Economy 12 Years and $34 Billion Later, Canada's Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion Is Set To Complete.

[MikeMcMann]

If this project fails due to BC's tantrum, Canada gonna suffer a hell lot more than just "high prices". It also mean your Federal government's Constitutional rights don't actually mean anything, if provincial governments can just ignore it at will.

The more I read into Canadian politics, the more I'm surprised that perpetually-pampered Quebec was the province who demanded secession and not the consistently-shafted Alberta. Their tax dollars provides $12 billion in "equalization" subsidy to other provinces every year, yet all they got back are hostilities and contempt.

If Alberta ever want to leave all that bullshit behind and join the U.S as the 51st state, I'd welcome them with open arms.

PS: Just saw this epic rant by an Albertan:

The welfare recipient (Quebec) rarely appreciates the welfare giver (AB) and often resents them for their wealth.

Even as AB is going through one of the worst regional recessions since the 2007/8 Banking crisis the federal gov't still takes more money from AB and gives it to provinces that have been doing well and prospering during the oil downturn, including Quebec.

----------------


Alberta gives more than it gets from federal government

...Alberta contributed more money to the federal purse than any other province in Canada from 2007 to 2015, and has received fewer dollars in return, according to a study released Thursday.

...

“It’s really impossible to get away from the fact that without a strong Alberta, without Alberta’s contribution to Canada and to federal finances, our federal finances would be an absolute mess,” Eisen said.

The report said that of the $158.3 billion paid out in equalization payments from 2008/09 to 2017/18, roughly $28.1 billion came from Alberta.

It said none of that money has flowed back into Alberta. And it said the province continues to “contribute disproportionately” despite its recent economic woes...

...
In the midst of the oil boom, between 2004 and 2014, the report said Alberta created 32.5 per cent of all private sector jobs in the country, despite “having only 11.7 per cent of the country’s population.”

Just two years ago, in 2015, the report said Albertans paid about 63 per cent more in federal tax dollars than other Canadians.

Without revenue from Alberta, the report claims Ottawa would have seen big deficits every year since 2009.

 

[Wet Blanket]

Shipping by rail kills people.

Only because our railroad infrastructure is crumbling.

 

[milliniar]

In this case the bc government is listening to the people. In this case they can drag their feet till forced by the feds and the people will cheer.

 

[Prokofievian]

Only because our railroad infrastructure is crumbling.

Too bad Trudeau punted infrastructure spending another year down the road. One would have to think that infrastructure spending would be the single most popular new initiative in Canada, given how shit our infrastructure is, but here we are.

 

[Wet Blanket]

Too bad Trudeau punted infrastructure spending another year down the road. One would have to think that infrastructure spending would be the single most popular new initiative in Canada, given how shit our infrastructure is, but here we are.

All the previous governments have let it slide. Some of the materials used for our bridges and overpasses are nearing end of life and we will be seeing more structural failures soon.

Could be a lot of money and jobs in replacement and repair if we could get that ball rolling.

 

[Prokofievian]

All the previous governments have let it slide. Some of the materials used for our bridges and overpasses are nearing end of life and we will be seeing more structural failures soon.

Could be a lot of money and jobs in replacement and repair if we could get that ball rolling.

It would be wildly popular, IMO, and who could even argue? The conservatives would try to make the ''big government, tax and spend libs'' argument, but Canadian infrastructure is frankly embarrassing to any Canadian who has spent any time out of the country. Right now we've got a deficit without any of the goodies deficits are meant to be spent on and a bunch of polarizing policies which have limited economic impact on the country.

Just watch, interest rates are going to climb and then it ''won't be profitable anymore.'' The first prime minister to work up the chutzpah to say ''fuck it, we're just going to pay for it'' will be the next Tommy Douglas.

 

[Arkain2K]

Shipping by rail kills people.

1) Rail is but a temporary relief valve with limited capacity while pipelines are built.

2) It is much more dangerous and more prone to spills.

3) Due to the 33% extra costs to transport it to the Gulf Coasts by rail ( $12 per barrel instead of $8 per barrel by pipeline), Alberta is losing about $20 Million in revenue everyday.

4) The railways already maxed out their capacity since last year. The crude inventory build-ups with no way to export them means each barrel of Western Canada Select heavy crude is now trading at a $20-$30 discount below each barrel of West Texas Intermediate.

5) Lastly, the B.C government is trying to stop Alberta from transporting oil by rail as well.

 

[ShoelessRye]

The welfare recipient (Quebec) rarely appreciates the welfare giver (AB) and often resents them for their wealth.

