International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Rational Poster]

Nope. It is possible for more restraint to be shown by Israel.


You think it's more plausible to forcibly relocate 2 million fucking people. Before it's possible to slow the rate of dropping bombs?

Seriously........ and you're the rational poster?


And you're telling me I only have two options?.....
Dude....... you're insane or a brilliant troll

It is an active war zone. There is no restraint being shown to the IDF, is there? Why should they risk their lives for the sake of the people attacking them and supporting the attackers?

Fuck that. These are conscripts being forced into this.

I never said the relocation should be forcible either. I'm quite certain that if given the opportunity and provided transport they would be climbing over each other to get out, just like they were climbing over each other to get out of Gaza city.

The actual problem here is no one actual gives a fuck about the Palestinians to take them in even if the arrangements were made.

 

[SammyPops]

American leadership, Republican and Democratic have always been Zionist in their belief that Israel has a right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people. Did you mean something else when you said Zionist control?

I mean that American leadership has traditionally leaned pro-Israel and supported the pro-Israel narrative b/c of powerful zionist groups such as AIPAC, American jews in powerful places in hollywood and finance e.g. jewish hedge fund managers demanding names and to never hire pro-Palestinian students or AIPAC spending $100M to beat 10 dems in the primaries and so much more.

Think of Chapelle's SNL monologue.

I think this support, narrative, and influence/power has not been challenged in 70 years until now.

So yes I believe American hurts its own interest to benefit Israel, and you need look no further than recent UNSC resolutions.

And no I do not think 'the loos' control the world.

 

[Koya]

Things were quite a lot more peaceful before the Palestinians started yet another war with Israel even with those guys in charge.

Before the genocide ? Oh yeah. Still it wasn't peaceful at all for palestinians, but you like to use that smokescreen :

2022 Among Deadliest Years for Palestinians in West Bank, Middle East Peace Process Coordinator Tells Security Council

2022 Among Deadliest Years for Palestinians in West Bank, Middle East Peace Process Coordinator Tells Security Council - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Peacekeeping and Peacebuilding and Protection and Human Rights; published on 28 Oct 2022 by UN SC

reliefweb.int

Timeline of recorder israeli killings and assaults from August 2022 to February 2023 :
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/timeline-crises-palestine

August 2023 : Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks -

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks

Recent months have seen some of the worst ever scenes of settler violence in the occupied West Bank.

www.bbc.com

June 2023, administrative annexation of the west bank is done : https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-annexation-west-bank-has-already-begun

Israeli government takes major step toward West Bank annexation

A controversial measure grants Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a staunch supporter of Greater Israel, unprecedented powers to advance controversial settlement expansion in the West Bank.

www.lemonde.fr

A little story from February 2023 :

"The settlers attacked our house, they smashed the windows and burned my nephew's cars and trucks. They tried to break into my car showroom and set it on fire," said Abdel Nasser al-Junaidi, speaking outside his home.
He described how he had rushed his children up to the rooftop to try to keep them safe.
"The army did nothing to protect us. It supported the settlers and protected them. The shooting was from both settlers and soldiers. We were terrified. What happened was a horrific and barbaric attack," said Mr al-Junaidi.
"There were about 30 masked settlers carrying pistols who were destroying the house… The moment we entered the house, they discovered us, threw stones at us and broke my brother's shoulder.
"I shouted at the soldiers to protect the children and prevent the settlers from frightening them, but the soldiers responded by shooting at me and shouting at me to stay at home," said Mr al-Domadi, who eventually managed to ensure his children were safely in another part of the building.
"The worst thing is what the kids experienced - the terror and the panic they felt. Afterwards, they were trembling in fear and sheltering in my lap, begging me to stay beside them."
The Israeli army has defended its handling of the violence but a military official said, "The wisdom of the deployment could be challenged."

Hawara West Bank: 'What happened was horrific and barbaric'

Residents in the occupied West Bank area tell the BBC a mob went on an hours-long rampage.

www.bbc.com

 

[Anewt]

It is an active war zone. There is no restraint being shown to the IDF, is there? Why should they risk their lives for the sake of the people attacking them and supporting the attackers?

Fuck that. These are conscripts being forced into this.

I never said the relocation should be forcible either. I'm quite certain that if given the opportunity and provided transport they would be climbing over each other to get out, just like they were climbing over each other to get out of Gaza city.

There would be a lot willing to flee... hell there were at the start when they were unable to sadly.

Did I say the idf should risk themselves? No. I said " slow the rate of dropping bombs " but that to you is a impossibility. It cannot even be considered. Not the slightest.... you can discuss mass relocation forced relocation. Occupation , but not slowing the destruction....... Therefore you are limited to 2 choices. Relocation or mass death for you.

