Serious Movie Discussion XXXV

[ufcfan4]

watched The Place Beyond the Pines. Pretty good. Previews kind of made it look way cooler than it was.

My big problem with movies like this is that one act almost always outshines the others, and its the only one i want to watch. In this case, the first was obviously the good one (and the kind of movie i expected the whole 140 minutes to be). Still pretty decent for something i rented on a whim.

I really liked it but felt exact same way...Gosling segment is above and beyond the remaining two and to a significant degree. I liked the Cooper segment cause Coopers gave a solid performance and cause Liotta is pretty much always worth watching (as is the judge from Ghostbusters 2 lol) but it was pretty much the same crooked cops stuff we've seen in 100s of movies and tv shows.

And the final act was sort of intriguing but the one kid had me grinding my teeth at what a thug ass low life he was. And it was nowhere near as interesting as the first sequence and really derived most of what was compelling about it from it's connection to act 1.

Dagget from Dark Knight Rises stole almost every scene he was in. Gosling was great. Probably one of the more convincing dramatic performances I've seen Mendes in.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Ah that's who he was! I couldnt put my finger on it. Dagget, you son of a gun.

 

[xenomorph4prez]

I rewatched Dredd for the 4th time and it is still a good watch. Does anyone know what was meant to be implied when Anderson reads Dredd's mind and says she senses anger and control and then starts to elaborate on the control when Dredd's superior tells her to stop? I don't know much about Dredd but that scene seems to imply that maybe Anderson isn't talking about Dredd controlling his anger but that maybe Dredd himself is under some kind of outside control(mind control possibly).

 

[Bullitt68]

Started grad school. The next 9 months are going to be fucking BRUTAL. I'm doing a fast-track Master's, but they're doing everything in their power to make sure you fucking earn that degree, cramming a ridiculous amount of work into an insanely short time period. The orientation was cool, though, sitting in a room with Tom Gunning and D.N. Rodowick. I definitely got off at the right stop :icon_chee

Arsenic >>>>>>> His Girl Friday >>> Bringing Up Baby

in terms of cary grant, hes probably coolest in HGF

Out of those three, for sure, as the other two are buffoon performances. All-time, though, it's The Philadelphia Story for me.

War of the Worlds is pretty good. I love the cinematography. Some of those shots are amazing, which helps the intensity. Like 2/3 of the movie is extremely intense. I hate the ending, though.

From the moment the son runs off like a moron, the movie tanks miserably. Up until then, it's an 8 or 9 out of 10, firing like a motherfucker, but by the end, it's like a 6 at best.

I finally realized that my favorite genre is sci-fi. I can't believe it took me this long to see it.

You know what comes next, right? You've got to list your favorite sci-fi movies now. And while you're thinking them over, I'll update you after having watched Se7en again a few days ago.

Se7en is up near the top of the list of movies I want to like so much more than I actually do (and with this, The Game, and The Social Network, this is par for the course). Whenever I watch that movie, I spend the whole time wanting it to be better, because based on the plot, there are no excuses for why it sucks so much. The script blows, Fincher's direction is worse, Pitt was even more terrible than I remembered, Paltrow is barely a blip, Spacey is wasted, and Freeman is just there.

The entire dynamic between Freeman and Pitt makes no sense, is written so clumsily, and performed like shit. The antagonism is extremely forced and the friendship over dinner is one of the most cringeworthy things in movies. And I don't think anybody involved in that film at any point knew what the fuck they were trying to do with Freeman. What the fuck was that character? He's no cynical Sam Spade, he's no smarmy Philip Marlowe, he wasn't a misanthropic Mike Hammer. What was he supposed to be? And what was he supposed to end up as? His "philosophy" was imbecilic and incoherent and never cohered in the film's Weltanschauung.

A filmmaker once said of Tarkovsky that he wasn't a great thinker but that he was a great practitioner, and I think that's quite a fitting a description for Fincher. Beyond the shitty script and the worse acting, the pursuit of such philosophically deep material was something neither Fincher nor his screenwriter were intellectually equipped for, and it shows in the finished product. However, as a great practitioner, much of Se7en's aesthetic is excellent, particularly the sequence where they follow the SWAT team into the sloth's place and most notably that magnificent sequence where they track down Spacey from the library records and he gets the drop on Pitt. Cinematically, the latter sequence is pure perfection from every perspective, especially the cinematography and the sound design, and not even I would dare attempt to take anything away from those few minutes. But beyond those few minutes, there's little of merit, IMO.

no love for To Catch a Thief in the Cary Grant catalog? I'm sure Ricky wouldn't dig it if he didn't like NXNW but I've always enjoyed it and usually watch it when it pops up on tv.

