All Time GOAT poll

[blocnoir]

Pogba was already on the downswing compared to his popular days.

The comparison to Prime Jones should be Prime Ronaldo. Do you think in any reality that La Liga or UEFA or whatever FA would have caught Ronaldo would announce that he popped or suspend him? Not a chance.

Doping in futbol is rampant, it's so obvious, guys are running full tilt at 90'+9' then come back for a cup semi-final two days later then go to Europe for a knockout stage game 4 days later. Shit is ridiculous. I don't mind it BTW, I think they should use all that is available to augment their performance and ensure they are recovered, but let's not pretend that Pogba getting popped means that world futbol isn't full of PEDs.

Nothing to prove what you're saying (football players being doped)

 

[Lee Danger]

 

[GreenGorilla]

Nothing to prove what you're saying (football players being doped)

Have you ever been close to pro players? Even semi pro level?
I have they force their youth players to take immense amounts of painkillers and the like, even though they need surgery. Happened to a friend of mine and the guy was 3 or 4th league in Germany, now imagine a prospect at a high class club.

Football is known for being corrupt as fuck, ask the guy on your AV about the years Del Piero had to drag them out of serie B. Just lol at thinking footballers or any pro athlete are mostly clean.

 

[Lee Danger]

Nothing to prove what you're saying (football players being doped)

ironic from a guy with Buffon as avatar.
do you forget about the epo scandal of the juventus players when tested in their respective national teams or Davids being caught in 2001?

i also remember, from the top of my head, Kallon from Inter being disqualificated from doping in those same years.

 

[lifelessheap]

It's like 30% that think he's GOAT.

100% agree he cheated.

No one doubts he hasn't pissed hot.

Honestly, the fingers out to poke and create insane range is worse than all the juicing.

 

[HavokHarmon]

Yes, him admitting in the end of 2021 that he eyepoked on purpose had nothing to do with it.

​

The interview where he said that he has poked people in the eyes? No I don’t think that has more to do with it than the fact that it had been an issue for many fighters in many fights for over a decade prior to that. Shit, we saw a tko stoppage from eye pokes in Burns/Johnson years ago and that didn’t prompt an equipment change.

I don’t disagree that Jones is/was a dirty fighter, but you’re really reaching to say that he caused a rule change. The examples you gave of Joe Son and Tank had event catalysts; fights where the exact thing the new rule addressed came up, and the rules were changed in fairly short order. Here you don’t have that, you just have a guy who eye poked a fair bit through his career. I’m not arguing that he didn’t but you can’t draw a straight line between Jones and that change.

 

[Oddmonster]

The interview where he said that he has poked people in the eyes? No I don’t think that has more to do with it than the fact that it had been an issue for many fighters in many fights for over a decade prior to that. Shit, we saw a tko stoppage from eye pokes in Burns/Johnson years ago and that didn’t prompt an equipment change.

I don’t disagree that Jones is/was a dirty fighter, but you’re really reaching to say that he caused a rule change. The examples you gave of Joe Son and Tank had event catalysts; fights where the exact thing the new rule addressed came up, and the rules were changed in fairly short order. Here you don’t have that, you just have a guy who eye poked a fair bit through his career. I’m not arguing that he didn’t but you can’t draw a straight line between Jones and that change.

There is a difference between accidents happening once in a while, and a fighter eyepoking in every fight, often several times, and then admitting he does it on purpose.

And yes, I agree- you could say you can't draw a straight line between Jones and that change. Just as you cant draw a straight line between Hackneys nut shots leading to no nut shots rule, and the same with Tank.

I think you forget how much everyone, from other fighters, to commentators, to journalists, was talking about Jon and his eye pokes.

"As Dominick Reyes was in the middle of a sparring session with one of his training partners as he prepared for a showdown with Jon Jones at UFC 247, he accidentally got an eye poke during one of the exchanges.

Immediately, Reyes’ training partner paused, apologized and asked if Reyes was OK to continue. Without hesitation, the 30-year-old light heavyweight contender put up his gloves and moved forward to finish the round.

“I said just keep going, it’s training, we’ve got to get ready for this guy,” Reyes relayed when speaking to MMA Fighting."