Even as AB is going through one of the worst regional recessions since the 2007/8 Banking crisis the federal gov't still takes more money from AB and gives it to provinces that have been doing well and prospering during the oil downturn, including Quebec.

----------------


Alberta gives more than it gets from federal government

...Alberta contributed more money to the federal purse than any other province in Canada from 2007 to 2015, and has received fewer dollars in return, according to a study released Thursday.

...

“It’s really impossible to get away from the fact that without a strong Alberta, without Alberta’s contribution to Canada and to federal finances, our federal finances would be an absolute mess,” Eisen said.

The report said that of the $158.3 billion paid out in equalization payments from 2008/09 to 2017/18, roughly $28.1 billion came from Alberta.

It said none of that money has flowed back into Alberta. And it said the province continues to “contribute disproportionately” despite its recent economic woes...

...
In the midst of the oil boom, between 2004 and 2014, the report said Alberta created 32.5 per cent of all private sector jobs in the country, despite “having only 11.7 per cent of the country’s population.”

Just two years ago, in 2015, the report said Albertans paid about 63 per cent more in federal tax dollars than other Canadians.

Without revenue from Alberta, the report claims Ottawa would have seen big deficits every year since 2009.

What about before that time? I mean I get it now they're doing the heavier lifting, but was it always that way? Did the Ontario economy bankroll the development of Alberta in the past?

 

[Snackbar]

I'm curious to know what the water warriors in BC think of Horgan offering millions in incentives to resurrect the Kitimat LNG terminal. Oh wait they tell themselves that LNG is a "green" fossil fuel. Lulz

 

[MikeMcMann]

What about before that time? I mean I get it now they're doing the heavier lifting, but was it always that way? Did the Ontario economy bankroll the development of Alberta in the past?

Ontario and Alberta and BC have been the mainstay Provinces in terms of transfer payments out to other provinces. Ontario was a net recipient of transfer payments just recently and AB has been in the past. but young Trudeau has been in no hurry to provide any significant relief to AB in this most recent deep recession and downturn. AB is still sending out money that QB is benefiting from despite the fact QB has been booming with the lower dollar since oil dropped.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I'm curious to know what the water warriors in BC think of Horgan offering millions in incentives to resurrect the Kitimat LNG terminal. Oh wait they tell themselves that LNG is a "green" fossil fuel. Lulz

the right hands have been greased.

The LNG project and its pipelines and ports in the same areas that the AB oil is supposed to travel are having non of the issues AB oil is having.

 

[Arkain2K]

Meanwhile, Canada is starting a trade war with itself.

While their Federal government stood by idly and watch their provinces going for each other's throats.

Ever since the NDP/Green took the office in B.C last summer and immediately started a war against Alberta, all I have seen from the Trudeau's government is empty (prepared) lip service that's usually half an hour long but doesn't actually say anything about solving the problem.

At the end of the day, the pipelines-for-carbon-tax deal is contingent entirely on the premise that both sides of the agreement is upheld. If the pipeline half of the deal collapses, what does that mean for the future of the carbon tax?

 

[Bald1]

Meanwhile, Canada is starting a trade war with itself.

Most of BC and the Greater Toronto Area (aka the center of the universe) are liberal strongholds. Like, make you look like a stuck in the mud conservative. Also they're the center of commere, shipping, business, etc. Some of the most beautiful country you'll ever see home to many waterheads. Many folks in BC hate Alberta tourists for some reason.

Quebec are playing their own game and consider themselves apart and not quite Canadian. They've been a black hole of funds since I can remember and don't contribute to the rest of the nation. Useless dead weight as it comes to our economy.

All seven people living in the northern territories are either clubbing baby seals or playing tag with polar bears when not drunk. I know next to nothing of our frozen northern brothers. Unfortunately.

The maritimers want to work, but the opportunity is lacking. Sorry to say I'm not up to speed on their economic developments. I know there's opportunity for offshore drilling, but I'm not sure to what extent they're taking advantage of it.

The prairies are home to some of the most industrious people I've ever known or heard about. We also like our booze to the tune of being the number one per capita consumers in Canada. And that's impressive. Here in Alberta we live and die on oil and have put much more than our share into the Canadian piggy bank over the last 25 years. Since the Saudis have started messing with oil prices we've suffered.

Well, what was supposed a few lines saying that BC (on the whole) whole is more concerned about the environment (a good thing), us here in Alberta are very much about making use of out oil resources (also a good thing). You can see where the conflict comes from.