That's always been down near the bottom on my Hitchcock list. It's just so superficial, indeed superfluous.

And speaking of kids in Spielberg films- I caught some but not all of Empire of the Sun, a film I'd seen parts of when I was real young but never saw the entire thing. I have to say, maybe it was cause I didn't catch it from the beginning or that I wasn't completely paying attention (damn iPad) but I was having trouble really getting caught up in the story.

My thoughts when I watched it for Sigh:

Empire of the Sun was so. . .Spielbergy. Christian Bale was unbelievable, definitely made it worth the watch, but on the whole, it was just another Spielberg affair where nothing really felt significant and there was very little tension since you knew everything was going to work out literally perfectly, and sure enough, it did. And the only moments of real inspiration were, not surprisingly, the moments of the innocent beauty of childhood (Bale finding the busted plane, his weird relationship with the Japanese kid on the other side of the wire, his "friendship" with Malkovich), while the supposedly "heavy" moments (Bale's breakdown with the doctor, the fate of the Japanese kid) were painfully inept and laughably clunky, perfect examples of Spielberg's limitations as a dramatist.

It's also another one with a shitty ending.

His Girl Friday was fucking funny. Grant's delivery was flawless. Really liked Russell as well. Just a great movie experience.

Making up some ground :wink:

Seven Days in May was great. I loved the whole cast, and the way it's just driven by talking instead of "plot points." Lancaster was great, but I've noticed he squints a whole lot, and does this weird stop and start cadence.

I knew you'd enjoy this one. And as for Lancaster's weirdness, just wait until you see The Rainmaker and/or Elmer Gantry. Have him say weird shit with his weird way of speaking and it's a hell of a lot of loony fun, which is the reason one of my all-time favorite moments in Seinfeld is in the finale when Kramer is rambling about what a beautiful day it is and how there's something in the air and Jerry tells him he's turning into Burt Lancaster :icon_chee

Bull, you watch Across 110th Street?

Haven't gone back to the movie challenge yet. I'm going to close that out at a glacial pace, but I won't forget about it.

 

[theskza]

Just... fucking ouch. I think I genuinely might hate you, now.

I'm going to cry myself to sleep and reply tomorrow.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Started grad school. The next 9 months are going to be fucking BRUTAL. I'm doing a fast-track Master's, but they're doing everything in their power to make sure you fucking earn that degree, cramming a ridiculous amount of work into an insanely short time period. The orientation was cool, though, sitting in a room with Tom Gunning and D.N. Rodowick. I definitely got off at the right stop :icon_chee

best of luck holms.

 

[Bullitt68]

Just... fucking ouch. I think I genuinely might hate you, now.

I'm going to cry myself to sleep and reply tomorrow.

I know you're big on Team Fincher, but I've just never connected with him. I do still want to revisit Zodiac some day, but I think I've closed the book now on both Se7en and The Game, two of the most unfortunate blunders in contemporary cinema that would've likely been epic films had someone else been steering the ship.

I closed the book on Fight Club years ago, but I feel like it's been long enough that it's worth blowing off the dust and taking another look. Maybe somewhere down the road I'll double up on Fight Club and Zodiac.

best of luck holms.

 

[ufcfan4]

I know you're big on Team Fincher, but I've just never connected with him. I do still want to revisit Zodiac some day, but I think I've closed the book now on both Se7en and The Game, two of the most unfortunate blunders in contemporary cinema that would've likely been epic films had someone else been steering the ship.

I closed the book on Fight Club years ago, but I feel like it's been long enough that it's worth blowing off the dust and taking another look. Maybe somewhere down the road I'll double up on Fight Club and Zodiac.