Realistically you've stepped away from " forced relocation " which is a positive. But I have to ask... let me guess who choose to remain will still be acceptable collateral. Probably deemed combatant because " they had the chance to flee "


Top tip. If you tell me to leave my home or our military will probably kill you.... its still pretty forcible

Never try the ultimatum trying to get someone to say they advocate for forced relocation or mass death... simply because you yourself do

 

[Rational Poster]

There would be a lot willing to flee... hell there were at the start when they were unable to sadly.

Did I say the idf should risk themselves? No. I said " slow the rate of dropping bombs " but that to you is a impossibility. It cannot even be considered. Not the slightest.... you can discuss mass relocation forced relocation. Occupation , but not slowing the destruction....... Therefore you are limited to 2 choices. Relocation or mass death for you.

Realistically you've stepped away from " forced relocation " which is a positive. But I have to ask... let me guess who choose to remain will still be acceptable collateral. Probably deemed combatant because " they had the chance to flee "


Top tip. If you tell me to leave my home or our military will probably kill you.... its still pretty forcible

Never try the ultimatum trying to get someone to say they advocate for forced relocation or mass death... simply because you yourself do

I've never advocated for forced anything, you're being completely disingenuous. All I've ever talked about are ways to actual end the conflict and work toward a lasting peace. The Palestinians have raised the issue to war, and I'm quite alright with allowing Israeli finish the war if can lead to an actual lasting peace in the region.

The military will probably kill them because they're in a war zone and it's not going to stop being a war zone until the war has been completed which includes the total surrender of Hamas, dismantling of their military infrastructure, and the recovery of all hostages or their remains. This is going to take literal years even if there was no one shooting back at the Israelis. The only logical solution is to remove civilians from the area. It's not an ultimatum, it's a solution.

Pro tip: If you don't want an advanced military attacking you, do not provoke them by launching decades of attacks and abducting their civilians.

 

[Rational Poster]

Before the genocide ? Oh yeah. Still it wasn't peaceful at all for palestinians, but you like to use that smokescreen :

2022 Among Deadliest Years for Palestinians in West Bank, Middle East Peace Process Coordinator Tells Security Council

2022 Among Deadliest Years for Palestinians in West Bank, Middle East Peace Process Coordinator Tells Security Council - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Peacekeeping and Peacebuilding and Protection and Human Rights; published on 28 Oct 2022 by UN SC

reliefweb.int

Timeline of recorder israeli killings and assaults from August 2022 to February 2023 :
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/timeline-crises-palestine

August 2023 : Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks -

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks

Recent months have seen some of the worst ever scenes of settler violence in the occupied West Bank.

www.bbc.com

June 2023, administrative annexation of the west bank is done : https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-annexation-west-bank-has-already-begun

Israeli government takes major step toward West Bank annexation

A controversial measure grants Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a staunch supporter of Greater Israel, unprecedented powers to advance controversial settlement expansion in the West Bank.

www.lemonde.fr

A little story from February 2023 :

"The settlers attacked our house, they smashed the windows and burned my nephew's cars and trucks. They tried to break into my car showroom and set it on fire," said Abdel Nasser al-Junaidi, speaking outside his home.
He described how he had rushed his children up to the rooftop to try to keep them safe.
"The army did nothing to protect us. It supported the settlers and protected them. The shooting was from both settlers and soldiers. We were terrified. What happened was a horrific and barbaric attack," said Mr al-Junaidi.
"There were about 30 masked settlers carrying pistols who were destroying the house… The moment we entered the house, they discovered us, threw stones at us and broke my brother's shoulder.
"I shouted at the soldiers to protect the children and prevent the settlers from frightening them, but the soldiers responded by shooting at me and shouting at me to stay at home," said Mr al-Domadi, who eventually managed to ensure his children were safely in another part of the building.
"The worst thing is what the kids experienced - the terror and the panic they felt. Afterwards, they were trembling in fear and sheltering in my lap, begging me to stay beside them."
The Israeli army has defended its handling of the violence but a military official said, "The wisdom of the deployment could be challenged."

Hawara West Bank: 'What happened was horrific and barbaric'

Residents in the occupied West Bank area tell the BBC a mob went on an hours-long rampage.

www.bbc.com

Israeli settlers are bad.

But not as bad as 8 decades of terrorism and obstinance to all negotiation.

Palestinian obstinance has cultivated Israeli extremists.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Funny how the title will stay "Hamas launch suprise attack" even after 100K gazans will have been killed. In the meantime there's a Russia/Ukraine megathread not a "Russia launches suprise attack on Ukraine".

Not biased at all

It wasn’t a surprise. Ukraine knew it was coming and was seeking international intervention before it happened. It’s ironic too because the guy you’re accusing of being biased is very anti Russian in those threads

You’re reading too much into it. It’s just the same thread title from the first thread that was made on October 7th

 

[Anewt]

I've never advocated for forced anything, you're being completely disingenuous.

oh you're being disingenuous as hades with that. Nice attempt

Here's my post.

