(Edit: Eduardo chimes in) Someone please fill me in re:Shogun,his camp,his decisions.

[bonezerelli]

EDIT: Eduardo Alonso, his former manager, chimes in on the 2nd page. Great insight on his part

Perhaps this is too long, but I have some questions I hope someone can answer.

It's been well documented that Andre Dida (Shogun's trainer) and Ninja (his brother) had some tension that lead to Ninja no longer being allowed to corner Shogun. Ninja disagreed with some of Dida's words and training. Interesting it was just prior to the fight against Henderson which many mma pundits have said was poor tactically on Shogun's part.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/8/8/3227037/murilo-rua-removed-from-mauricio-shogun-corner-camp-before-ufc-on-fox-4-mma-news

While I find it strange that Shogun was ok with Ninja no longer being there, perhaps it helps explains things.

I also found it stranger that after the Vera fight, when Shogun was clearly weak fitness-wise, and that his camp and trainer said they would work on this, all they said they changed leading up to the Gustafsson fight was getting tall sparring partners...no mention of improved focus on fitness.

My question is, tonight Joe Rogan made mention of something Rafael Cordeiro said. I missed what he said Cordeiro said....but I think it was something along the lines of Shogun not training properly....I pray it's not. Would love some insight.

I'm a devoted Shogun fan...but his comments about not interested in the belt, the training methods his brother doesn't like, the criticism Cordeiro gave him (what did he say please?), the fact that he decided not to train at Kings MMA after destroying Forrest Griffen, his clearly refusal to work on an area that is difficult for him....I fear Shogun has gotten comfortable. He's happy with what he has, I fear that "fire" is gone. It seems he's happier with a trainer that trains in a way he likes, as opposed to say Cordeiro who pushes him in area he doesn't.

I could be completely wrong, and I hope I am. But there's just too many bread crumbs on this particular trail.

Any insight welcome.

Dang it.

 

[instig8r]

Joe Rogan said that Rafael said that shogun is not training right, and he will not be a champion if he continues his current training methods - something along those lines.

hope that I was of some help.

 

[bonezerelli]

Joe Rogan said that Rafael said that shogun is not training right, and he will not be a champion if he continues his current training methods - something along those lines.

hope that I was of some help.

It was. Was hoping for more insight, but it was helpful regardless.

Such a waste....but if you're comfortable, why bother?

 

[Mooner]

but I wouldn't say re-joining with Cordeiro is the answer. True Shogun fans know Cunha is the right coach for Shogun.

 

[Gunny]

Guys please, give it up. Shogun has more than lived up to his potential. You fuckers are lookking for a super hero.

 

[Muskie]

I don't think family makes the best cornerman or trainers. BJ had his brother in his corner again tonight, a lot of good it did him. GSP is smart, he flies in the best guys he can, he flies to train with experts, his willingness to spend money and to do hard camps pays off. Fighters who stick with the same old same old get beat eventually, getting out of your comfort zone is good sometimes.

Always learning new techniques or improving technique is necessary to stay at the top. Shogun looked alright for about a round and a half. BJ didn't even look good that long.

Henderson trains in Arizona, Rory trains in Montreal, Gus trained in San Diego, they moved to further their career and to get better training partners/teams. BJ is still in Hawaii, Shogun is still in Churitiba. A lot of the best sparing partners Shogun used to have are no longer at Chute Box or in Churitiba.

Even the Mexican boxer who apparently won tonight, left his family in Mexico for the fight, he also got a new trainer and some new ideas into his camp after 3 fights with PacMan.

 

[everythingulove]

I'd love to see Shogun with the Blackzillians

 

[Eduardo Alonso]

This is not entirely Accurate.

Dida wasn't part of the Dan Henderson's camp, and Ninja was still involved to some extent (although not too much) and was a cornerman. I could say some things in that sense happened back then, but that order of facts isnt a complete accurate statement.

 

[KingofFightersZ]

Overrated Shogun is overrated

 

[Jagan Eye]

This is not entirely Accurate.

Dida wasn't part of the Dan Henderson's camp, and Ninja was still involved to some extent (although not too much) and was a cornerman. I could say some things in that sense happened back then, but that order of facts isnt a complete accurate statement.

As always, thanks a bunch for your insight Eduardo! Sherdog is a little bit wiser and more well informed with you around.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I don't think family makes the best cornerman or trainers. BJ had his brother in his corner again tonight, a lot of good it did him. GSP is smart, he flies in the best guys he can, he flies to train with experts, his willingness to spend money and to do hard camps pays off. Fighters who stick with the same old same old get beat eventually, getting out of your comfort zone is good sometimes.

Always learning new techniques or improving technique is necessary to stay at the top. Shogun looked alright for about a round and a half. BJ didn't even look good that long.

