Economy 12 Years and $34 Billion Later, Canada's Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion Is Set To Complete.

This whole thing is unbelievably stupid. If BC would've just stuck to the deal that the BC Liberals brokered this project would be built with private funds. But now KM essentially wants guarantees from AB and Ottawa in the form of a cash injection by buying stakes in the pipeline. The funniest thing is that if Ottawa uses taxpayer money to ease KM's mind this pipeline will essentially be built with the money of the people who oppose the project. I put alot of this on Trudeau, if he had come out and said from the get go "This is a federal project so hands off. If there's harmful rhetoric or obstructionism coming from the BC government towards this project then BC and it's taxpayers will be heavily penalized". But no. Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways.
 
Liberal, as in socially. BC has the "hippiest" vibe out of all of Canada. I've lived coast to coast dude, that's where I'm getting it from.

That's a valid argument. What do you proose?

It's not "your province" as long as long as you're a part of Canada. No, not fuck that. Lol.
I think we should be getting something more than a few jobs and or guarantees that WHEN there is a spill kinder Morgan and Alberta will shoulder the cost .

As far as being dictated to yes fuck that , would Alberta be ok if Ottowa said the bitumen stays in the ground ?

A Tanker spill would be devastating to BC , we should have the ability to say we don't want the risk of a huge increase in tanker traffic especially when get so little in return .
 
This whole thing is unbelievably stupid. If BC would've just stuck to the deal that the BC Liberals brokered this project would be built with private funds. But now KM essentially wants guarantees from AB and Ottawa in the form of a cash injection by buying stakes in the pipeline. The funniest thing is that if Ottawa uses taxpayer money to ease KM's mind this pipeline will essentially be built with the money of the people who oppose the project. I put alot of this on Trudeau, if he had come out and said from the get go "This is a federal project so hands off. If there's harmful rhetoric or obstructionism coming from the BC government towards this project then BC and it's taxpayers will be heavily penalized". But no. Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways.
The BC liberals (who were actually conservative and not to be confused with the federal liberals who are left of center for those not familiar ) lost for a reason , everyone knew the NDP were going to be taking a hard look at the pipeline , it's partly why they were elected , the project is pretty unpopular here .

Be very careful about " penalizing " BC, we are one of the main economic engines of the country , might be cutting off your nose to spite your face .
 
I think we should be getting something more than a few jobs and or guarantees that WHEN there is a spill kinder Morgan and Alberta will shoulder the cost .

As far as being dictated to yes fuck that , would Alberta be ok if Ottowa said the bitumen stays in the ground ?

A Tanker spill would be devastating to BC , we should have the ability to say we don't want the risk of a huge increase in tanker traffic especially when get so little in return .
Fair enough.

Would that be of financial benefit to BC, and by extention the rest of Canada? No? Next analogy...

I didn't realize all the oil money stays in Alberta. Fuck me. I legit should be a millionaire from the last 20 years.


Aside from me being a prick on this issue I'm very much pro environmental protection. At the same time a man's gotta make a living. So what to do, what to do..
 
Would Canadians go to war with each other or just settle it over a game of hockey and a case of shitty beer?
 
I think we should be getting something more than a few jobs and or guarantees that WHEN there is a spill kinder Morgan and Alberta will shoulder the cost .

As far as being dictated to yes fuck that , would Alberta be ok if Ottowa said the bitumen stays in the ground ?

A Tanker spill would be devastating to BC , we should have the ability to say we don't want the risk of a huge increase in tanker traffic especially when get so little in return .

Little in return? I don't think you know how many people rely in bc on oilsands for work. I think just this project was projected to bring 1,5 billion to bc based manufacturers in revenue. And BC is not its own country, this project was deemed to be in the interest of the whole of Canada. You do not own the ports, the coast or the refinery in Burnaby or this pipeline.
 
