(Edit: Eduardo chimes in) Someone please fill me in re:Shogun,his camp,his decisions.

[bonezerelli]

I don't think family makes the best cornerman or trainers. BJ had his brother in his corner again tonight, a lot of good it did him. GSP is smart, he flies in the best guys he can, he flies to train with experts, his willingness to spend money and to do hard camps pays off. Fighters who stick with the same old same old get beat eventually, getting out of your comfort zone is good sometimes.

Always learning new techniques or improving technique is necessary to stay at the top. Shogun looked alright for about a round and a half. BJ didn't even look good that long.

Henderson trains in Arizona, Rory trains in Montreal, Gus trained in San Diego, they moved to further their career and to get better training partners/teams. BJ is still in Hawaii, Shogun is still in Churitiba. A lot of the best sparing partners Shogun used to have are no longer at Chute Box or in Churitiba.

Even the Mexican boxer who apparently won tonight, left his family in Mexico for the fight, he also got a new trainer and some new ideas into his camp after 3 fights with PacMan.

I don't think is quite the same situation.

Ninja left apparently because he disagreed with Dida. Didn't like the training methods or things he was saying. This is the same guy (Dida) who said all Shogun needed for the Alex fight was taller sparing partners. BJ's brother has always been accused of being too light on BJ. I don't think Ninja was ever accused of that. In my opinion, I think it was the opposite...with Ninja not liking Dida's tactics or approach as he didn't think were touch enough.

Why else would Shogun keep Dida and be ok with Ninja leaving?

Plus, after Eduardo's insight above....

 

[TheViking]

there is so much mystery about Shoguns knees. Has he ever answered questions about them, specificaly about the knees? I saw an interview leading up to this fight with Alex, where the reporter asked about his health and he looked like he didn't want to talk about it. Just said everything was fine, seemed a bit annoyed with the question.(guess he get asked a lot)

It's obvious he has cardio problems. The question is, is it because his knees can't handle the cardio training, like long runs and a lot of high paced sparring? Or is it just because he doens't have the fire to train hard enough?

i'm guessing it's because his knees can't take the daily grind, he will get pain etc. so he has to work around it, accept that he doesn't have cardio for long fights and hope for a finish in the first or second round.

if it's bc of pain in the knees, he should think about swimming. Might not translate so well to fighting cardio, but it could give something.

i'm not expecting Eduardo to comment on this stuff, it's too private imo. But we can speculate.

 

[bonezerelli]

there is so much mystery about Shoguns knees. Has he ever answered questions about them, specificaly about the knees? I saw an interview leading up to this fight with Alex, where the reporter asked about his health and he looked like he didn't want to talk about it. Just said everything was fine, seemed a bit annoyed with the question.(guess he get asked a lot)

It's obvious he has cardio problems. The question is, is it because his knees can't handle the cardio training, like long runs and a lot of high paced sparring? Or is it just because he doens't have the fire to train hard enough?

i'm guessing it's because his knees can't take the daily grind, he will get pain etc. so he has to work around it, accept that he doesn't have cardio for long fights and hope for a finish in the first or second round.

if it's bc of pain in the knees, he should think about swimming. Might not translate so well to fighting cardio, but it could give something.

i'm not expecting Eduardo to comment on this stuff, it's too private imo. But we can speculate.

I don't think his knees are damaged enough that he can't work on his cardio....I just don't see that. Instead, I think it's about the desire at this point.

Give Shogun some good matchups, some good exhibition fights so to speak. Have him fight Rashad, Vitor (imagine that!), Joey Beltran or a Rogerio rematchup. Those would be fun and make more sense.

 

[Randy Marsh]

Shogun and I on Twitter, lives!!!

 

[finalboss]

It all comes down to the fighter. He chooses his camp, his style, his conditioning, etc. When it all comes down to it, the only person that bears responsibility for what happens to him is himself.

