6 cops shot in 3 cities overnight

[Phr3121]

Crutcher was high on PCP, was acting bizarrely, and was not acknowledging Shelby's commands to stop, and instead continued toward his vehicle without acknowledging anything she was saying. Shelby was the first officer on the scene at ground zero, making a real time decision that her life was at risk based on his behavior. I don't think you have a sound understanding of the case.

Oh, I have a sound understanding of the case. I know about all the information you posted above. Funny how Shelby chooses to shoot while Turnbough chose to taser. Both next to each other. That should tell you something about the situation. Crutcher was not even facing Shelby and did not have a gun in his hand. I take it you are a cop. I can understand how you would want to side and defend another cop. Of course the jury is not going to convict her. If they did, no cop would ever shoot a person that was unarmed again. Which might be a good thing. ...and all this, and other similar incidents, eventually led us to the situation in Charlottesville, VA, where the police decided not to get involved. Avoid confrontations. But I think it was also politically motivated. Shelby left the Tulsa police department but now decided to come back as a reserve deputy.

 

[Phr3121]

I can think of lots of reasons I wouldn't want to be a cop, and the fear of assassination isn't really anywhere near the top 10.

- Stress
- You're hated and unappreciated but the citizens you're charged with protecting
- For the most part your only friends will be cops
- You detach from society and end up resenting the citizens you're charged with protecting
- Shit pay
- Tons of driving around
- Shift work
- Shit command

Kind of like being in the military.

 

[FacePunch]

Kind of like being in the military.

I think military get a lot more hero worship thrown towards them, and really don't get as much disrespect as the police. We're not in the Viet Nam era anymore and people see the police in their communities every day.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Oh, I have a sound understanding of the case. I know about all the information you posted above. Funny how Shelby chooses to shoot while Turnbough chose to taser. Both next to each other. That should tell you something about the situation. Crutcher was not even facing Shelby and did not have a gun in his hand. I take it you are a cop. I can understand how you would want to side and defend another cop. Of course the jury is not going to convict her. If they did, no cop would ever shoot a person that was unarmed again. Which might be a good thing. ...and all this, and other similar incidents, eventually led us to the situation in Charlottesville, VA, where the police decided not to get involved. Avoid confrontations. But I think it was also politically motivated. Shelby left the Tulsa police department but now decided to come back as a reserve deputy.

1) I'm not a cop, I just think people have an unrealistic view of police officers and are unable to put themselves in an officer's shoes of making life and death decisions in real time. Crutcher not facing Shelby was part of the problem, he was disobeying her orders to stop and continued moving toward his car, which she didn't know didn't contain a firearm, and has to assume it does for her safety. When a cop has her firearm drawn and is ordering you to stop, it isn't her fault that you are out of your mind as a result of knowingly taking an illegal substance that would make you that way (and driving a vehicle in that state).

2) As was mentioned many times in reports by the officers in this case, it is standard practice for one officer to have a firearm drawn and the other to have a taser. Shelby was the first officer on the scene, and had been the one interacting with Crutcher, so she had her firearm drawn, the others were arriving much later and were taking their cues from her.

3) I don't get what you mean that situations like this led to the situation in Charlottesville?

 

[Phr3121]

1) I just think people have an unrealistic view of police officers and are unable to put themselves in an officer's shoes of making life and death decisions in real time. Crutcher not facing Shelby was part of the problem, he was disobeying her orders to stop and continued moving toward his car. It isn't her fault that you are out of your mind as a result of knowingly taking an illegal substance.

2) The others were arriving much later and were taking their cues from her.

3) I don't get what you mean that situations like this led to the situation in Charlottesville?

1. I've just seen too many people (mainly black men) being killed by police for what I consider unjustifiable reasons in the last 3 years. I don't think that the fact that Crutcher was high on some drug makes it justifiable to kill the man. Poor argument. Crutcher was not a threat and had no gun. He was not facing Shelby and therefore could not have taken a shot at her. If drugs are the issue, cops can now freely shoot all the drunks and crack users they come in contact with. Who knows, they might be a threat and have a gun. Are cops afraid of their own shadow? Look at the Minneapolis police shooting of Australian Justine Damond.

2. 'The other 3 cops taking their cue from Shelby'. So, if Shelby is a complete fuck up and does not know how to access the situation, they will be fuck ups too? Each of the other 3 cops had sense enough to access the situation individually. They could have told her to hold her fire while they apprehend the suspect.