Little in return? I don't think you know how many people rely in bc on oilsands for work. I think just this project was projected to bring 1,5 billion to bc based manufacturers in revenue. And BC is not its own country, this project was deemed to be in the interest of the whole of Canada. You do not own the ports, the coast or the refinery in Burnaby or this pipeline.
So what's the point of provinces and borders if we have no dominion or say over anyting ?
 
Fair enough.

Would that be of financial benefit to BC, and by extention the rest of Canada? No? Next analogy...

I didn't realize all the oil money stays in Alberta. Fuck me. I legit should be a millionaire from the last 20 years.


Aside from me being a prick on this issue I'm very much pro environmental protection. At the same time a man's gotta make a living. So what to do, what to do..
It's not a simple issue , anyone who sees it as black and white isn't seeing clearly imo
 
The BC liberals (who were actually conservative and not to be confused with the federal liberals who are left of center for those not familiar ) lost for a reason , everyone knew the NDP were going to be taking a hard look at the pipeline , it's partly why they were elected , the project is pretty unpopular here .

Be very careful about " penalizing " BC, we are one of the main economic engines of the country , might be cutting off your nose to spite your face .

They didn't exactly "win". The propped themselves up with the assistance of the green party. It doesn't matter if the pipeline's unpopular, it's a federal project that has been approved after exhaustive reviews by the NEB and the BC libs. BC has no authority over it anymore.
 
So what's the point of provinces and borders if we have no dominion or say over anyting ?

You have no say over federal projects that have been approved by all parties concerned.
 
They didn't exactly "win". The propped themselves up with the assistance of the green party. It doesn't matter if the pipeline's unpopular, it's a federal project that has been approved after exhaustive reviews by the NEB and the BC libs. BC has no authority over it anymore.
Lol yes they won , they got the most votes.

And saying things like we have no authority over it anymore is akin to saying bend over and shut up and will only get people's backs up .
 
Lol yes they won , they got the most votes.

And saying things like we have no authority over it anymore is akin to saying bend over and shut up and will only get people's backs up .

The Libs won 43 seats, NDP 41 but they got propped up by the green party and got the majority of the seats that way. How did I not answer your question? You have plenty of say with what goes on in your province, who you elect decides how much you put in schools, hospitals, infrastructure. How much you tax people etc. This project went through 4 years of NEB review. It was then ok'd by the feds and the BC libs who were in power at that time and work on it was started. Now that KM has invested over a billion in the project it is out of BC's hands and it's up to the feds to oversee it's completion. Or do you think companies and people in Canada shouldn't trust that rule of law applies and their licences can be revoked at any time, because if that's what you feel maybe you'd be happier living in a banana republic somewhere. Besides according to the polls 48% of British Columbians support the project and 44% are opposed so you're in the minority. And finally stop thumping your chest about how supposedly powerful BC is, no one cares.
 
It's far more complicated than that lol

Well being from the US I don't know the details and can only go by what was posted and linked.

Given that, that's 2hat it sounds like.

However I'm sure BC believes they are right and have their side.
 
Does Trudeau have a Trans Mountain plan that goes beyond talk?
Even as Premier Notley warns of a constitutional 'crisis', the PM clings to the script
Chris Hall - CBC News | April 09, 2018

trudeau-victoria-20180405.jpg

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau seems determined to stick to his script on the Trans Mountain project, even as the project's supporters grow more alarmed at its prospects for failure.


Kinder Morgan issued an ultimatum on the weekend to the federal and B.C. governments over its proposed expansion of the Trans-Mountain pipeline.

It couldn't have been clearer. But the only government that appears to be taking it seriously is the one in Alberta.

To recap: Kinder Morgan said it is suspending all non-essential spending on the $7.4-billion project to expand the existing pipeline connecting the Alberta oilsands to the port of Vancouver-Burnaby. CEO Steve Kean went further and set a deadline — unless the company receives "clarity" by the end of next month on whether the work can be completed, Kinder Morgan might choose to just walk away rather than put more of his shareholders' money at risk.

