After 25 years watching NBA again - where to start?

[Sweater of AV]

Hey, my guess is you’re a similar age to me. I’m 46. Correct me, if I’m wrong. I saw the Bird/Magic era, the Jordan era…the Jordan ‘replacement’ era… and so on. I just think the game has grown. It’s a truly international game. The perimeter players especially, are longer and more skilled. When Jordan came in to the Association, 6-6 was a big, physical shooting guard. Now, there are 6-9 plus-elite scoring perimeter players. It’s really like the college game met the biggest athletes. So, I think, ‘ the 90’s are the best ‘ people are a little nuts. Not saying defense isn’t suffering but it’s way harder to guard a deep team that shoots well. The spacing is a big factor. When Jordan made all those 3’s against Portland..big deal…now that happens every night. Could Hakeem, Rodman, Jordan and Pippen still compete today?…yes!! They absolutely could, …but dominant…no.

The highest offensive ratings in history are completely dominated by this season. That's not a coincidence. When the rules change so much, the game is going to be completely different. Allow guys from earlier eras to have the freedom and space to shoot like today and you'll see the same thing.

This is the game today:



This is what would happen if you let someone like MJ loose today:

 

[RoastBeast]

If you like watching players spaz their way to the free throw line 10 times a game, you're in luck.

 

[Frank Kain]

The highest offensive ratings in history are completely dominated by this season. That's not a coincidence. When the rules change so much, the game is going to be completely different. Allow guys from earlier eras to have the freedom and space to shoot like today and you'll see the same thing.

This is the game today:



This is what would happen if you let someone like MJ loose today:

And… YOU need to keep in mind the rules were different in MJs game. Remember that call, ‘Illegal Defense?’ It forced one on one play. Hence the switching and pick and roll play of today. And helping make the lane less packed (and physical). MJ would’ve gotten murdered in the 70s. Cause teams could’ve clogged the lane and hammered him. Yep, even an amazing player like him. The officials helped Jordan too. He was on the line a lot. Look up his stats. How many times did he shoot a game..20 or more? How many guys average that today?


https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059318/joel-embiid

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1035/michael-jordan

 

[Sweater of AV]

And… YOU need to keep in mind the rules were different in MJs game. Remember that call, ‘Illegal Defense?’ It forced one on one play. Hence the switching and pick and roll play of today. And helping make the lane less packed (and physical). MJ would’ve gotten murdered in the 70s. Cause teams could’ve clogged the lane and hammered him. Yep, even an amazing player like him. The officials helped Jordan too. He was on the line a lot. Look up his stats. How many times did he shoot a game..20 or more? How many guys average that today?

No shit the rules were different. You're proving my point, son.

However, your claim that the 70s is the GOAT era is fine by me. You all have heard it here first. Thanks, Frank Can. Lol.

 

[Frank Kain]

No shit the rules were different. You're proving my point, son.

However, your claim that the 70s is the GOAT era is fine by me. You all have heard it here first. Thanks, Frank Can. Lol.

It was a brutal, physical game. Even guys like Moses Malone would tell you. You don’t know as much as you think about the NBA. I agree, that officiating has really changed the game..and not all players are officiated the same way. But to try to shit on players from the 70s to today is just silly. It’s absolutely hard to compare,…but Jordan wouldn’t lead the league in scoring 7 years in row in today’s NBA. He just wouldn’t. Guys like KD, Giannis and Luka would give him all he could handle. That’s just reality. Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Jerry Rice would be great players today but it would be different..sorry.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Moneyball has basically ruined the game. Just like in baseball, the numbers geeks took over.

They figured out that the 3-point shot is the best shot you could take in terms of risk/reward so basically if you can't get a dunk or layup then you'd better be shooting a 3. Anything mid range is considered bad.

They also made traveling basically legal. Or changed the definition so much that you can run a 100-yard dash without dribbling.

And James Harden sucks.

 

[Frank Kain]

Moneyball has basically ruined the game. Just like in baseball, the numbers geeks took over.

They figured out that the 3-point shot is the best shot you could take in terms of risk/reward so basically if you can't get a dunk or layup then you'd better be shooting a 3. Anything mid range is considered bad.

They also made traveling basically legal. Or changed the definition so much that you can run a 100-yard dash without dribbling.

And James Harden sucks.

James Harden sucks dick, no doubt but holy hell… how long you watched the NBA? Travel calls only applied to 2nd stringers in the 80s, onwards…

 

[Fedorgasm]

James Harden sucks dick, no doubt but holy hell… how long you watched the NBA? Travel calls only applied to 2nd stringers in the 80s, onwards…

I was a big fan in the 90's, and I watch games today occasionally and see egregious travels. Things I don't recall seeing in the 90's.

As I understand it they reinterpreted the the rule so now you're allowed a "gather" step or something like that.

 

[TeTe]

Expect to be watching a bunch of egotistical ball hogs that play zero defense. Not to mention expansion has watered down the league so you have ten stacked teams and the rest are trash.. coupled with the fact players act like GMs and pick and choose the teams that get stacked.

Look no further that all of the 60+ point games you've seen in the past week by some of these guys to see how defense is a thing of the past. Most players are softer than baby shit now and the referring doesn't help.

 

[SaiWa]

Moneyball has basically ruined the game. Just like in baseball, the numbers geeks took over.

They figured out that the 3-point shot is the best shot you could take in terms of risk/reward so basically if you can't get a dunk or layup then you'd better be shooting a 3. Anything mid range is considered bad.

They also made traveling basically legal. Or changed the definition so much that you can run a 100-yard dash without dribbling.

And James Harden sucks.