3. I was referring to situations where an unarmed black man is shot by police without provocation, what I said above on (1) on my first statement. How this over the last two years has created a hate for cops in the black community. Cops in Charlottesville were told to stay away from the protest. Why? Politics? I believe it has to do with not putting yourself in a situation where you are going to have to shoot someone. Cops are shying away from confrontation. I have nothing against the police in America. They have 100% of my support. I also believe that no cop takes pleasure in having to kill a human being regardless of the situation. But again, too many times guns are being drawn and used by police as a first resort instead of a last resort.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

1. I've just seen too many people (mainly black men) being killed by police for what I consider unjustifiable reasons in the last 3 years. I don't think that the fact that Crutcher was high on some drug makes it justifiable to kill the man. Poor argument. Crutcher was not a threat and had no gun. He was not facing Shelby and therefore could not have taken a shot at her. If drugs are the issue, cops can now freely shoot all the drunks and crack users they come in contact with. Who knows, they might be a threat and have a gun. Are cops afraid of their own shadow? Look at the Minneapolis police shooting of Australian Justine Damond.

2. 'The other 3 cops taking their cue from Shelby'. So, if Shelby is a complete fuck up and does not know how to access the situation, they will be fuck ups too? Each of the other 3 cops had sense enough to access the situation individually. They could have told her to hold her fire while they apprehend the suspect.

3. I was referring to situations where an unarmed black man is shot by police without provocation, what I said above on (1) on my first statement. How this over the last two years has created a hate for cops in the black community. Cops in Charlottesville were told to stay away from the protest. Why? Politics? I believe it has to do with not putting yourself in a situation where you are going to have to shoot someone. Cops are shying away from confrontation. I have nothing against the police in America. They have 100% of my support. I also believe that no cop takes pleasure in having to kill a human being regardless of the situation. But again, too many times guns are being drawn and used by police as a first resort instead of a last resort.

1) My argument wasn't that because he was high on PCP (not just some drug, the worst drug for cops to deal with) he deserved to be shot, it was that the PCP made him behave in a way that lead to his death.

2) Taking their cues from her to draw their tasers and not their guns, per protocol, because she has her firearm drawn. You need a firearm because tasers don't always work.



3) You don't provide any evidence for your argument, just your guess as to why. Law enforcement and government officials have stated what their strategies were, and it had nothing to do with Terence Crutcher or other high profile police shootings of black men. Furthermore, very few of the violent people in Charlottesville were black, so I just don't get see any connection.

 

[Phr3121]

3) You don't provide any evidence for your argument, just your guess as to why. Furthermore, very few of the violent people in Charlottesville were black, so I just don't get see any connection.

Yes, this is my personal opinion. As it relates to Charlottesville, it was not related to race but to possible killings by the police. It has already gone beyond a racial issue.

"In the weeks leading up to the protest, city and state officials put together a detailed plan for the rally, mobilizing 1,000 first responders, including 300 state police troopers and members of the National Guard. Judging from how events unfolded today, it appears that the strategy was to avoid direct confrontations with the protesters."

Story: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/police-stood-by-as-mayhem-mounted-in-charlottesville/

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Yes, this is my personal opinion. As it relates to Charlottesville, it was not related to race but to possible killings by the police. It has already gone beyond a racial issue.

"In the weeks leading up to the protest, city and state officials put together a detailed plan for the rally, mobilizing 1,000 first responders, including 300 state police troopers and members of the National Guard. Judging from how events unfolded today, it appears that the strategy was to avoid direct confrontations with the protesters."

Story: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/police-stood-by-as-mayhem-mounted-in-charlottesville/

I'm not saying that it's not possible, just that I don't see the connection. Even going to big cities on NYE, you see cops letting people get away with things they usually wouldn't when people are gathered in mass.

 

[CauseImbetta]

They should replace black lives matter with cop lives matter. Remove cops for 1 HOUR across the nation..watch what happens. Remove the other ...watch what happens.

You know it too.

 

[deadshot138]

Oh, I have a sound understanding of the case. I know about all the information you posted above. Funny how Shelby chooses to shoot while Turnbough chose to taser. Both next to each other. That should tell you something about the situation. Crutcher was not even facing Shelby and did not have a gun in his hand. I take it you are a cop. I can understand how you would want to side and defend another cop. Of course the jury is not going to convict her. If they did, no cop would ever shoot a person that was unarmed again. Which might be a good thing. ...and all this, and other similar incidents, eventually led us to the situation in Charlottesville, VA, where the police decided not to get involved. Avoid confrontations. But I think it was also politically motivated. Shelby left the Tulsa police department but now decided to come back as a reserve deputy.

Could be an issue with females in law enforcement. Women do love to....jump the gun.

 

[Phr3121]

Could be an issue with females in law enforcement. Women do love to....jump the gun.

That is a very good point. Women in general are smaller and weaker than men. My friends in the police force say they, male/female, get basically zero hand-to-hand training. Why take a chance of being overpowered when you can shoot to kill. Watch the video below. Two female officers cannot bring the suspect under control and one is about to loose her gun to the suspect. How pathetic. Thankfully a man steps in to help.