 

[The Siege]

Nothing to prove what you're saying (football players being doped)

What does that even mean? Yeah, no shit, I don't have evidence of widespread corruption across world futball. That's like saying "nothing to prove that politicians are corrupt".

Intuitively, we can look at the incentives to take PEDs, the quality of testing protocols and safeguards against abuse, and the things at stake ranging from corporate revenue and spending in the billions to literal State geopolitical objectives, and we can conclude that PEDs are vital to success at the elite level.

Hell, we know that PEDs are abused at the regional levels in a podunk sport like MMA (in terms of global popularity compared to futbol, basketball, etc), so what makes you think literal governments and corporations would not utilize PEDs to improve their teams?

 

[Oddmonster]

What does that even mean? Yeah, no shit, I don't have evidence of widespread corruption across world futball. That's like saying "nothing to prove that politicians are corrupt".

Intuitively, we can look at the incentives to take PEDs, the quality of testing protocols and safeguards against abuse, and the things at stake ranging from corporate revenue and spending in the billions to literal State geopolitical objectives, and we can conclude that PEDs are vital to success at the elite level.

Hell, we know that PEDs are abused at the regional levels in a podunk sport like MMA (in terms of global popularity compared to futbol, basketball, etc), so what makes you think literal governments and corporations would not utilize PEDs to improve their teams?

According to researchers, who have studied doping in pro sports, -
".... estimated that between 14% and 39% of current adult elite athletes have intentionally used doping."

 

[blocnoir]

What does that even mean? Yeah, no shit, I don't have evidence of widespread corruption across world futball. That's like saying "nothing to prove that politicians are corrupt".

Intuitively, we can look at the incentives to take PEDs, the quality of testing protocols and safeguards against abuse, and the things at stake ranging from corporate revenue and spending in the billions to literal State geopolitical objectives, and we can conclude that PEDs are vital to success at the elite level.

Hell, we know that PEDs are abused at the regional levels in a podunk sport like MMA (in terms of global popularity compared to futbol, basketball, etc), so what makes you think literal governments and corporations would not utilize PEDs to improve their teams?

But... there are no proofs. What is your point...?

My argument: MMA is a joke as a sport, because its biggest organization promotes a guy who failed three drug tests as the best fighter, something that wouldn't happen in a real sport. I give football for example.

Your reply: they are doped in other sports, such as football.

My reply: there is no proof of what you're saying. Period. You assume stuff. But football's best players, officially, never failed a drug test. Maradonna did, that was a long time ago. Since then, all the best players (Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry, and recently Cristiano and Messi, and so far Kylian, Haaland, etc) are clean until proven guilty. Not the case for Jones, who failed THREE drug tests. And is still competing. And is still called the best. In what is supposed to be a pro sport.

That's all I saying. Bring me proof that the best athletes in other serious sports are doped, and I'll shut my mouth. But until then, I'm right.

 

[GreenGorilla]

ironic from a guy with Buffon as avatar.
do you forget about the epo scandal of the juventus players when tested in their respective national teams or Davids being caught in 2001?

i also remember, from the top of my head, Kallon from Inter being disqualificated from doping in those same years.

Don't forget when Buffon acted like he saved a clear goal by Muntari in Juventus vs Milan back in the early 2010s but I suppose Buffon still goat Keeper even as a proven cheater cause those rules only apply when you dont like the guy in question.

 

[The Siege]

According to researchers, who have studied doping in pro sports, -
".... estimated that between 14% and 39% of current adult elite athletes have intentionally used doping."

Thats interesting. Is there an actual study or a more detailed review available?

 

[blocnoir]

Have you ever been close to pro players? Even semi pro level?
I have they force their youth players to take immense amounts of painkillers and the like, even though they need surgery. Happened to a friend of mine and the guy was 3 or 4th league in Germany, now imagine a prospect at a high class club.

Football is known for being corrupt as fuck, ask the guy on your AV about the years Del Piero had to drag them out of serie B. Just lol at thinking footballers or any pro athlete are mostly clean.

Read my last reply. Ty

 

[GreenGorilla]

Read my last reply. Ty

Read @Substance Abuse reply on the first page of this post. Ty

 

[blocnoir]

Don't forget when Buffon acted like he saved a clear goal by Muntari in Juventus vs Milan back in the early 2010s but I suppose Buffon still goat Keeper even as a proven cheater cause those rules only apply when you dont like the guy in question.

