International Active US Air Force member self-immolates outside Israel Embassy in Washington

[Mr Holmes]

C'mon guys. There's no fighting in the War Room.

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

Too much of a wuss to just say it, gonna play games. Pathetic.

Too much of a wuss to say it?

I guess that you haven't seen too many of my posts in the numerous 100+ page threads on the fake Gaza "Genocide"

If you support Palestine, then you are a terrorist sympathizer. Simple as that.

That good enough for you?

 

[idrankyourbeer]

ladies, let's keep things civilized!

 

[deviake]

Too much of a wuss to say it?

I guess that you haven't seen too many of my posts in the numerous 100+ page threads on the fake Gaza "Genocide"

If you support Palestine, then you are a terrorist sympathizer. Simple as that.

That good enough for you?

And a moron, noted.

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

And a moron, noted.

Sorry, but unlike you and your Palestinian friends, I don't get off to Palestinians driving around with the dead naked corpses of innocent women in the back of pick-up trucks.

Remember when they laughed, cheered, and spit on those bodies as they were paraded through town?

I bet that you wish you were there to spit on their dead bodies as well.

It ain't so funny meow, is it?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Darn, I really thought some white privileged kid having a meltdown (literally) would have been the event that would finally resolve this beef between the Jews and Palestinians.

Calling him 'white privileged' reminded me of something.

I've made no secret that I'm former Army, and I know many soldiers that got out of Basic/AIT with a few screws loose, or went crazy during it, and that was during the height of the 2000s Iraq/Afghanistan war.

Once, when stationed at Ft.Irwin CA, I was ordered to drive to the Balboa Mental Health Facility in SanDiego - the military's west-coast looney bin - to pick up a soldier than was cleared to return to service after a suicide attempt. While I was waiting hours I was granted permission to roam around and make small-talk to the patients, all of which were still in uniform... and roughly 2/3rds of them were Marines, and half of them weren't even out of Basic yet. The rest cracked on deployment.

For those who don't know, Basic for Navy, Army, and AirForce is 9 weeks.
I can tell you for an absolute fact that no one in my entire platoon at Ft.Knox was as mentally healthy as Week 9 as Week 1.
And Marine Basic is 13 weeks.
I don't think I could have gone through another 4 weeks at Ft.Knox without cracking, and that's the Army's toughest Basic Forts, and all of Marines Basic Forts are tougher... supposedly.

If you think because you've seen Full Metal Jacket you have any idea how tough Basic Training is, I can tell you that's absolute Hollywood bullshit. 2004's Drill Sergeants are experts at getting within your mind and fucking with it. R Lee Ermy is practically a 2nd grade elementary school teacher compared with 2004's Drill Sergeants.

Wichita KS has McConnell AirForce Base, which I've been to many many times, and the enviroment there is extremely casual... practically civilian-like.. amongst the active-duty companies. They don't do Basic there, but it backs up my assumption that the AirForce is, by a very wide margin, is the most 'relaxed' branch of the military, and I believe their Basic Training are of the same toughness when compared to the other branches.

BTW, somebody that I was squadmates with in Ft.Knox was former Navy, who had gone through their Basic, and he was pretty tough guy and not a whiner... he told me in confidence that what we were going through wasn't just borderline abusive, it was outright abusive. That's why I can conclude Ft.Knox's Basic Training is significantly tougher than the Navy's.

So, if Bushnell was active-duty Army or Marines, I could sympathize with him a bit, understand he may have cracked during Basic/AIT, was never diagosed with a mental illness and it got worse until yesterday's events. But he was AirForce, which by reputation has the easiest Basic, and not during a time of war.

He was just pathetically weak.



Holy shit that was much longer than I initially thought it was going to be. If you read all of that kudos to you.

 

[deviake]

Sorry, but unlike you and your Palestinian friends, I don't get off to Palestinians driving around with the dead naked corpses of innocent women in the back of pick-up trucks.

Remember when they laughed, cheered, and spit on those bodies as they were paraded through town?

I bet that you wish you were there to spit on their dead bodies as well.

It ain't so funny meow, is it?

And a moron, noted.

 

[tastaylvr]

Why? Because he has a mythical status you lend credibility to? He lived in the mountains with very little human interaction, while praying 9000 times a day and meditating. What a full life. I'm very jealous.

If he was some Christian hermit, you'd call him a retard.

Christian hermits, Buddhists and salafi muslims share very similar insights about mind and god.

You are ignorant about this field.

 

[Blayt7hh]

This is the kind of arrogance in one's positions that I simply cannot comprehend... Genuinely man, how arrogant are you if you think that 7 billion people on the planet should not rethink their position at all because of what this guy did?

I don't think you realize how profoundly arrogant and self-centered a position like that is. And I am granting you here that you personally shouldn't change your position on anything because of it.... But to assume that nobody should be moved by what this man did and reconsider their positions and see things differently isn't defensible.