Good luck with grad school, man. I'm sure you'll do awesome. Yea def dont close the book on Zodiac yet- I know since you're not sold on Fincher it might not be your thing but I feel it's superior to Seven and Fight Club (both of which I really like). I'm glad you mentioned the scene where Spacey gets the drop on Pitt because that's the other sequence that really stood out to me in that movie. Just totally awesome.

And speaking of Zodiac, Gyllenhaal, etc...saw Prisoners at the theater tonight. I thought it was terrific. So many things about it were well done- from the ominous beginning to the cinematography and the execution of the effective story. Gyllenhaal and Jackman were fucking tremendous. I don't know if Jackman does or doesn't get his due as an actor but if he doesn't, he should because he can pull off a wide variety of characters well.

 

[Bullitt68]

I saw Zodiac once, I remember that it was one of my last Blockbuster rentals, but I remember nothing except something creepy about a basement and a scene near/at the end in a pharmacy or something. That's it. I don't even remember if I liked it or not. I just know with 100% certainty I watched it once.

As for new movies: I'm seeing The Family tomorrow. I also really want to see Don Jon, and was debating which one to go to, but my friend and I both opted for De Niro

 

[in the]

This Is The End was great. Nice to see actors playing themselves for a change. Danny McBride stole the show. Awesome postapocalyptic comedy.

 

[Ricky13]

PRISONERS was really tight. Excellently controlled tense whodunnit brought down ever so slightly by the reveal. It's in fact so much more than a whodunnit. It works brilliantly as a study in grief after such events. I thought all the characters were beautifully fleshed out. The only one I actually detested was Bello's. As much as her character was fraught with grief I couldn't stand how she blamed Keller and spent her time thinking about nothing but herself and expecting all the courage for the family to come from him, as though as the man, only he needed to be strong. I hate female characters like that. Made me fucking angry. Get off your ass or go to therapy or whatever. Don't assign blame and leave the work to the man. It's the 21st century you know. You don't get to pick and choose when to be brave because you have a vagina.

That's no knock on the film. But she bothered me enough for me to vent. She played that one-dimensional character as well as could be played.

Jackman impressed massively, more for me than Gylenhall (sp?). He's gone up a notch for me.

Definitely one to watch. There's a period, I'd say the middle third, that is constantly riveting from one intense set-piece to another, and you get mildly exhausted emotionally by the end as a result.

 

[Spawned_Fighter]

wuxia like films, something that might have flew under the radar that yall really loved. i did look up some on wiki and imdb but i wonder if theres some gems yall would recommend

along the lines of crouching tiger, hero, house of flying daggers

 

[Sigh GunRanger]

lol this is spot-on

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

I've got one of them good problems. I've decided to spend a good deal of money at the movies this weekend. Saturday I'll be seeing both Prisoners and Blue Jasmine. The problem is the Sunday. They're showing Avatar - Special Edition in IMAX 3D, as well as Prometheus and Life of Pi in the same formats. I'm doing Life of Pi for sure because I like it that much. But I need to choose between the other two as I can only manage one of the two time-wise. I was never massively taken by Avatar (liked it didn't love it) but always thought that in IMAX it might be a different beast (saw it on a good 3D screen though, when I first saw it, but not IMAX). Now Prometheus, I've never seen because of the mixed response in general. I'm a massive fan of Alien and really like Aliens as well.

Which one of the two should I do? Part of me really wants to see Avatar in IMAX just because of the spectacle of it. Who knows when I'll get to see it in IMAX again for a while. But the film fan in me wants to give Prometheus a go. But would it be that much worse on Blu Ray?

Decisions decisions.....

i thought Prometheus was AND looked better than Avatar, plus you're an Alien fan. The latter is reason enough to give it the nod, IMO. Can't promise you'll like it, but there are definitely things for you to geek out about as a fan of the Alien mythology.

 

[Bullitt68]

lol this is spot-on

I love those old roasts. And yeah, Gorshin nailed that one.

 

[theskza]

Started grad school. The next 9 months are going to be fucking BRUTAL. I'm doing a fast-track Master's, but they're doing everything in their power to make sure you fucking earn that degree, cramming a ridiculous amount of work into an insanely short time period. The orientation was cool, though, sitting in a room with Tom Gunning and D.N. Rodowick. I definitely got off at the right stop :icon_chee

Congrats and good luck.