That last bit certainly caught the attention of Alberta Premier Rachel Notley.

alberta-premier-rachel-notley.jpg

Alberta Premier Rachel Notley is warning of a constitutional 'crisis' over B.C.'s attempts to block the Trans Mountain project.

Her province, she said, will consider buying into the project if that's what it takes to get it done. She warned of the economic damage being done by the delay — not just to her province but to British Columbia, where fellow NDP Premier John Horgan remains adamant that the project poses a threat to both coastline and climate.

Notley also offered a warning Monday about what would happen to Ottawa's constitutional authority should the project fail to proceed.

A constitutional crisis?

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Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke to reporters in Montreal on Monday


"There are those out there who are, at this point, calling this moment we are in a constitutional crisis for the country," Notley said. "And I don't know really if that's too far off.

"If the federal government allows its authority to be challenged in this way, if the national interest is given to the extremes on the left or the right, and if the voices of the moderate majority of Canadians are forgotten, the reverberations of that will tear at the fabric of Confederation for many many years to come."

The Constitution's division of power doesn't appear to be uppermost in the prime minister's mind. His calculations are political.

The Liberals approved this project, allowing Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to claim he succeeded where the previous Conservative government failed in getting Alberta's bitumen to tidewater.

The project was part of the prime minister's effort to convince Canadians that it is indeed possible to be both pro-economy and pro-environment.

"That was our commitment," Trudeau said Monday. "And it goes together with a national price on carbon and a historic oceans protection plan that is going to keep our coasts safe. This is all a package together."

But it's a package without a bow.

Horgan says his government will continue to try to tie up the project. His calculations are just as political as Trudeau's. Blocking the project was a core campaign commitment of Horgan's just a year ago, and it's central to the pact signed with the three-member Green Party caucus — whose support the NDP needs to stay in power.

So what could Ottawa do to satisfy Alberta and B.C.?

How does Trudeau ensure the project gets built without jeopardizing the seats of federal Liberal MPs in B.C.'s lower mainland, where pipeline politics will play a big role in the next federal election less than two years from now?

Sticking to the script

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Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr says the government is keeping all options open to get the pipeline expansion built.


So far, Trudeau's approach appears to be to continue reciting the same talking points.

"We will continue to look at all our options, legal, regulatory and financial," Natural Resources Jim Carr said in an interview on Monday — speaking as if Kinder Morgan's ultimatum changed nothing, or the company's deadline isn't less than two months away.

Is the federal government prepared to follow Notley's lead and offer some financial commitment to Kinder Morgan?

"All options are on the table," Carr replied.

Is Ottawa prepared to withhold federal funding to British Columbia for, say, infrastructure projects or child care spaces and the like?

"We will examine everything," Carr said, "but I don't think talking quid pro quos is going to get us any closer to where we want to be."

The federal government also seems uninterested in referring the issue to the Supreme Court of Canada for a determination. Horgan repeated his government's willingness to refer its own question on jurisdiction to the B.C. Supreme Court. But given Kinder Morgan's new deadline, and the time it takes for cases to be heard, he's certainly in no hurry to start the process.

Trudeau also could invoke section 92(10)of the Constitution and declare the pipeline to be a project in the 'national interest', something federal Conservatives have urged him to do. But, as with most of the options, the constitutional tool comes with considerable risk to the government's political capital in a province where the Liberals want to hold on to as many seats as possible.

So the government continues with its old, standby refrains. All options are being considered. This pipeline will be built. Canada needs to get world prices for its oil.

The words are the same. The only difference is the new sound in the background:

Tick tock.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4611873
 
 
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Alberta willing to buy Trans Mountain pipeline if necessary, premier says
Wallis Snowdon · CBC News · Posted: Apr 10, 2018

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Alberta Premier Rachel Notley says the province will buy the Trans Mountain pipeline project outright, if that's what it takes to get it built.

On Tuesday morning, Notley said the federal government should be willing to put money into the project as well.

