones didn't beat the reigning, lineal HW champ. Randy was legit HW champ but was never the proven 'man' at LHW because top talent was split with Pride - as proven when Rampage defeated Chuck (who beat Randy). Hendo lost both of his UFC 'unification' fights at LHW and MW proving he wasn't number 1.

GSP cherry picked a one-eyed man who nobody believes was actually the best MW and then ducked Whittaker. Alex is only a semi-legit champ, as the UFC has navigated him away from grapplers and he won the LHW belt that was vacant. The LHW belt is a joke, with multiple champs vacating.

Shillmier has always lived in Jones' shadow. Cejudo lost the DJ fight and then beat a random guy for the vacant title who would then go on an epic losing streak. He only defended a washed up old man in Cruz who had no business getting a title shot in the first place.

The other guys fight in bum leagues and aren't worth mentioning.

Strange to think old mate Tippy Toes was the most legit double champ. But life is strange. Only guy to ever be clear cut the best in two divisions.
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BJ Penn's sample size at WW is miniscule though. Yes, he beat the UFC champion but literally left the UFC afterward and basically went to just beat up the Gracies and a guy he assumed was some McDojo can.

I get conventional wisdom is that if you beat the #1 guy that should mean you're the #1 guy...but fighting really isn't like that, and never was.

It might still be Penn by default for a lot of the reasons you stated, though I'd say Nunes did a bit more.
 
KowboyMMA said:
Hard to beat Randy... Heavyweight Champ , Light Heavyweight Champ , Heavyweight Champ.... and pretty sure he had a successful defense for each.
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Doctor Grudge said:
BJ Penn's sample size at WW is miniscule though. Yes, he beat the UFC champion but literally left the UFC afterward and basically went to just beat up the Gracies and a guy he assumed was some McDojo can.

I get conventional wisdom is that if you beat the #1 guy that should mean you're the #1 guy...but fighting really isn't like that, and never was.

It might still be Penn by default for a lot of the reasons you stated, though I'd say Nunes did a bit more.
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The only guys who have had sustained, championship-level success in multiple weight classes are Hendo, Shillmier and to a lesser extent Randy.

But Hendo had the opportunity to unify both of his titles and lost both times, clearly disqualifying him. And Shillmier had always been Jones' bridesmaid.

Randy would be my number 2 after BJ.

Remember that Hughes beat GSP after he lost to BJ and before GSP and himself got their wins over Penn. There was simply no question that Hughes was the best WW on earth at the time when BJ got the finish over him. And that was after establishing himself as the undisputed best LW when he beat Gomi (and reinforcing it with his later LW title run).

No other guy has such an unproblematic claim to being at one point the number 1 guy in two divisions.
 
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dc007 said:
Jones because he beats all of them
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If the discussion was 'best fighter' then it would just say that. And I would agree.

But Jones is not nor ever has been the lineal HW champ. That's Francis. Francis is the HW king until proven otherwise. You can't be the best ever champ-champ by winning a vacant title in your only fight in that division while the real king of your division is still active.
 
Dr Fong said:
If the discussion was 'best fighter' then it would just say that. And I would agree.

But Jones is not nor ever has been the lineal HW champ. That's Francis. Francis is the HW king until proven otherwise. You can't be the best ever champ-champ by winning a vacant title in your only fight in that division while the real king of your division is still active.
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Francis had his chance to stay for it but didn't. No disrespect. He did awesome vs Fury but you can't just say he, with all the holes in his game be suddenly the guy who beats Jones. I'd bet the house on Jones but I'd love to see the fight.
 
dc007 said:
Francis had his chance to stay for it but didn't. No disrespect. He did awesome vs Fury but you can't just say he, with all the holes in his game be suddenly the guy who beats Jones. I'd bet the house on Jones but I'd love to see the fight.
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And Jones had the opportunity to not sit out for 3 years, give interviews talking about how he was pricing himself out of the Francis fight because he feared getting KOd and then mysteriously appear the instant Francis leaves.

The amount of mental hoops someone has to jump through to think Francis was the one avoiding the fight is impressive, particularly since Jones is now openly avoiding Aspinall too. And Francis has been vindicated that he was making a sound career decision to leave.

I think Jones would beat Francis. I think Jones would fight Francis for 'Deontay Wilder money'. But I also know Jones is terrified of losing to Francis because he explicitly told us that.
 
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