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Ohhhhhhh. Thanks, that makes sense.
ADCC 2015 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter SuperSuperRambo
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Ohhhhhhh. Thanks, that makes sense.
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It seemed much more probable that Rodolfo just finally ran out of energy, but he did flip out really hard when they got a warning about possibly faking.
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From Cyborg's FB page:
"I want to thank the love and support of all. I prepared myself to fight like I never prepared myself before. I believe that everything happens for a reason. Unfortunately I have a heart problem that happens from time to time called tachycardia and unfortunately happened before the fight. I had tachycardia warming Up for the fight and i could not recover in time. IM not taking at all the merits of Andre as he is a great athlete and fought hard. But unfortunately I could not fight this time. I am saddened by the feeling of helplessness of not having what to do, and I have not been able to represent myself. Im sorry for today!
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�� I'll keep working hard and I'll be back! Thanks to All"
This explain why he looked the way he did and why he has looked horrible some of his matches in the past.
"I want to thank the love and support of all. I prepared myself to fight like I never prepared myself before. I believe that everything happens for a reason. Unfortunately I have a heart problem that happens from time to time called tachycardia and unfortunately happened before the fight. I had tachycardia warming Up for the fight and i could not recover in time. IM not taking at all the merits of Andre as he is a great athlete and fought hard. But unfortunately I could not fight this time. I am saddened by the feeling of helplessness of not having what to do, and I have not been able to represent myself. Im sorry for today!
��
��
��
�� I'll keep working hard and I'll be back! Thanks to All"
This explain why he looked the way he did and why he has looked horrible some of his matches in the past.
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"Not taking anything from Andre but..."
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Fair enough, he honestly didn't look himself, esp the guy who won in 2013, but Andre was on fire tonight as well. Came out ready to fight.
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Andre is always a gamer. Win or lose that man comes to fight.
Cyborg just looked like a different person tonight.
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watching the replay....did they not show the Geo v. Tanq match? heard it was a toe hold, i've never seen geo tap
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Nope it was never played. I don't think it was even mentioned in the commentary how it happened either.
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While I don't disagree with you that the -1 penalty for the guard pull may not be the best rule, I think you're overreacting.
What's everybody's first complaint at top gi tournaments? Guard pulling. Now an organization takes a fairly small step to discourage what everyone complains about, and now we complain that they don't pull guard enough.
Even though I detest guard pulling, though, it should only be penalized during the points portion of the fight - but that wouldn't fix anything. Calasans and Rocha would still be trapped fighting for takedowns because neither of them could afford a penalty (granted, they were able to apparently afford a total of 5 stalling penalties between them).
I'm not sure if a "mediocre wrestler" would win, because the penalty doesn't mean that you can't pull guard. A few people did, and if you're comfortable enough in guard, you may get the tap on a mediocre wrestler. They are free to enter the qualifiers to enter and win it all.
I'm also frustrated, but I think our frustration is pointed at the wrong people. A single rule is not going to ruin a tournament. I think that apparently so many of these grapplers completely ran out of cardio (especially the ones that only competed in the Absolute division in day 2) is suspect. If Calasans and Rocha could pull guard, we probably would have got exactly what we saw at the start of the match - one guy laying in the others' guard, doing nothing.
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he looked tired!
i hope he didnt gift it to rocha because he was so dominant before that
sucks he didnt win and we got that 40 mins of crap final
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I feel like the event today showed some core problems with the format:
-Submission only and points formats don't merge well. It too often leads to people using active stalling until the points time. The "sub only" portion should be points for achieving dominant positions, like mount, back mount, and side control. After the halfway mark, takedowns, sweeps and reversals give points too. The guard pull penalty should be done away with until overtime.
-The high bar to get a takedown counted is absurd. When Rodolfo took Pena down 8+ times and never got a single point, it was obvious. Rodolfo literally pinned Pena for 10+ seconds at one point, and no points. Taking a guy down to the turtle for 3 seconds needs to count as a takedown, which would solve a lot of the issues here.
-Stalling calls felt extremely inconsistent. Compare the penalties Yuri got, vs the penalties Orlando got. Penalties also need to ramp from -1 to DQ over 3 or 4 seperate penalties.
And what's the point of giving both guys a penalty simultaneously if you won't ever DQ someone for stalling? To remind viewers how bad what they're watching is?
-Submission only and points formats don't merge well. It too often leads to people using active stalling until the points time. The "sub only" portion should be points for achieving dominant positions, like mount, back mount, and side control. After the halfway mark, takedowns, sweeps and reversals give points too. The guard pull penalty should be done away with until overtime.