 

[Mooner]

there is so much mystery about Shoguns knees. Has he ever answered questions about them, specificaly about the knees? I saw an interview leading up to this fight with Alex, where the reporter asked about his health and he looked like he didn't want to talk about it. Just said everything was fine, seemed a bit annoyed with the question.(guess he get asked a lot)

It's obvious he has cardio problems. The question is, is it because his knees can't handle the cardio training, like long runs and a lot of high paced sparring? Or is it just because he doens't have the fire to train hard enough?

i'm guessing it's because his knees can't take the daily grind, he will get pain etc. so he has to work around it, accept that he doesn't have cardio for long fights and hope for a finish in the first or second round.

if it's bc of pain in the knees, he should think about swimming. Might not translate so well to fighting cardio, but it could give something.

i'm not expecting Eduardo to comment on this stuff, it's too private imo. But we can speculate.

Well obviously Shogun who is a fighter would not shed light on his physical conditions. He'll always say his knees are '100 percent'

However, just put this into perspective. Mauricio Shogun Rua went through 3 reconstructive ACL surgeries. That's 3~4 years gone, period. No training, no improvement on technique, nothing. Take that into consideration and see where this occurred...oh, he had those surgeries at the age of 25~29.

There's two things we can take out from this. One, these injuries and surgeries occurred during an athlete's prime age (25~29) and two, see the inconsistency in the UFC whereas nearly perfect record in PRIDE?

Honestly, despite two ACL surgeries, Shogun still demonstrated unbelievable improvements in his game. The way he dismantled Liddell and Machida was spectacular. It seemed his boxing tightened up, lateral movements and even more improvements on kicks.

Then comes the third injury where he sustained it during the rematch with Machida while attempting to defend Machida's takedown. I'm speculating here, but I think this completely took Shogun out physically. He hasn't looked the same after 2010, period. My analysis is it had something to do with being the fact that the previous two injuries were on his left, but this new one was on the right. With two knees essentially shot, how is he able to train and push himself to his limits? Not to mention, Shogun's whole game throughout his career was built off of being a kicker. You can't kick when both of your knees are shot on numerous occasions.

Now, this is only looking at major injuries. Who the hell knows how many joint injuries he sustained while in practice/fights etc. The Shogun we've seen after 2010 was a guy with pure heart. A rock'em sock'em robot. While I respect that, I don't want Shogun to be known for his heart like Wanderlei and Murilo. The Shogun that gravitated me as a life long fan was the fact that he is a killer and an assassin. If he can't get back to that form, please Shogun, retire.

 

[wisdom blows]

Overrated Shogun is overrated

hilarious, coming from a guy with your sig.

 

[German]

I'm very happy aiming my priorities now with my current fighters who are thinking on the same page as I do. I'm very happy with the work we have been doing with Demian, and other young kids, as those guys became my priority after we (me and Mauricio) unfortunately split.!

Which other fighters besides Maia are still with you?

 

[lallinho]

This might have well have been a post about Fedor.

Clearly there is some truth to this with Shogun, but I having been a fan of his for years, I am convinced that what we have seen out of Shogun for the past couple of years is all we are going to get. I suspect that after blowing out his knee for the third time, that he doesn't have the physcial ability to train properly or use the same tactics in fighting. His movement is that was once spectacular is gone, his kicks used to be a massive weapon and he never uses them, and even his bjj is weakened. His guard was ok tonight, but pathetic against Vera. I am sure there are some ways he could improve his conditioning still, but these circumstances may have affected his desire as well.

Even in his diminished state, he is dangerous, and is capable of beating anyone on heart and power alone. I actually thought he looked better tonight than he has since beating Machida, and would have finished most guys. Gus really impressed me with his chin. I think it is just time to accept Shogun as a dangerous top 5 to 10 LHW. His days as a PFP contender are over, and that is ok. He is still puts on exciting and competitive fights.

The truth. As a massive fan, it's tough to let go, but the shots he hit Gus with would have dropped 90% of LHWs.
Neither of them are beating Jones, but both top 5

 

[lallinho]

Bonezerelli,

I understand and I appreciate. I wish I could tell exactly everything I think. Maybe one day I'll write a book lol

Let's say that I'm very greatful for the opportunities he gave me, I like him a lot and I think he is one of the most talented fighters ever. It's really a shame to see him performing under the level he could and been satisfied with little performance as a standard. He can do much more, and he can be back stronger.

Life is made of choices, games evolve everyday and we only get older, which limits the margin of the mistakes we made. Some stuff that would work years ago, won't do it right now cause sport is not the same and we are not the same. The older you get, the more attention to detail you have to have and less "loose" in your routine you can be.