It's actually even hard for me to understand how you thought this post out frankly... Yes, someone could be moved deeply by what he did as I have been... a gravity and a seriousness that might have been lacking can set in as it has for me. That could cause millions of people to look more deeply into the situation when they hadn't before or weigh certain facts differently than they did before. And I think it's laughable that you expect one man to hold every bit of value on this topic rather than just contributing his piece to the greater whole

I think you are arguing against reality here in favor of just your own narrow perspective and that's granting you that you can keep your perspective!

I'm shocked how many people can't think beyond their own positions about things and it seems like a real loss of logic and reason has set over our whole country even. I don't think it's a measure of intelligence, but I think being able to think thoroughly through and see the value in positions that are not your own is a mark of the sincere use of intelligence.

This is just entirely ironic. I’m arrogant. Yet you think because you were moved by this man’s action, 7 billion people should be too?

You asked me how I can think that, but I explained it pretty clearly. Then you try and invoke logic as if I’m the one who abandoned it.. when I literally explained to you in the quoted post that it’s a logical fallacy to rethink your position because of what he did. One of the first things you learn in logic ffs.

My favorite part is where you basically said his act could call it’s attention to millions of people, which is all I said it should reasonably be able to do. Weren’t you all pissy in another thread when I didn’t go line by line with your long posts, yet you managed to miss one of the few points in my like five sentence post? Bravo

You failed to explain why he’s caused you to rethink other than this self righteous bullshit about how empathetic you are. You don’t know my position, or how much I’ve thought about it, so don’t act like you have any right to pass judgment. It’s frankly staggering to me that that is the response you came back with after reading my post. It seems all intelligence and reason has abandoned certain people of this country.

 

[dirtypablo]

Why? Because he has a mythical status you lend credibility to? He lived in the mountains with very little human interaction, while praying 9000 times a day and meditating. What a full life. I'm very jealous.

If he was some Christian hermit, you'd call him a retard.

Because I've experienced the firsthand effects of doing intensive spiritual practices. I can't even imagine what the conscious experience of a monk is like, but I know where you can get meditating 10+ hours a day for a even just a few days in a row. So, while I don't know what it's like to be a monk, I do have some reference point for my comment. I would wager that most people who have spent some real time doing intensive practice would agree with me.

Have you ever spent a week or more seriously dedicating yourself to some form of spiritual practices? Because if you haven't, you really have no idea what you're talking about here.

And no, I respect mystics and true spiritual seekers from all traditions, including Christianity.

Also, have you ever actually read anything about his life? While he did spend a lot of time on solitary retreat, he was also a fairly productive, highly accomplished part of the monastic community who did a lot of work building temples, leading organizations and so on. The idea that he spent his life without human interaction isn't true, nor is it accurate to say he didn't live a full life, even if you don't believe in the spiritual aspect.

Edit: I would also add that it's a bit silly and diminishes what he did when you refer to him as having mythical status, as if the core part of what he did wasn't clearly documented. The man set himself on fire and burnt to a crisp without moving or uttering a sound. That's not a myth, he did it, it's on film and was witnessed by hundreds of people.

 

[terrapin]

This is just entirely ironic. I’m arrogant. Yet you think because you were moved by this man’s action, 7 billion people should be too?

You asked me how I can think that, but I explained it pretty clearly. Then you try and invoke logic as if I’m the one who abandoned it.. when I literally explained to you in the quoted post that it’s a logical fallacy to rethink your position because of what he did.

You failed to explain why he’s caused you to rethink other than this self righteous bullshit about how empathetic you are. You don’t know my position, or how much I’ve thought about it, so don’t act like you have any right to pass judgment. It’s frankly staggering to me that that is the response you came back with after reading my post. It seems all intelligence and reason has abandoned certyoain people of this country.

you are either lying intentionally or you are not reading my posts. I will accept either reason you give... either way its below the dignity of sincere conversation and that of any educated person. you should read my position carefully and respond to it not lie or else not read and still respond.

I NEVER said anything that could even be taken to mean I think 7 billion people should be moved by this man. why lie like that?

YOU can think any way you choose. I literally don't care. I mean that.... what you CANNOT do but have tried to do is claim that his actions SHOULD NOTor will not influence any one else's thoughts on the matter. this is indefensible obviously and profoundly arrogant too. its not an a fallacy of any kind... YOU do not get to do the thinking for 7 billion people or set the terms for when or IF they even think about it deeply. it is YOU who are pretending to have some kind of certainty on the matter that you DONT have.

try to actuality read and respond to what I have said rather than lie and strawman.

 

[Blayt7hh]

you are either lying intentionally or you are not reading my posts. I will accept either reason you give... either way its below the dignity of sincere conversation and that of any educated person. you should read my position carefully and respond to it not lie or else not read and still respond.

I NEVER said anything that could even be taken to mean I think 7 billion people should be moved by this man. why lie like that?

YOU can think any way you choose. I literally don't care. I mean that.... what you CANNOT do but have tried to do is claim that his actions SHOULD NOT influence any one else's thoughts on the matter. this is indefensible obviously and profoundly arrogant too. its not an a fallacy of any kind... YOU do not get to do the thinking for 7 billion people or set the terms for when or IF they even think about it deeply. it is YOU who are pretending to have some kind of certainty on the matter that you DONT have.

try to actuality read and respond to what I have said rather than lie and strawman.