Your plans are writing and teaching about movies, correct?

You know what comes next, right? You've got to list your favorite sci-fi movies now. And while you're thinking them over, I'll update you after having watched Se7en again a few days ago.

Off the top of my head, the ones I haven't mentioned recently

Alien
Jurassic Park
Moon
Predator
the Transformers series
Children of Men
the new Star Treks
The Matrix
Gattaca

Now that I think about it, I love a lot of fantasy movies, too. LOTR, Star Wars, etc.

Se7en is up near the top of the list of movies I want to like so much more than I actually do (and with this, The Game, and The Social Network, this is par for the course).

I thought you loved The Game?

For me, the movies there is no such thing as movies I want to like. I either do, or I don't. For example, Prometheus. Do I want to like it? No. This is what I have to watch and it sucks. But do I wish it were 1000 times better? Of course. Who doesn't want a perfect movie?

The script blows,

I think it's genius. You talk about it some below, but can you elaborate on this more? And, is there anything you liked at all about it?

Fincher's direction is worse,

I don't know which statement is crazier: this or the one above. You say here his direction sucks, but you call him a great practitioner and compliment him below. To me, it seems your issues are with the script and the acting.

Pitt was even more terrible than I remembered, Paltrow is barely a blip, Spacey is wasted, and Freeman is just there.

Pitt is awful. I'll give you that.

I don't think Spacey is wasted at all. He only gets roughly 15 minutes of screen time, however, his presence is all through the movie. The opening credits (creepy as shit), the shootout, and the phone conversation all build up to him, and he does a fine job in those 15 minutes.

The entire dynamic between Freeman and Pitt makes no sense, is written so clumsily, and performed like shit. The antagonism is extremely forced and the friendship over dinner is one of the most cringeworthy things in movies.

"Performed like shit" I blame on Pitt. His character has many layers, and I doubt even today he'd be able to pull it off.

The antagonism: it's not forced. That's their characters. Almost polar opposites. Pitt comes in thinking he's hot shit on day 1, but Freeman quickly puts him in his place. Even with 4 years experience, he's basically starting over in this city, and quickly finds out it's nothing like Philly.

If anything is forced, it's the dinner scene, but it's still not cringeworthy for multiple reasons. It shows Mills' layers. The first thing he does when he gets home is wrestle with the dogs. Not only is he a hotheaded cop, he's a goofball, too. You get to know how nice Tracy is. You get some nice backstory and friendship, before they jump into the case. The scene pushes the narrative along.

And I don't think anybody involved in that film at any point knew what the fuck they were trying to do with Freeman. What the fuck was that character? He's no cynical Sam Spade, he's no smarmy Philip Marlowe, he wasn't a misanthropic Mike Hammer. What was he supposed to be? And what was he supposed to end up as? His "philosophy" was imbecilic and incoherent and never cohered in the film's

I have no idea who any of those people are, but he's obviously cynical and misanthropic, and I don't think he changes during the movie. At the beginning, during the investigation of the first crime scene, he's flabbergasted that a wife killed her husband. At the end of the movie when he quotes Hemingway, he says the world sucks but is worth fighting for. Same philosophy IMO.

I still don't understand your issue with Somerset. Are you looking for more out of his character?

Weltanschauung.

wut?

A filmmaker once said of Tarkovsky that he wasn't a great thinker but that he was a great practitioner, and I think that's quite a fitting a description for Fincher. Beyond the shitty script and the worse acting, the pursuit of such philosophically deep material was something neither Fincher nor his screenwriter were intellectually equipped for, and it shows in the finished product.

Ok, so here it seems like you're looking for more out of the movie. Do you want more reasoning out of John Doe, and why he did what he did?

However, as a great practitioner, much of Se7en's aesthetic is excellent, particularly the sequence where they follow the SWAT team into the sloth's place and most notably that magnificent sequence where they track down Spacey from the library records and he gets the drop on Pitt. Cinematically, the latter sequence is pure perfection from every perspective, especially the cinematography and the sound design, and not even I would dare attempt to take anything away from those few minutes. But beyond those few minutes, there's little of merit, IMO.

Do you remember anything from Fight Club and TSN that you enjoyed from a behind the camera standpoint?