I'm very happy aiming my priorities now with my current fighters who are thinking on the same page as I do. I'm very happy with the work we have been doing with Demian, and other young kids, as those guys became my priority after we (me and Mauricio) unfortunately split. I'm happy, and I want to continue to do my work and let time answers a few things.

I REALLY wish him the best. Alex is a tough guy, proops to him, but it's up to Mauricio to get back to his best days, he can do it and I hope he will!

Like OP, I read this as an agreement that Shogun is phoning it in. Nothing in here about it being his knees that are the problem.
Thanks, Eduardo. We can appreciate that you are too classy to divulge any secrets or pass a negative opinion.
Here's hoping that Shogun realizes his window is closing and either steps up his training or retires with a good rep.

 

[thegreatpuma]

Eduardo,

First of all, thanks for posting as always. I just wanted to say that Demian has looked outstanding since moving down to 170.

 

[TheViking]

Well obviously Shogun who is a fighter would not shed light on his physical conditions. He'll always say his knees are '100 percent'

However, just put this into perspective. Mauricio Shogun Rua went through 3 reconstructive ACL surgeries. That's 3~4 years gone, period. No training, no improvement on technique, nothing. Take that into consideration and see where this occurred...oh, he had those surgeries at the age of 25~29.

There's two things we can take out from this. One, these injuries and surgeries occurred during an athlete's prime age (25~29) and two, see the inconsistency in the UFC whereas nearly perfect record in PRIDE?

Honestly, despite two ACL surgeries, Shogun still demonstrated unbelievable improvements in his game. The way he dismantled Liddell and Machida was spectacular. It seemed his boxing tightened up, lateral movements and even more improvements on kicks.

Then comes the third injury where he sustained it during the rematch with Machida while attempting to defend Machida's takedown. I'm speculating here, but I think this completely took Shogun out physically. He hasn't looked the same after 2010, period. My analysis is it had something to do with being the fact that the previous two injuries were on his left, but this new one was on the right. With two knees essentially shot, how is he able to train and push himself to his limits? Not to mention, Shogun's whole game throughout his career was built off of being a kicker. You can't kick when both of your knees are shot on numerous occasions.

Now, this is only looking at major injuries. Who the hell knows how many joint injuries he sustained while in practice/fights etc. The Shogun we've seen after 2010 was a guy with pure heart. A rock'em sock'em robot. While I respect that, I don't want Shogun to be known for his heart like Wanderlei and Murilo. The Shogun that gravitated me as a life long fan was the fact that he is a killer and an assassin. If he can't get back to that form, please Shogun, retire.

yeah i hear what you are saying. Definately didn't help with all those injurys. I'm still just wondering why it is his cardio has suffered so much. I guess it all adds up. I just haven't seen any video of him running. I think most fighters has running as a primary base cardio exercise.

 

[Mooner]

yeah i hear what you are saying. Definately didn't help with all those injurys. I'm still just wondering why it is his cardio has suffered so much. I guess it all adds up. I just haven't seen any video of him running. I think most fighters has running as a primary base cardio exercise.

Running is very hard on the joints. But that's not to excuse Shogun's questionable work ethic. Many coaches including Cordeiro said something like Shogun doesn't train as much as a champion should.



Obviously, if your knees are shot, you can't train like a normal athlete. Shogun can still swim etc for his cardio, but it's clear he doesn't. At this point, he's been the top in both PRIDE and the UFC, so probably his motivation isn't there. Shogun being a family man probably doesn't help with the intense training either.

I'm not saying Corderio is right in all aspect, we probably have to take it with a grain of salt. What is evident is that Shogun's knees are shot + he doesn't train as hard as he did in PRIDE? In my opinion, that calls for retirement. As his biggest fan, thanks for the memories, but I don't want to see him lose to guys like AG and Hendo in the fashion that he did and barely beating Vera.

 

[SnowBlynd]

I feel like shogun is mentally checked out. The knees are a part of it too. But you've gone to the top and had success some people feel like they don't have anything to proven. In a competitve context, that's a really bad mindset to have. You always have something to prove and you are only as good as your last performance

 

[SeattleFightFan]

The truth. As a massive fan, it's tough to let go, but the shots he hit Gus with would have dropped 90% of LHWs.
Neither of them are beating Jones, but both top 5

6. top 6.

not convinced both of em are ranked higher than Jones, Machida, Evans and Hendo. one of those 6 has to be #6 though i don't care which one (so far as i'm concerned, #2-6 are interchangeable.)