 

[BrotherClaudio]

One would think, with it being trans, it would be praised in Canada

 

[Arkain2K]

Okay Justin, but what exactly are you gonna do about B.C's utter disregard for Federal authority and killing that national interest?

 

[Scheme]

Alberta should just threaten to spill oil into the ocean if BC doesn't comply.

 

[Grenz]

Most of BC and the Greater Toronto Area (aka the center of the universe) are liberal strongholds. Like, make you look like a stuck in the mud conservative. Also they're the center of commere, shipping, business, etc. Some of the most beautiful country you'll ever see home to many waterheads. Many folks in BC hate Alberta tourists for some reason.

Quebec are playing their own game and consider themselves apart and not quite Canadian. They've been a black hole of funds since I can remember and don't contribute to the rest of the nation. Useless dead weight as it comes to our economy.

All seven people living in the northern territories are either clubbing baby seals or playing tag with polar bears when not drunk. I know next to nothing of our frozen northern brothers. Unfortunately.

The maritimers want to work, but the opportunity is lacking. Sorry to say I'm not up to speed on their economic developments. I know there's opportunity for offshore drilling, but I'm not sure to what extent they're taking advantage of it.

The prairies are home to some of the most industrious people I've ever known or heard about. We also like our booze to the tune of being the number one per capita consumers in Canada. And that's impressive. Here in Alberta we live and die on oil and have put much more than our share into the Canadian piggy bank over the last 25 years. Since the Saudis have started messing with oil prices we've suffered.

Well, what was supposed a few lines saying that BC (on the whole) whole is more concerned about the environment (a good thing), us here in Alberta are very much about making use of out oil resources (also a good thing). You can see where the conflict comes from.

I've spent many years in the Maritimes. I love NB and NS, but a simple fact is that most people with smarts and talent leave for better opportunities in ON or AB, Halifax being sort of the lone city where you can have a half-decent chance at a real career. The brain drain is very real, and what you're left with are a people who have been presented with a golden ticket that would lift them from their eternal 'have-not' status in the form of shale gas, but obviously, the majority is very much against it. This is their only chance, and they're adamantly opposed to the possibility.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

So BC wants the oil and gas but doesn't want the pipe line to carry it .

So but it in someone else's back yard but we still want the product.

So turn off the supply and they can all get back to nature.

It's far more complicated than that lol

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Most of BC and the Greater Toronto Area (aka the center of the universe) are liberal strongholds. Like, make you look like a stuck in the mud conservative. Also they're the center of commere, shipping, business, etc. Some of the most beautiful country you'll ever see home to many waterheads. Many folks in BC hate Alberta tourists for some reason.

Quebec are playing their own game and consider themselves apart and not quite Canadian. They've been a black hole of funds since I can remember and don't contribute to the rest of the nation. Useless dead weight as it comes to our economy.

All seven people living in the northern territories are either clubbing baby seals or playing tag with polar bears when not drunk. I know next to nothing of our frozen northern brothers. Unfortunately.

The maritimers want to work, but the opportunity is lacking. Sorry to say I'm not up to speed on their economic developments. I know there's opportunity for offshore drilling, but I'm not sure to what extent they're taking advantage of it.

The prairies are home to some of the most industrious people I've ever known or heard about. We also like our booze to the tune of being the number one per capita consumers in Canada. And that's impressive. Here in Alberta we live and die on oil and have put much more than our share into the Canadian piggy bank over the last 25 years. Since the Saudis have started messing with oil prices we've suffered.

Well, what was supposed a few lines saying that BC (on the whole) whole is more concerned about the environment (a good thing), us here in Alberta are very much about making use of out oil resources (also a good thing). You can see where the conflict comes from.

Historically BC has given little support to the federal liberals , growing up most people fucking hated them so not sure where you're getting this from

The issue as most people I know see it is that we are taking all of the risk and getting precious little benefit.

Furthermore I have a real problem with being told we are going to build this thing across your province whether you like it or not , fuck that

 

[Bald1]

Historically BC has given little support to the federal liberals , growing up most people fucking hated them so not sure where you're getting this from

The issue as most people I know see it is that we are taking all of the risk and getting precious little benefit.

Furthermore I have a real problem with being told we are going to build this thing across your province whether you like it or not , fuck that

Liberal, as in socially. BC has the "hippiest" vibe out of all of Canada. I've lived coast to coast dude, that's where I'm getting it from.

That's a valid argument. What do you proose?

It's not "your province" as long as you're a part of Canada. No, not fuck that. Lol.