Fuck that. I'd never advocate for forced relocation . The hell with that

So then you advocate for the continued rate of collateral death as Israel pursues the war against Hamas and dismantling their military capability in Gaza and recovering the hostages.

You can't have it both ways.

You don't get to force me into advocating for forced relocation or mass death because you think it's the only way. Christ your arrogant

I mean, those are your options. Collateral death is unavoidable in the current context. If you want to see a lower rate of death than the civilians will have to be moved from the area. If you don't want the civilians to move from the area, there will continue to be collateral death.

Dunno man ... that reads precisely like you providing me two options. I mean.... " those are your options ". " you can't have it both ways "

Both my posts state clearly. Forced relocation ... you clearly state " those are your options "


Fuck talk about disingenuous

 

[Rational Poster]

oh you're being disingenuous as hades with that. Nice attempt

Here's my post.










Dunno man ... that reads precisely like you providing me two options. I mean.... " those are your options ". " you can't have it both ways "

Both my posts state clearly. Forced relocation ... you clearly state " those are your options "


Fuck talk about disingenuous

You disingenuously shoehorned the "forced" bit yourself, I never said that in any version of this thread.

You can't have it both ways though, that's true.

You can either get civilians out of the combat zone or suffer the results of collateral death while the war carriers on.

 

[Samjj]

I mean that American leadership has traditionally leaned pro-Israel and supported the pro-Israel narrative b/c of powerful zionist groups such as AIPAC, American jews in powerful places in hollywood and finance e.g. jewish hedge fund managers demanding names and to never hire pro-Palestinian students or AIPAC spending $100M to beat 10 dems in the primaries and so much more.

Think of Chapelle's SNL monologue.

I think this support, narrative, and influence/power has not been challenged in 70 years until now.

So yes I believe American hurts its own interest to benefit Israel, and you need look no further than recent UNSC resolutions.

And no I do not think 'the loos' control the world.

So to summarize, you think there is a disproportionately powerful Jewish minority population with mostly malinfluence for U.S. interests.

The majority of American Zionists are Christians, fyi.

 

[Anewt]

You disingenuously shoehorned the "forced" bit yourself, I never said that in any version of this thread.

You can't have it both ways though, that's true.

You can either get civilians out of the combat zone or suffer the results of collateral death while the war carriers on.

You're being disingenuous as hades. I "shoehorned" it in disingenuously by clearly making it a focal point of my post ..... twice. Which once again .... you directly responded to. Twice. If you are telling me you weren't responding to what I actually wrote just your version in your head again....... well I actually believe that lol. But it's most definitely not me attempting to be disingenuous .

Once again I don't have to have it either way. That's a you thing. That's all. It's how your brain is locked

I'm out . Have a good morning/night wherever ya at mate

And yes civilians should be able to flee / relocate and should have had the ability from the start so we are in agreement on that one.

 

[SammyPops]

So to summarize, you think there is a disproportionately powerful Jewish population with mostly malinfluence for U.S. interests.

The majority of American Zionists are Christians, fyi.

I am aware, and as Chomsky states its the most antisemitic zionist group on earth.

Are you suggesting that American jews who comprise approx. 2% of the US population are not massively over represented in positions of power/influence in government, hollywood, media, finance?

I wonder why Spielberg has not made a movie about the nachbar.

 

[Rational Poster]

You're being disingenuous as hades. I "shoehorned" it in disingenuously by clearly making it a focal point of my post ..... twice. Which once again .... you directly responded to. Twice. If you are telling me you weren't responding to what I actually wrote just your version in your head again....... well I actually believe that lol. But it's most definitely not me attempting to be disingenuous .

Once again I don't have to have it either way. That's a you thing. That's all. It's how your brain is locked

I'm out . Have a good morning/night wherever ya at mate

And yes civilians should be able to flee / relocate and should have had the ability from the start so we are in agreement on that one.

The really silly part of this conversation is that there is no rate of civilian death you would be willing to accept in any context based on your constant pearl clutching in every war thread.

You say Israelis should slow down, but in reality there's not amount of slowing down that you would be okay with unless there was literally zero collateral damage.

In reality, ending the war quickly is what's going to prevent long term loss of life. Constraining a military to your idealistic moralisms is likely to cost more lives on both sides.

 

[Rational Poster]

I am aware, and as Chomsky states its the most antisemitic zionist group on earth.

Are you suggesting that American jews who comprise approx. 2% of the US population are not massively over represented in positions of power/influence in government, hollywood, media, finance?

I wonder why Spielberg has not made a movie about the nachbar.