Henderson trains in Arizona, Rory trains in Montreal, Gus trained in San Diego, they moved to further their career and to get better training partners/teams. BJ is still in Hawaii, Shogun is still in Churitiba. A lot of the best sparing partners Shogun used to have are no longer at Chute Box or in Churitiba.

Even the Mexican boxer who apparently won tonight, left his family in Mexico for the fight, he also got a new trainer and some new ideas into his camp after 3 fights with PacMan.

This might have well have been a post about Fedor.

Clearly there is some truth to this with Shogun, but I having been a fan of his for years, I am convinced that what we have seen out of Shogun for the past couple of years is all we are going to get. I suspect that after blowing out his knee for the third time, that he doesn't have the physcial ability to train properly or use the same tactics in fighting. His movement is that was once spectacular is gone, his kicks used to be a massive weapon and he never uses them, and even his bjj is weakened. His guard was ok tonight, but pathetic against Vera. I am sure there are some ways he could improve his conditioning still, but these circumstances may have affected his desire as well.

Even in his diminished state, he is dangerous, and is capable of beating anyone on heart and power alone. I actually thought he looked better tonight than he has since beating Machida, and would have finished most guys. Gus really impressed me with his chin. I think it is just time to accept Shogun as a dangerous top 5 to 10 LHW. His days as a PFP contender are over, and that is ok. He is still puts on exciting and competitive fights.

 

[DoopidyDawesome]

This might have well have been a post about Fedor.

Clearly there is some truth to this with Shogun, but I having been a fan of his for years, I am convinced that what we have seen out of Shogun for the past couple of years is all we are going to get. I suspect that after blowing out his knee for the third time, that he doesn't have the physcial ability to train properly or use the same tactics in fighting. His movement is that was once spectacular is gone, his kicks used to be a massive weapon and he never uses them, and even his bjj is weakened. His guard was ok tonight, but pathetic against Vera. I am sure there are some ways he could improve his conditioning still, but these circumstances may have affected his desire as well.

Even in his diminished state, he is dangerous, and is capable of beating anyone on heart and power alone. I actually thought he looked better tonight than he has since beating Machida, and would have finished most guys. Gus really impressed me with his chin. I think it is just time to accept Shogun as a dangerous top 5 to 10 LHW. His days as a PFP contender are over, and that is ok. He is still puts on exciting and competitive fights.

I approve this post.

 

[redaxe]

I think he should also get surgery for his torn pec.

 

[M o A]

A big Shogun fan here...but to the rest of you, sorry to say but its over for Shogun. Say goodnight to the bad guy.

 

[bonezerelli]

This is not entirely Accurate.

Dida wasn't part of the Dan Henderson's camp, and Ninja was still involved to some extent (although not too much) and was a cornerman. I could say some things in that sense happened back then, but that order of facts isnt a complete accurate statement.

Eduardo,

Thanks so much for including your insight. It's very much appreciated. Also, my apologies for stating some inaccurate facts and timelines. Like many, I rely on the media and they are not privy to whole truths and give out sensational stories as opposed to accurate ones when given the chance.

However, the substance of my initial post stays the same. It seems to the outsider that Shogun has made some questionable choices, perhaps is not interested in being pushed to work areas he should and even others who know him (his brother and Cordeiro) question him or the people around him. One could even argue him leaving you could be thrown into that mix.

Can you share some insight? Sure you cannot divulge too much but surely there is something too all of this.

 

[Striker22 redo]

People need to realize that cardio is a stregnth just like power, speed and agility. Not everyone can have it to elite levels. Guys like Guida have it. Guys like Shogun could train all day and not have that stamina like Guida. You have to make the best of what you have....Shogun was tough to the end with Hendo. But he gets beat up in every fight.

 

[Eduardo Alonso]

Bonezerelli,

I understand and I appreciate. I wish I could tell exactly everything I think. Maybe one day I'll write a book lol

Let's say that I'm very greatful for the opportunities he gave me, I like him a lot and I think he is one of the most talented fighters ever. It's really a shame to see him performing under the level he could and been satisfied with little performance as a standard. He can do much more, and he can be back stronger.

Life is made of choices, games evolve everyday and we only get older, which limits the margin of the mistakes we made. Some stuff that would work years ago, won't do it right now cause sport is not the same and we are not the same. The older you get, the more attention to detail you have to have and less "loose" in your routine you can be.

I'm very happy aiming my priorities now with my current fighters who are thinking on the same page as I do. I'm very happy with the work we have been doing with Demian, and other young kids, as those guys became my priority after we (me and Mauricio) unfortunately split. I'm happy, and I want to continue to do my work and let time answers a few things.

I REALLY wish him the best. Alex is a tough guy, proops to him, but it's up to Mauricio to get back to his best days, he can do it and I hope he will!