That goes back to hand checking though. IMO it is the most impactful rule change the NBA has implemented in the last 25 years. Efficiency of practically every offensive move/shot increased by a huge margin once hand checking was removed. With hand checking, moneyball might not point to 3-pointers being a better risk/reward shot.

 

[Cartiac]

And… YOU need to keep in mind the rules were different in MJs game. Remember that call, ‘Illegal Defense?’ It forced one on one play. Hence the switching and pick and roll play of today. And helping make the lane less packed (and physical). MJ would’ve gotten murdered in the 70s. Cause teams could’ve clogged the lane and hammered him. Yep, even an amazing player like him. The officials helped Jordan too. He was on the line a lot. Look up his stats. How many times did he shoot a game..20 or more? How many guys average that today?

You clearly didn't watch during MJs career. There was a very famous strategy named after him to do exactly what you claim would've murdered him but it only made him better.

 

[Frank Kain]

You clearly didn't watch during MJs career. There was a very famous strategy named after him to do exactly what you claim would've murdered him but it only made him better.

Oh, I was there. He was on the foul line relentlessly, and this even after he changed game to shooting more from the outside. And again, the stats don’t lie. Look up how many shots and free throws he shot. Illegal defense was a penalty to force 1 on 1 play…don’t hear that called anymore. The game certainly isn’t called the same but it wasn’t like the refs didn’t protect MJ. He was officiated differently than every other player. And it isn’t like his games aren’t on anymore. Go watch some of those old games. It isn’t the brawl ball it is often made out to be.

 

[Frank Kain]

Expect to be watching a bunch of egotistical ball hogs that play zero defense. Not to mention expansion has watered down the league so you have ten stacked teams and the rest are trash.. coupled with the fact players act like GMs and pick and choose the teams that get stacked.

Look no further that all of the 60+ point games you've seen in the past week by some of these guys to see how defense is a thing of the past. Most players are softer than baby shit now and the referring doesn't help.

I disagree with this completely. There’s really 20 good teams. Could you have pictured Milwaukee or Denver winning an NBA title in the 90’s? Uhh… F no… It was all big market teams. A handful of teams won the title for 30 years. They changed the max contracts so a team can only have 2 max players, that’s big. Plus, look how many great players are not American. Sometimes I wonder if the 90s fans are even basketball fans? I was there too… a great time that grew the game tremendously. But not the pinnacle people make it out to be.. the game goes on.

 

[TeTe]

I disagree with this completely. There’s really 20 good teams. Could you have pictured Milwaukee or Denver winning an NBA title in the 90’s? Uhh… F no… It was all big market teams. A handful of teams won the title for 30 years. They changed the max contracts so a team can only have 2 max players, that’s big. Plus, look how many great players are not American. Sometimes I wonder if the 90s fans are even basketball fans? I was there too… a great time that grew the game tremendously. But not the pinnacle people make it out to be.. the game goes on.

TBH, I'm not nearly a fan of the NBA as I was in the 90s. Of course I grew up in Chicago during the 90s so it's been difficult being a Bulls fan after 2000. Certainly doesn't help.

 

[Frank Kain]

TBH, I'm not nearly a fan of the NBA as I was in the 90s. Of course I grew up in Chicago during the 90s so it's been difficult being a Bulls fan after 2000. Certainly doesn't help.

And it’s OK, I get it. I went through a lull depression in the early 00s. I missed some of the stars but it was very ‘big market’ still. The Spurs helped me get through it. Duncan, Robinson… to Manu, and the French daredevil… really sweet to see them crash Lebron’s party. Dallas too, that might be my favorite final… to the see ‘big 3’ go down. I don’t hate on Lebron but to
HELL with rooting for him.

 

[kjg1672]

One big problem with the NBA is the same problem the league had in the 80s and 90s. There are too many games. Cut the season to 70 games and you would see a better product. There's also 0 chance of this happening.

 

[Frank Kain]

One big problem with the NBA is the same problem the league had in the 80s and 90s. There are too many games. Cut the season to 70 games and you would see a better product. There's also 0 chance of this happening.

Absolutely true. Makes you appreciate the big guys like Kareem, Moses, etc…used to travel commercial…lots of back to backs…did not miss many games. Jordan too…hardly ever missed a game.

 

[Madmick]

Start with Sunday Night Football because that will correct the disastrous course you are about to wander down.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

It was a brutal, physical game. Even guys like Moses Malone would tell you. You don’t know as much as you think about the NBA. I agree, that officiating has really changed the game..and not all players are officiated the same way. But to try to shit on players from the 70s to today is just silly. It’s absolutely hard to compare,…but Jordan wouldn’t lead the league in scoring 7 years in row in today’s NBA. He just wouldn’t. Guys like KD, Giannis and Luka would give him all he could handle. That’s just reality. Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Jerry Rice would be great players today but it would be different..sorry.

Lol, Rice would put up insane stats w/today's DPI, holding/contact calls. Brown's era was so early you can't even compare. It was almost a completely different game back then.

 

[Frank Kain]

Lol, Rice would put up insane stats w/today's DPI, holding/contact calls. Brown's era was so early you can't even compare. It was almost a completely different game back then.

Isn’t that the point of the thread? To me, saying Jordan would dominate today is the same as saying Rice would dominate today. The athletes are bigger but similarly skilled today. Rice was absolutely remarkable but so was Moss, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones. MJ averaged 35 points a game shooting 25 shots a game. Durant averaged 32 on 21 shots a game. Pretty similar… so then, the argument is Jordan’s era was a tougher era. While play in paint was more physical, the athletes, especially on the perimeter were smaller. Think KD couldn’t have put 55 on Dan Majerle in a Finals game?… please. MJ needed 37 shots and 18 free throws to get there. MJ, the best player of all time. But todays players are comparable. Let alone some of the idiots that suggest MJ would average 40 in todays NBA.