-The high bar to get a takedown counted is absurd. When Rodolfo took Pena down 8+ times and never got a single point, it was obvious. Rodolfo literally pinned Pena for 10+ seconds at one point, and no points. Taking a guy down to the turtle for 3 seconds needs to count as a takedown, which would solve a lot of the issues here.
-Stalling calls felt extremely inconsistent. Compare the penalties Yuri got, vs the penalties Orlando got. Penalties also need to ramp from -1 to DQ over 3 or 4 seperate penalties.
And what's the point of giving both guys a penalty simultaneously if you won't ever DQ someone for stalling? To remind viewers how bad what they're watching is?
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It would have saved us of 10 minutes of keenan vs yuri bitch slapping around, It would certanly not have avoided dopp vs sanchez, that trasvesty was meant to happen anyways. I didnt get to see Rocha vs Calassans, didnt get to see any of the absolute, I had to take off, I couldve have chose to stayed another day, and I would certanly have chosen to do it if I was being entertained, but I had to literally drink cafe to stay awake.
I'm also frustrated, but I think our frustration is pointed at the wrong people. A single rule is not going to ruin a tournament. I think that apparently so many of these grapplers completely ran out of cardio (especially the ones that only competed in the Absolute division in day 2) is suspect. If Calasans and Rocha could pull guard, we probably would have got exactly what we saw at the start of the match - one guy laying in the others' guard, doing nothing.[/QUOTE]
a mediocre wrestler with 3 months of subgrappling is going to win the whole show, I dont know wtf this shit is anymore. In the previous rounds, you only have 5 minutes to sub the person, if not, you are done. 5 minutes isnt much time, but thing is, the person on top is not force to engage either. in the no points part, if one person desires to stay on his feet, no one can force him to not stay on his feet, stalling calls are too soft and is ridiculous the lack of penalties. If the wrestler makes t out of the no pounts part, he goes onto the points part, wtf is a bjj going to do? he is not a wrstler, nor will ever be as good as the wrestler on his feet, he has to go down, even if he takes the -1 looking for the submission, still the wrestler goes on rustam mode and its impossible to get sub. You can just chill on the outside and pretend to be trying to pass and nothing happens, nothing. no one will be forcing you to grapple.
So the result is you have bunch of ground specialist doing what they suck at, putting a horrible show and allowing mediocre athletes to come and steal the show. Calasans when on judo mode and won the whole thing, imagine throwing in there some real judo or freestyle guys, they'll laugh their ass off.
If you are doing a tournament where everyone can enter all styles and shit, why are you only penalizing one style.
If you are going to take a point for guard pulling, do the same shit when people freak out and disengange all the time, you have to engage! if the person sat on his ass and took the -1 the least you can do is try to grapple with him.
We need more marcelos in this life, adcc 2003 had some real wrestlers, marcelo pulled guard on all of them and subed them all, are you going to tell me that you rather watch orlando sanchez vs dopp than what marcelo did to those guys? Mike van Arsdale got choked out by him for fuck sakes, mikes wrestling was a trillion ligh years infront of what dopp or sanchez could offer.
I know not every one is marcelo, but I rather watch 15 minutes of footsies than 15 minutes of bitch slapping, at least footsies can actually do some damage specially when theres hh allow....
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this could be a good solution... or the fuck with the sub only part, and give points to mount and back nothing more, hell you may even give points to TDs.
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This this this and this! How often does a wrestling or judo match go straight from takedown to pin, which is essentially the criteria here? And in the few times it does happen it's in large part a result of one guy guarding against giving up points for standard takedowns. Loosening the narrow definition of a takedown would also incentivize more grappling because the lesser wrestler would more readily accept the negative point and go from there.
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This is right on certainly, except that even a great wrestler would still have trouble with takedowns only being scored if the opponent is on his back for 3 seconds. You'd see BJJ guys flop to turtle over and over until they get some reversal.
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Horrible event, very expensive and you cant even see all matches for the 40$.
The way they presented the absolute brackets was funny though with that piece of paper in front of the camera.
Basically watched 2 days of the best Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys solely display their wrestling skills, see boring stand up matches of 30 minutes no Jiu Jitsu and people celebrate 0-0 refs decisions like they just won mundials.
And i hated that ref with the glasses.
Ok tx bye.
The way they presented the absolute brackets was funny though with that piece of paper in front of the camera.
Basically watched 2 days of the best Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys solely display their wrestling skills, see boring stand up matches of 30 minutes no Jiu Jitsu and people celebrate 0-0 refs decisions like they just won mundials.
And i hated that ref with the glasses.
Ok tx bye.