Spielberg made this though. lmao

 

[Anewt]

The really silly part of this conversation is that there is no rate of civilian death you would be willing to accept in any context based on your constant pearl clutching in every war thread.

You say Israelis should slow down, but in reality there's not amount of slowing down that you would be okay with unless there was literally zero collateral damage.

In reality, ending the war quickly is what's going to prevent long term loss of life. Constraining a military to your idealistic moralisms is likely to cost more lives on both sides.

Night sweetheart

 

[SammyPops]

Before the genocide ? Oh yeah. Still it wasn't peaceful at all for palestinians, but you like to use that smokescreen :

2022 Among Deadliest Years for Palestinians in West Bank, Middle East Peace Process Coordinator Tells Security Council

2022 Among Deadliest Years for Palestinians in West Bank, Middle East Peace Process Coordinator Tells Security Council - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Peacekeeping and Peacebuilding and Protection and Human Rights; published on 28 Oct 2022 by UN SC

reliefweb.int

Timeline of recorder israeli killings and assaults from August 2022 to February 2023 :
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/timeline-crises-palestine

August 2023 : Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks -

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks

Recent months have seen some of the worst ever scenes of settler violence in the occupied West Bank.

www.bbc.com

June 2023, administrative annexation of the west bank is done : https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/israels-annexation-west-bank-has-already-begun

Israeli government takes major step toward West Bank annexation

A controversial measure grants Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a staunch supporter of Greater Israel, unprecedented powers to advance controversial settlement expansion in the West Bank.

www.lemonde.fr

A little story from February 2023 :

"The settlers attacked our house, they smashed the windows and burned my nephew's cars and trucks. They tried to break into my car showroom and set it on fire," said Abdel Nasser al-Junaidi, speaking outside his home.
He described how he had rushed his children up to the rooftop to try to keep them safe.
"The army did nothing to protect us. It supported the settlers and protected them. The shooting was from both settlers and soldiers. We were terrified. What happened was a horrific and barbaric attack," said Mr al-Junaidi.
"There were about 30 masked settlers carrying pistols who were destroying the house… The moment we entered the house, they discovered us, threw stones at us and broke my brother's shoulder.
"I shouted at the soldiers to protect the children and prevent the settlers from frightening them, but the soldiers responded by shooting at me and shouting at me to stay at home," said Mr al-Domadi, who eventually managed to ensure his children were safely in another part of the building.
"The worst thing is what the kids experienced - the terror and the panic they felt. Afterwards, they were trembling in fear and sheltering in my lap, begging me to stay beside them."
The Israeli army has defended its handling of the violence but a military official said, "The wisdom of the deployment could be challenged."

Hawara West Bank: 'What happened was horrific and barbaric'

Residents in the occupied West Bank area tell the BBC a mob went on an hours-long rampage.

www.bbc.com

@Rational Poster meant to state "more peaceful for Israeli".

You need to understand that he and his side do not care about Palestinians or they would not make such incredible stupid statements.

If you want some help in understanding him and his crew, look into how white slave owners in teh south reacted to slave uprising that killed women adn children. They thought they were treating the black slaves just fine and could not imagine why the slaves revolted.

Look at modern day zionists through that lense: the Palestinians have it just fine, they should thank us for taking care of the b/c they cannot govern themselves.

 

[kflo]

I am aware, and as Chomsky states its the most antisemitic zionist group on earth.

Are you suggesting that American jews who comprise approx. 2% of the US population are not massively over represented in positions of power/influence in government, hollywood, media, finance?

I wonder why Spielberg has not made a movie about the nachbar.

what is your definition of a zionist?

 

[Samjj]

I am aware, and as Chomsky states its the most antisemitic zionist group on earth.

Are you suggesting that American jews who comprise approx. 2% of the US population are not massively over represented in positions of power/influence in government, hollywood, media, finance?

I wonder why Spielberg has not made a movie about the nachbar.

I might have been open to a conversation about Jewish “success” had you not just described Jewish malinfluence as an American liability.

 

[kflo]

@Rational Poster meant to state "more peaceful for Israeli".

You need to understand that he and his side do not care about Palestinians or they would not make such incredible stupid statements.

If you want some help in understanding him and his crew, look into how white slave owners in teh south reacted to slave uprising that killed women adn children. They thought they were treating the black slaves just fine and could not imagine why the slaves revolted.

Look at modern day zionists through that lense: the Palestinians have it just fine, they should thank us for taking care of the b/c they cannot govern themselves.

if you were israel, you'd have offered full autonomy to hamas in gaza i'm sure. that would have solved everything.

 

[Blayt7hh]

if you were israel, you'd have offered full autonomy to hamas in gaza i'm sure. that would have solved everything.

If @SammyPops was in charge of a country that was attacked like Israel, it would be open season to rape their women and murder their children. He’s proven he’s completely spineless.