 

[DrAgOnPuNcH23]

Bonezerelli,

I understand and I appreciate. I wish I could tell exactly everything I think. Maybe one day I'll write a book lol

Let's say that I'm very greatful for the opportunities he gave me, I like him a lot and I think he is one of the most talented fighters ever. It's really a shame to see him performing under the level he could and been satisfied with little performance as a standard. He can do much more, and he can be back stronger.

Life is made of choices, games evolve everyday and we only get older, which limits the margin of the mistakes we made. Some stuff that would work years ago, won't do it right now cause sport is not the same and we are not the same. The older you get, the more attention to detail you have to have and less "loose" in your routine you can be.

I'm very happy aiming my priorities now with my current fighters who are thinking on the same page as I do. I'm very happy with the work we have been doing with Demian, and other young kids, as those guys became my priority after we (me and Mauricio) unfortunately split. I'm happy, and I want to continue to do my work and let time answers a few things.

I REALLY wish him the best. Alex is a tough guy, proops to him, but it's up to Mauricio to get back to his best days, he can do it and I hope he will!

Thanks Eduardo for the insight.

So you don't think the knee surgeries have anything to do with it?

It seems that the 3rd surgery (after the Machida fight and before the Jones fight) might have taken it's toll on him. Prior to that he had way more lateral movement and also threw way more leg kicks. He used to be light on his feet, now he plods foward. Now it seems like he doesn't have that "bounce" in his step anymore. I suppose it can be a cardio issue, but it does seem to be a prob after the 3rd surgery.

 

[bonezerelli]

Bonezerelli,

I understand and I appreciate. I wish I could tell exactly everything I think. Maybe one day I'll write a book lol

Let's say that I'm very greatful for the opportunities he gave me, I like him a lot and I think he is one of the most talented fighters ever. It's really a shame to see him performing under the level he could and been satisfied with little performance as a standard. He can do much more, and he can be back stronger.

Life is made of choices, games evolve everyday and we only get older, which limits the margin of the mistakes we made. Some stuff that would work years ago, won't do it right now cause sport is not the same and we are not the same. The older you get, the more attention to detail you have to have and less "loose" in your routine you can be.

I'm very happy aiming my priorities now with my current fighters who are thinking on the same page as I do. I'm very happy with the work we have been doing with Demian, and other young kids, as those guys became my priority after we (me and Mauricio) unfortunately split. I'm happy, and I want to continue to do my work and let time answers a few things.

I REALLY wish him the best. Alex is a tough guy, proops to him, but it's up to Mauricio to get back to his best days, he can do it and I hope he will!

Hi Eduardo,

Sorry for the late response. I appreciate you getting back to me. You should write a book one day. I've seen your interviews and you always came off as intelligent with Shogun's best interests in mind. Even know you are nothing but very complimentary when it would be easy to blast him.

I am reading between the lines of your message and see what I thought was there. Of course this is my opinion only. But it seems to me that Shogun has reached a point in his life where despite his experience and talent, he is happy where he is....even if to us it is him under performing.

He's happy with substandard performances. In all jobs, we all reach a point where we simply call it in. Find me a person who works at the same job long enough and eventually they go through the motions. They show up, punch in and out and go home. Shogun has been through some wars, some fantastic battles, but with a wife, children, you reach a point where priorities are different. MMA fighter regardless, he looks to have reached the same point.

Good for him though and good for you for still being supportive.

I see what you are saying about age as well. I agree as well. If Shogun were in Pride right now, the same way he fought against Alex, probably would have worked. But the sport has evolved and more is required. The margin for error is smaller. Seems to me that Shogun is unwilling or uninterested in evolving or putting in the extra mile. But I don't fault him for it.

Don't get me wrong though, He still beats most MMA fighters out there, but to be at the top requires full mental and physical commitment. I just don't think Shogun is interested in all that's required, but again, that's OK. He's certainly earned the right to make different goals.

We as fans demand all fighters strive to be champ. Anything less for most is inexcusable. However, some fighters fight for a paycheck, fight because it's all they know, fight because they love it. Fighting to be the champ is a goal for everyone at some point I would think, but it is not the only goal. When Shogun was interviews recently and he said he wasn't interested in the belt, I knew then something was different. But again, I am relying on the media so who knows.

So let's all call a spade a spade. Shogun didn't win that fight, his knees aren't the reason his fighting tactics are less than they were in the past, his cardio isn't the real reason he is losing fights or isn't unfixable, this is simply a fighter who has reached a point where though he could train to be the best, train to fix the errors, train to fix all the above, he simply chooses not to. He's earned the right to fight for his own reasons and those reason don't include wanting to do what's required to be the best. And you know what? That's ok. He's still my favourite and i wish him the best as a gatekeeper 205'er.

All the best Eduardo, seems to me he was lucky to have you.

 

[FlowWithTheGo23]

Glad to see Eduardo shedding some light on things. Seems like he cleared up some fine details, but overall agrees with the basic premise of the OP.