I saw Zodiac once, I remember that it was one of my last Blockbuster rentals, but I remember nothing except something creepy about a basement and a scene near/at the end in a pharmacy or something. That's it. I don't even remember if I liked it or not. I just know with 100% certainty I watched it once.

There's some great moments in Zodiac. It's pretty sweet, but I don't know if you'll like it. Have you seen The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo? I think you'd like it more. But then again, I thought you'd have a change of heart on Seven. You're such a wild card.

This Is The End was great. Nice to see actors playing themselves for a change. Danny McBride stole the show. Awesome postapocalyptic comedy.

Agreed. I hate McBride, but he was hilarious.

 

[INTERL0PER]

Hey y'all, I used to post in here a while back under Bonged Kiwi but haven't for a long time. Recently swapped usernames and also started watching more movies again and thought I'd pop in to see how things are...

One of my favorite shows.

I've talked a lot about True Blood with a lot of people, but I've never been this flabbergasted. If there is one single aspect of that show that should be beyond reproach, it's the acting, which is, IMO, the greatest ensemble acting in the history of television.

Some things never change :icon_chee

Dude... I just... Sigh.

Yes, some of the performances in True Blood are good. A lot of them even. Hell, most of 'em. Some are even very good. But I don't think you can possibly call it the greatest ensemble acting in the history of television with such a terrible lead. Anna Paquin is tuuuuurrrrrible, and while the rest of the show is pretty good, they can't make up for her (or some of the other awfulness either).

I don't know that I'd really call any of the performances "great" either. The vampire king guy was close, but while he was a lot of fun I wouldn't really call his character or performance great. Ditto for the rest of the stand outs. I really enjoy a lot of them, but I wouldn't rank any of them near a Walter White, Bubbles, David Brent or Carmelo Soprano.

The Wire, Breaking Bad, Sopranos, The Office (UK) all have it beat, IMO.

A filmmaker once said of Tarkovsky that he wasn't a great thinker but that he was a great practitioner, and I think that's quite a fitting a description for Fincher. Beyond the shitty script and the worse acting, the pursuit of such philosophically deep material was something neither Fincher nor his screenwriter were intellectually equipped for, and it shows in the finished product. However, as a great practitioner, much of Se7en's aesthetic is excellent, particularly the sequence where they follow the SWAT team into the sloth's place and most notably that magnificent sequence where they track down Spacey from the library records and he gets the drop on Pitt. Cinematically, the latter sequence is pure perfection from every perspective, especially the cinematography and the sound design, and not even I would dare attempt to take anything away from those few minutes. But beyond those few minutes, there's little of merit, IMO.

I largely agree with your assessment of Fincher... although I think I disagree on your opinions of his films. If that makes any sense at all.

Fincher, for me, is similar to Kubrick (Kubrick > Fincher, btw) in that he's a technical master, but his films leave me feeling pretty cold in terms of emotion.

I used to love Fincher's films (Fight Club was one of my first "favourite film"s) but as I grow older I seem to grow further away from them. Particularly his older films like Se7en and The Game, the latter of which I never really enjoyed all that much to begin with.

However, I do think that both Zodiac and The Social Network are both very good films, if only for the fact that the technical ability/quality of those films is SO high that it really does make up for deficiencies in performance etc. So, while I may not be emotionally connected to them, I do enjoy them very much as technical clinics. The "filmmaking" is largely very, very good.

The editing, cinematography, sound design of both films is fucking impeccable. I'd also say that the performances are actually very good in both films too... Although not necessarily because of Fincher.

In Zodiac, it's largely because of it's style. Not a huge amount is required of the actors and the performances are built just as much through make up and editing as they are by the actors/script.

The Social Network is carried by a typically fast talking script by Aaron Sorkin and is held together by the unbelievable editing and structure.

So, while Fincher is not really an "Actor's Director", he does sometimes manage to get good performances, although so far it's more due to writing/editing (and of course, getting good actors helps too).

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

you are all getting friend requests. its time to beef up my friend list. i will take it personally if you decline.

 

[theskza]

Going plat, changing your name, sending friend requests. U bout dat life

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

i dunno why im still plat tbh. it should have expired 8 or 9 months ago, and i never paid for it.

but thats just between you and i