Where am I. In a serious discussion or debating with someone in YouTube's comments. What are we talking about. We're talking PEDs, you're talking controversial ref decisions.

At least I enjoy your AV when I read your weird posts.

 

[The Siege]

But... there are no proofs. What is your point...?

My argument: MMA is a joke as a sport, because its biggest organization promotes a guy who failed three drug tests as the best fighter, something that wouldn't happen in a real sport. I give football for example.

Your reply: they are doped in other sports, such as football.

My reply: there is no proof of what you're saying. Period. You assume stuff. But football's best players, officially, never failed a drug test. Maradonna did, that was a long time ago. Since then, all the best players (Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry, and recently Cristiano and Messi, and so far Kylian, Haaland, etc) are clean until proven guilty. Not the case for Jones, who failed THREE drug tests. And is still competing. And is still called the best. In what is supposed to be a pro sport.

That's all I saying. Bring me proof that the best athletes in other serious sports are doped, and I'll shut my mouth. But until then, I'm right.

Im not saying that the UFC isnt a joke, for more reasons than the one you listed, or that I have definitive proof that those players you listed are doping.

Paulo Costa, Kamaru Usman, DDP, and a whole host of suspect athletes never popped. Is that because of them not using PEDs or maybe because of the sophistication of methods used to bypass testing?

Obviously, it's innocent until proven guilty. I am not arguing to have them suspended or banned or whatever.

 

[GreenGorilla]

Where am I. In a serious discussion or debating with someone in YouTube's comments. What are we talking about. We're talking PEDs, you're talking controversial ref decisions.

At least I enjoy your AV when I read your weird posts.

You are having a discussion on an online forum with mostly people who never competed in a sport they talk about. Serious discussion just LOL

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Jones had the possibility of being the GOAT. The PEDs disqualifies him from ever being that, but besides that, the fact that he always fought so dirty is another mark against him. I know people will defend it, but the fact is - Jon is the only fighter in newer times that forced UFC to change their rules because he was fighting so dirty (I believe only 2 other fighters have the same honor - Keith Hackney and the nut shots on Joe Son, and Tank when he tried to throw his opponent over the top of the octagon).

Then the fact that Jon has had the physical advantage on all but maybe 1 of his opponents. This is not really Jon's fault - he is what scientists would come up with in a laboratory if they wanted to build the perfect fighter.

What Jon could do to prove himself in my eyes, is fight some worthy opponents at HW where his physical advantage wont be the determining factor in a fight. I am not really impressed with the Gane win - a wrestler against a point fighter with zero grappling skills*shrug*. Stipe is a fantastic fighter, and had it been 5-6 years ago, it would be a great match-up. Now Stipe has fought 4 times in 6 years - losing 2 of those fights.

Conspiracy theory : I have said this before, and here it is again - I believe Jon has been on steroids since he was a kid/teenager. We know both Jon's brothers make millions in the NFL, and got busted for juicing. With the way we know Jon, what is the chance he did not juice? Knowing his brothers, what is the chance they did not help him do it?

I can guarantee you that all three Jones brothers have been on the juice since highschool at least. That shit starts in highschool football and locker rooms. Even 20 years ago, I was offered roids by my coach to "fill out faster" lol. Good post.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

I think if they both weighed 170 that GSP is probably the only fighter that could have neutralized Khabib standup. GSP's wrestling was just too strong.

29-0 is hard to top, especially with what 12-13 wins in a row in UFC. Not to mention Khabib was getting better like every single fight before he retired strong with three straight submissions....

How many top 10 wins did Khabib have.
Guy fought cans for 19 out of 29 bouts lol. 29-0 is achievable when you manage your career like a boxer and make sure to always stay at the weightclass you have to almost neck yourself to get to.

 

[blocnoir]

Read @Substance Abuse reply on the first page of this post. Ty

I did. But what he's saying is shit.

There is no subjectivity: Jones failed three drug tests. He's a cheater, and should never be called the GOAT. That's my point as someone who likes MMA as a sport, a serious, safe sport, where the cheaters get what they deserve. Not have their dicks sucked by the company's president in all promos they made about him.