Just lol

Here you go from your post:

“Genuinely man, how arrogant are you if you think that 7 billion people on the planet should not rethink their position at all because of what this guy did?”

And you know, for the third fucking time no one should rethink it if they already have a well thought out position. Because logic

 

[terrapin]

Just lol

Here you go from your post:

“Genuinely man, how arrogant are you if you think that 7 billion people on the planet should not rethink their position at all because of what this guy did?”

Yes exactly. it is arrogant of YOU to think that out of 7 billion people NOBODY should rethink things because of what he did. you also pretend it will be a fallacy to do so.

its profoundly arrogant and small minded and petty even.

my position is that nobody can state with certainty that what he did stemmed from insanity and nobody can say that what he did will do no good either and yet we have many posters pretending certainty on both accounts when there are 7 billion people on the planet they know nothing about.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Yes exactly. it is arrogant of YOU to think that out of 7 billion people NOBODY should rethink things because of what he did. you also pretend it will be a fallacy to do so.

its profoundly arrogant and small minded and petty even.

my position is that nobody can state with certainty that what he did stemmed from insanity and nobody can say that what he did will do no good either and yet we have many posters pretending certainty on both accounts when there are 7 billion people on the planet they know nothing about.

Wait, do actually even know what I mean when I say it’s a logical fallacy and emotional manipulation? Because it honestly does not sound like it in this post

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Now do Israel apologists.

Israel just had the worst terrorist attack on Jews resulting in the most deaths in a single day since WW2.

Hamas is cowering behind compliant innocent children in Gaza, in hospitals, school, and apartment complexes. IDF gives an hour notice to a location before they bomb it.

The innocent children of Gaza have been mind-wiped by the Quran into believing dying in IDF missile attacks is a guaranteed trip to heaven as martyrs.

You leftist atheists should be more outraged at that than anything.

Oh by the way, Egypt and open their borders and let the Palestinians in at any time. But they won't.
None if the dozen of Islamic countries within a few thousand miles of Gaza will accept one Palestinian.
And none of you Israel-haters know, or care, why.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Sorry, but unlike you and your Palestinian friends, I don't get off to Palestinians driving around with the dead naked corpses of innocent women in the back of pick-up trucks.

Remember when they laughed, cheered, and spit on those bodies as they were paraded through town?

I bet that you wish you were there to spit on their dead bodies as well.

It ain't so funny meow, is it?

@deviake

 

[Blayt7hh]

Yes exactly. it is arrogant of YOU to think that out of 7 billion people NOBODY should rethink things because of what he did. you also pretend it will be a fallacy to do so.

its profoundly arrogant and small minded and petty even.

my position is that nobody can state with certainty that what he did stemmed from insanity and nobody can say that what he did will do no good either and yet we have many posters pretending certainty on both accounts when there are 7 billion people on the planet they know nothing about.

You know what here you go:

Appeal to Emotion Fallacy | Definition & Examples

Appeal to emotion fallacy occurs when someone tries to convince another person by evoking their feelings rather than providing evidence. With the appeal

www.scribbr.com

He provided no argument for why Palestine should be free. He did something dramatic that got you “rethinking” your position.

Hence a logical fallacy.

You should not rethink your position because he actually gave you no reason to do so.

The more you fucking know

 

[terrapin]

Wait, do actually even know what I mean when I say it’s a logical fallacy and emotional manipulation? Because it honestly does not sound like it in this post

first accept that you misunderstood my position and admit that I have never argued that 7 billion people should agree with me or change their position based on what this man did.. you also moved the goal posts to "well thought out positions' in your last post but here is what you said to begin the dispute between us..

From a logical standpoint, his actions should not affect how you think about the situation. Even with what you said, that you would think differently about it and more deeply now, frankly you shouldn’t. That’s just emotional manipulation and a literal logical fallacy.

All he did was draw attention to a situation. He made no actual argument for his case.


here is my position in full.

sacrificial love Is NOT insanity. it is a love deeper than a love for oneself. it can be the very height of love even. this man may be insane BUT its not a necessary conclusion to make. he may be motivated by profound and selfless love. and that love may change how people think about this issue deeply on many levels. it has changed the way I think about it deeply. it HAS done some good already contrary to those that pretend NO good could come from it.

i also think in this profoundly selfish culture schooled neither in theology nor philosophy very few people even have the capacity to recognize or respond to selfless love. they know nothing of it in the first place in order to spot it even. they cannot even conceive of a human being who might do such a thing from SANITY.


I have also argued that many people wont think about what he did deeply ONLY because they disagree with his understanding of the situation but that would/should have no bearing on what HIS understanding and motivations are.

 

[deviake]

@deviake

 

[KOByFootStomp]

Too much of a wuss to say it?

I guess that you haven't seen too many of my posts in the numerous 100+ page threads on the fake Gaza "Genocide"

If you support Palestine, then you are a terrorist sympathizer. Simple as that.

That good enough for you?

But but be clear and just say it, I'm tired of reading between the lines here