 

[Eduardo Alonso]

Thegreatpuma,

Thanks a lot. I think the move down in weight class was a right decision, but we also made some drastic decisions about training and stuff that we changed in his team and his training around early May. I'm happy that I can give my full attention to Demian and some of other kids here, and that they are appreciating it. Obviously when I was working with Mauricio I couldn't dedicate as much time to Demian as I do now, and before May I wasn't so directly involved into the everyday, the trainers and the training.

TheViking,

To answer you and pretty much everybody here: Obviously a bunch of injuries and surgeries must have a play into things. It's very difficul to assess how much, and personally I don't think that's a main reason for anything. That's my personal opinion.
The Hendo fight had ALL sorts of problems in training camp, and It's even tough to say things cause people always come criticizing as excuses, yadda yadda. If I made a mistake, it was to keep the fight and not pull out. I had all chances in the world to take him out of the fight, but he wanted to try and fight anyways, I agreed with him and thought he could win regardless of the adaptations we had to do in training. Granted he came close, it was a war and felt special to be part of history, but it was my responsibility for respecting his will and keeping the fight on. I think he really overcame himself in that fight considering the conditions to train we had, and I think as a team we did close to the best possible job considering the circunstances in training camp, and trainers deserve no fault at that time. One day Ill write a book and tell the whole story =)
Still, so considering the hard times we had to train for that fight, I personally don't think his knees are a big reason for anything. Maybe he won't be the same as in the Liddell fight cause of the knees. But maybe he could be very close to it, and until some other things are done in a different way it's tough to know if the knees or those things are the reasons. Personally I believe in the second option, cause I think he has all the talent in the world and he is still young. It's up to him and I think he can do it.

 

[Eduardo Alonso]

German,

Right now in the UFC I Manage only Demian Maia and Daniel Sarafian, TUF Brazil fighter. Daniel has been with me for close to two years now, and I'm happy to see his career going places now, finally, after he pretty much tried it all (ATT, BTT, Nogueira Brothers, etc).

Other than that I started Managing Wilson Reis about 6 months ago, and have a bunch of young kids on development like Irmeson Cavalcante Oliveira, Guilherme Sarafian (Daniel's younger brother), to name a few.

 

[Peteyandjia]

War Eduardo!

One of the nicest guys on sherdog

Good luck with your current and future stuff

 

[yossarian1979]

German,

Right now in the UFC I Manage only Demian Maia and Daniel Sarafian, TUF Brazil fighter. Daniel has been with me for close to two years now, and I'm happy to see his career going places now, finally, after he pretty much tried it all (ATT, BTT, Nogueira Brothers, etc).

Other than that I started Managing Wilson Reis about 6 months ago, and have a bunch of young kids on development like Irmeson Cavalcante Oliveira, Guilherme Sarafian (Daniel's younger brother), to name a few.

Yeah Eduardo, I am sure a lot of the fans on here, including myself are greatly appreciative of you taking time to write on the forums and taking the time to chat with all of us.

Question for you. Are you for or against fighters fighting teammates in organizations? What would be your strategy if two fighters from your camp ended up having to fight in one of the bigger leagues of MMA?

 

[Eduardo Alonso]

Yossarian,

That's a very good question. I'm not against it, but I don't think it should be rushed. I think the more professional the sport gets, the more fighters are well paid and sponsors pay top dollar, it's tough to completely avoid this situation and still want to be highly paid and call yourself a professional.
With that said, fighting is not Soccer, Volleyball, Tennis or whatever. They are there to fight and try to inflict damage on each other, so I think it should be avoid until it's necessary for both of them as their career develop. Like if one guy is a champion and the other becomes a top contender, or if one becomes Interim champ and the other is the champ or a contender, etc. If both got way high up in the ladder, they eventually have to fight if it's necessary. But I can't see them continuing to train together for that specific fight though.
But while they are still on the early stages of their careers, or even still starting in the UFC and there's a bunch of other guys for them to fight, then there's no reason to not avoid it, let alone force it. That's my take on it.

What do you think?