Then, in a statement issued later in the day, the premier said buying the pipeline is one of many options being considered to get construction ramped up on the project, which would triple the amount of oil going from Alberta to the B.C. coast.

Notley said over the weekend the province was looking at taking an equity stake in the line, but didn't talk about buying it completely.

Kinder Morgan deadline

The pipeline builder, Kinder Morgan, announced it was scaling back on the federally approved $7.4-billion project because of opposition and delays from the B.C. government.

Kinder Morgan has given the federal government until May 31 to offer concrete assurance the line will get built, and Notley has repeatedly called on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to take action.

"We are considering a number of financial options to ensure that the Trans Mountain expansion is built, up to and including purchasing the pipeline outright if were to come to that," Notley said Tuesday in the statement. "But it is not the only model we're considering."

Faced with stubborn opposition in B.C. and an ultimatum from Kinder Morgan, Notley initially suggested on Sunday the Alberta government might invest in the pipeline.

In an interview Tuesday with CBC Radio's Edmonton AM, the premier said the federal government should be willing to do the same.

"They put a lot of money on the table for Bombardier, they put a lot of money on the table for GM when the auto industry went into crisis," Notley said

"They've stepped up for other industries in other parts of the country and the workers that rely on those industries to support their families. And our view is that they're going to have to do it here soon."

Notley pitched the idea of backing the pipeline expansion after Kinder Morgan announced it is suspending all non-essential spending on the project in an effort to reduce the risk to its shareholders.

The premier said on Tuesday officials from her government are working with the Houston-based company, but declined to provide details, saying she did not want to "negotiate through the media."

Kinder Morgan Canada's CEO Steve Kean, speaking to analysts on Monday, said he was open to the idea but added that the company still needs clarity on building through B.C.

'Now is the time'

Federal cabinet ministers gathered Tuesday at an emergency meeting to find a way to convince Kinder Morgan to go forward with the project.

Government officials did not give any specific solutions to the pipeline standoff following the meeting.

The project was approved by the Trudeau government 17 months ago.

The federal government can force the B.C. government to "back off" either through the courts, legislative changes or by "backstopping the financial risk" to Kinder Morgan investors, Notley told the CBC.

"We're getting to a really critical point," she said. "I don't know why they didn't move faster, but I do know that they have the ability to do it now and fix this problem, and they need to.

"Ultimately [the pipeline] has a much bigger national implication in terms of how we function as a country. It's time the federal government come in and act like the federal government."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...peline-expansion-federal-investment-1.4612883
 
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Cabinet to hold emergency meeting Tuesday in bid to save pipeline expansion
The Canadian Press | April 9, 2018



OTTAWA -- Faced with an escalating battle between British Columbia and Alberta as well as a spooked investment community, federal cabinet ministers will gather Tuesday for an emergency meeting in search of a way to convince Kinder Morgan to go forward with its Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

The House of Commons is in the middle of a two-week break, during which times cabinet rarely meets. But ministers are hightailing it back to Ottawa to try and salvage the pipeline project they green-lighted 17 months ago.

Kinder Morgan announced late Sunday it was calling a halt to all non-essential spending on the project, giving Ottawa a deadline of May 31 to convince the company and its investors that the pipeline can prevail over the opposition that now threatens to block it.

The fight between B.C. and Alberta escalated Monday as Alberta Premier Rachel Notley promised legislation this week that would, once passed, give Alberta the ability to reduce domestic oil supplies into B.C. Such a move would cause already high gas prices in B.C. to spike, ramping up the pressure from pipeline proponents on the province to back down.

B.C. Premier John Horgan, however, heads a minority NDP government that clings to power only with the support of three Green party members under an agreement to fight the pipeline. So far, he's shown no sign of giving in.

The pipeline is within federal jurisdiction, but Horgan is trying to use provincial powers to limit how much oil -- ultimately destined for export markets overseas -- can flow through it, effectively killing any reason for expansion.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/cab...y-in-bid-to-save-pipeline-expansion-1.3877466
 
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